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UnderGround Forums >> UFC knew the .9 allowance for GSP was illegal


3/29/13 3:12 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

"If you think there is nothing wrong with a commission having secret rules that are not written anywhere"

What is the secret rule?

 


That they do not count the decimal at all despite it being a title fight where they are contractually obligated to NOT exceed 170lbs.

The UFC brass also said they WOULD allow Nick and GSP to cut more weight if they missed, which is a DIRECT contradiction to their own written rules.

3/29/13 3:14 PM
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orcus
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LNP, can you point me to the rules in the Nevada, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Brazil, and Quebec athletic commission regulations that define to what tolerance weights are to be given? That forbid or require rounding to take place, and to what degree?

Are all of those ACs shady? Or just Quebec's?

3/29/13 3:15 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

For the love of god, tell me the "secret rule".

Is it that they were going to round to the whole? Well, that's neither a "rule", nor "secret", since they did it at the previous event and 2 of the events before that. So please stop calling it a "secret rule".


But they didn't do it at other UFC events. They also didn't do it at an MMA event only months ago.

 

The fact that NO OTHER FIGHTER has come out and said they knew this existed, and numerous UFC fighters specifically said they were NEVER told about this, I can call it a "secret rule" if I want, thanks mom.

3/29/13 3:16 PM
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orcus
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"That they do not count the decimal at all despite it being a title fight where they are contractually obligated to NOT exceed 170lbs."

It's not a rule, and it's not secret. Try again.

"The UFC brass also said they WOULD allow Nick and GSP to cut more weight if they missed, which is a DIRECT contradiction to their own written rules."

The UFC brass is not the AC. Are you aware that the Washington regs say a guy who misses weight has 12 hours to lose it, and not one, as was given to Nate? Was that shady? Have you done the research to determine if all the other ACs allow this time in their regulations, since all of them DO give the time? 

3/29/13 3:18 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

LNP, can you point me to the rules in the Nevada, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Brazil, and Quebec athletic commission regulations that define to what tolerance weights are to be given? That forbid or require rounding to take place, and to what degree?

Are all of those ACs shady? Or just Quebec's?


Have any of those other commissions had UFC employees go tell fighters at the last possible moment before the weigh ins, that despite their scales going beyond the first decimal accuracy wise, they were not going to count that weight? How about any of those commissions having the UFC brass tell a fighter that they will secretly allow the two title fighters to cut extra weight behind closed doors even though their own rules specify that that is NOT allowed?

 

Nope? Okay thanks...

3/29/13 3:18 PM
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orcus
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

For the love of god, tell me the "secret rule".

Is it that they were going to round to the whole? Well, that's neither a "rule", nor "secret", since they did it at the previous event and 2 of the events before that. So please stop calling it a "secret rule".


But they didn't do it at other UFC events. They also didn't do it at an MMA event only months ago.

 

The fact that NO OTHER FIGHTER has come out and said they knew this existed, and numerous UFC fighters specifically said they were NEVER told about this, I can call it a "secret rule" if I want, thanks mom.


Again: Not a rule, official or unofficial. It's not in the regs, and as you yourself said, they round to varying degrees from event to event. 

Again: Not secret. The weighins are public. The fighter on the scale can see his number and he can hear what is announced. Since they are ALWAYS rounded down at UFC events there, AND in Vegas, AND in most other ACs, it's funny when fighters say they aren't aware that weights will be rounded down.

3/29/13 3:20 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/29/13 3:21 PM
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"Have any of those other commissions had UFC employees go tell fighters at the last possible moment before the weigh ins, that despite their scales going beyond the first decimal accuracy wise, they were not going to count that weight?"

So your problem is not that they round down, it's that they actually informed Nick about it? You'd have no problem if they kept it quiet?

You know the Nevada State Athletic Commission rounds down, right? Have you heard of them announcing it? Have any fighters come forward and said they knew about it? 

"How about any of those commissions having the UFC brass tell a fighter that they will secretly allow the two title fighters to cut extra weight behind closed doors even though their own rules specify that that is NOT allowed?"

I don't know if fighters have been told that they will be allowed time to make weight that the rules don't provide. Do you? In fact do you know of any UFC events, in any jurisdiction whatsoever, where any fighter was not allowed an extra hour to make weight?

3/29/13 3:20 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

"That they do not count the decimal at all despite it being a title fight where they are contractually obligated to NOT exceed 170lbs."

It's not a rule, and it's not secret. Try again.

"The UFC brass also said they WOULD allow Nick and GSP to cut more weight if they missed, which is a DIRECT contradiction to their own written rules."

The UFC brass is not the AC. Are you aware that the Washington regs say a guy who misses weight has 12 hours to lose it, and not one, as was given to Nate? Was that shady? Have you done the research to determine if all the other ACs allow this time in their regulations, since all of them DO give the time? 


"The UFC brass is not the AC"

 

You deflection sounds just like the UFC brass in those txt messages. Deny Deny Deny!!!!!!

 

So funny how you are 100% completely dicktucking the issue that they would have allowed either title fighter to cut more weight despite it being written in their rules that that is not allowed. You are very good at diversion and deflection. Gotta give you credit for that!

3/29/13 3:22 PM
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Winston Wolf
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pointless arguing with Orcus he will cut and paste you to death
3/29/13 3:22 PM
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Barbalos
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

LNP, can you point me to the rules in the Nevada, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Brazil, and Quebec athletic commission regulations that define to what tolerance weights are to be given? That forbid or require rounding to take place, and to what degree?

Are all of those ACs shady? Or just Quebec's?


Have any of those other commissions had UFC employees go tell fighters at the last possible moment before the weigh ins, that despite their scales going beyond the first decimal accuracy wise, they were not going to count that weight? How about any of those commissions having the UFC brass tell a fighter that they will secretly allow the two title fighters to cut extra weight behind closed doors even though their own rules specify that that is NOT allowed?

 

Nope? Okay thanks...


So the answer to orcus' question is: no, he can't. He can't tell you anything about it. All LnP can do is speculate wildly and fling inflammatory statements around. Right?
3/29/13 3:23 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 

"Have any of those other commissions had UFC employees go tell fighters at the last possible moment before the weigh ins, that despite their scales going beyond the first decimal accuracy wise, they were not going to count that weight?"

So your problem is not that they round down, it's that they actually informed Nick about it? You'd have no problem if they kept it quiet?

You know the Nevada State Athletic Commission rounds down, right? Have you heard of them announcing it? Have any fighters come forward and said they knew about it? 

"How about any of those commissions having the UFC brass tell a fighter that they will secretly allow the two title fighters to cut extra weight behind closed doors even though their own rules specify that that is NOT allowed?"

I don't know if fighters have been told that they will be allowed time to make weight that the rules don't provide. Do you? In fact do you know of any UFC events, in any jurisdiction whatsoever, where any fighter was not allowed an extra hour to make weight?


My god you are an annoying little twat. Stop trying to reword and deflect from what I am saying. It is childish.

 

Nevada clearly states their rules in writting. They don't have unwritten little secret rules to tell anyone about at the last moment...

 

Don't you think that EVERY fighter who cuts a lot of weight would LOVE to know they can save their bodies from cutting almost an entire extra pound? I know Hendricks would probably have LOVED to know that....but it is NOT written anywhere? Hmmmmmm

3/29/13 3:25 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Barbalos - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

LNP, can you point me to the rules in the Nevada, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Brazil, and Quebec athletic commission regulations that define to what tolerance weights are to be given? That forbid or require rounding to take place, and to what degree?

Are all of those ACs shady? Or just Quebec's?


Have any of those other commissions had UFC employees go tell fighters at the last possible moment before the weigh ins, that despite their scales going beyond the first decimal accuracy wise, they were not going to count that weight? How about any of those commissions having the UFC brass tell a fighter that they will secretly allow the two title fighters to cut extra weight behind closed doors even though their own rules specify that that is NOT allowed?

 

Nope? Okay thanks...


So the answer to orcus' question is: no, he can't. He can't tell you anything about it. All LnP can do is speculate wildly and fling inflammatory statements around. Right?

You're really slow. You should probably stop trying to engage in this debate. I don't NEED to sift through all those commissions exact verbage as they are not the ones picking and choosing when and where they want to use different regulations on weight.

3/29/13 3:26 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 03/29/13 3:27 PM
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"Nevada clearly states their rules in writting. They don't have unwritten little secret rules to tell anyone about at the last moment..."

There is nothing -- NOTHING -- in the Nevada rules stating that they will round weights down to the half.

"So funny how you are 100% completely dicktucking the issue that they would have allowed either title fighter to cut more weight"

Yes, according to the UFC guy -- not the AC -- they would have allowed extra time to make weight if it were missed. It is against the rules and if you're a douche who just likes to be a douche, you can complain about it. I doubt any fighter at all would complain about being given extra time, nor do I doubt any fighter would deliberately come in over so he could have that extra hour, given the fact that that means more time dehydrated and starving and less time recovering. Even crybaby Nick and his crybaby lawyer aren't saying they wish they hadn't been offered an extra hour. In any case, this didn't actually happen, so it's moot.

"I don't NEED to sift through all those commissions exact verbage as they are not the ones picking and choosing when and where they want to use different regulations on weight."

They're not? But California sometimes rounds and sometimes doesn't. Vegas does round now but I don't know if they always did. Neither has it in their regs, so are free to do what they want. So yes, they ALL are "picking and choosing" when and where to round and to what degree. How are you still in denial about this? This is a fact.

3/29/13 3:28 PM
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Barbalos
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Barbalos - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

LNP, can you point me to the rules in the Nevada, California, Illinois, Minnesota, Brazil, and Quebec athletic commission regulations that define to what tolerance weights are to be given? That forbid or require rounding to take place, and to what degree?

Are all of those ACs shady? Or just Quebec's?


Have any of those other commissions had UFC employees go tell fighters at the last possible moment before the weigh ins, that despite their scales going beyond the first decimal accuracy wise, they were not going to count that weight? How about any of those commissions having the UFC brass tell a fighter that they will secretly allow the two title fighters to cut extra weight behind closed doors even though their own rules specify that that is NOT allowed?

 

Nope? Okay thanks...


So the answer to orcus' question is: no, he can't. He can't tell you anything about it. All LnP can do is speculate wildly and fling inflammatory statements around. Right?

You're really slow. You should probably stop trying to engage in this debate. I don't NEED to sift through all those commissions exact verbage as they are not the ones picking and choosing when and where they want to use different regulations on weight.


I should stop trying because I don't see it the same as you? Nice "debate". Personally I don't think it matters much either way, and it is ridiculous to spout a ton of speculation when you don't know ANYTHING about the workings of the commission, or if you do you haven't said it here. You are the one making accusations of foul play; prove it.
3/29/13 3:29 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

For the love of god, tell me the "secret rule".

Is it that they were going to round to the whole? Well, that's neither a "rule", nor "secret", since they did it at the previous event and 2 of the events before that. So please stop calling it a "secret rule".


But they didn't do it at other UFC events. They also didn't do it at an MMA event only months ago.

 

The fact that NO OTHER FIGHTER has come out and said they knew this existed, and numerous UFC fighters specifically said they were NEVER told about this, I can call it a "secret rule" if I want, thanks mom.


Again: Not a rule, official or unofficial. It's not in the regs, and as you yourself said, they round to varying degrees from event to event. 

Again: Not secret. The weighins are public. The fighter on the scale can see his number and he can hear what is announced. Since they are ALWAYS rounded down at UFC events there, AND in Vegas, AND in most other ACs, it's funny when fighters say they aren't aware that weights will be rounded down.


Riiiiiight. It's not a rule because it's not in the regs....yet that's what they pick and choose to do when they want. Gotcha.

 

They don't "ALWAYS" round down in quebec, as you have already conceded. Sometimes they use the full decimal place, sometimes they round down, and sometimes they round up or down at the halfway mark.

3/29/13 3:32 PM
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orcus
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"Riiiiiight. It's not a rule because it's not in the regs."

Yessssss. You see, that's what a "rule" is. Do you get it now? There are two types of rules, official and unofficial. An official rule is officially recorded in the regulations -- the tolerance of the weights is not. An unofficial rule is one that is always followed despite not being in the regulations -- you yourself have said the tolerance of the weights is not.

lol @ you still arguing it's a "rule"! What is the matter with you?

"They don't "ALWAYS" round down in quebec, as you have already conceded."

No, they DO always round down in UFC events in Quebec.

"sometimes they round up or down at the halfway mark."

Source for them or ANY a.c. EVER rounding up? NSAC does not, we know that. 

 

3/29/13 3:34 PM
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MrMead
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Orcus is a fucking moran. Phone Post
3/29/13 3:36 PM
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Barbalos
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orcus - 

"Riiiiiight. It's not a rule because it's not in the regs."

Yessssss. You see, that's what a "rule" is. Do you get it now? There are two types of rules, official and unofficial. An official rule is officially recorded in the regulations -- the tolerance of the weights is not. An unofficial rule is one that is always followed despite not being in the regulations -- you yourself have said the tolerance of the weights is not.

lol @ you still arguing it's a "rule"! What is the matter with you?

"They don't "ALWAYS" round down in quebec, as you have already conceded."

No, they DO always round down in UFC events in Quebec.

"sometimes they round up or down at the halfway mark."

Source for them or ANY a.c. EVER rounding up? NSAC does not, we know that. 

 


Rounding up? LOL. WTF is this guy talking about??
3/29/13 3:40 PM
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orcus
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I think he's high or something. Nothing he's saying makes sense. 

3/29/13 3:41 PM
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Barbalos
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He's definitely got some kind of agenda here. Maybe an anti UFC guy.
3/29/13 3:57 PM
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Lazer MMA
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"There are obvious inconsistencies here in the stories of both the commission and the UFC. As Tweedale pointed out, the UFC very well could have been in a bad position where the commission changed something at the last minute and they were left with no choice but to go along with it, but it's still strange to see Mersch tell Tweedale "I don't know what you're talking about" when it was absolutely a conversation he held."

"This meant, simply, that 170.9 would be considered the same thing as 170, a rule of which the UFC was clearly unaware as they inquired why they were not informed of this prior to this close to the weigh-in. This is very strange given that title fights have always required a fighter to come in exactly at or below the contracted weight, in this case 170."

"The Quebec commission also claimed that this was standard practice for them, despite a history that certainly suggests otherwise"

OP's source

So at the end of the day, this is some shady shit that happened. It appears nothing can be done to correct this injustice. I don't like the legal challenges here because of jurisdiction issues.
3/29/13 3:58 PM
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gorgesjorj
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dakotajudo - 
gorgesjorj - Dan Miller went from 172 to 171 by removing his underwear. I'm pretty sure GSP woulda been ok with whatever he was wearing. It's not like he went up there with a leaf covering him up.

GG
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This, in a way, confirms that decimal places have been dropped in the past.

Do you really think underwear weighs a pound? I routinely weigh myself with and without; I don't have anything that weighs more than a few ounces.

However, consider, that Miller weighed just over 172, say 172.1. When he removed his underwear (at roughly 3 ounces), the scale read 171.9.

His official weight, dropping the least significant digit, would be reported as 172, then 171.

It's a waste of time considering what might've happened vs. what did happen. They said 172 on the first try and 171 on the second. Good enough for me. Good enough for all three parties involved. I don't recall Mein and his camp in an uproar while on stage.

I think the point here should be made on the usage of the decimal point going forward, if anything. And even that should be listed around #500 on the "things to fix in this sport to make it better" file.

GG
3/29/13 3:58 PM
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lilhef517
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big diaz fan.... but he needs to stop the whining. I despise GSP but he handled diaz regardless of all these childish excuses Phone Post
3/29/13 4:00 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Edited: 03/29/13 4:01 PM
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orcus - 

 

"They don't "ALWAYS" round down in quebec, as you have already conceded."

No, they DO always round down in UFC events in Quebec.

 

 

 


No, they don't. UFC 124 used decimals. Sorry. They rounded UP or DOWN at the halfway mark.

If over .5 it goes up to the next number. Chekc the weigh ins for UFC 124.

 

3/29/13 4:05 PM
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bimmer1
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I think you could let diaz weigh 180 and the outcome would be the same. GSP dominates again. Not a GSP fan either Phone Post

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