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UnderGround Forums >> UFC knew the .9 allowance for GSP was illegal


3/29/13 7:02 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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orcus - 

Oh...like I said, I didn't think I shoud post his exact words unless he said it was okay, so I've paraphrased. But here you go, here is his exact quote:

ME: Hello Mr. Kizer; I'm sure you are aware of the uproar over the Quebec AC "dropping decimals" in fighter weighins at the last UFC event. I notice that there are no decimals announced or recorded for UFC events held in Las Vegas, either. For example, at UFC 156, Frank Edgar's official weight was announced and recorded as 144, while Jose Aldo's was 145. Are these simply rounded off? Are they rounded up, down, or to the nearest whole number? If the balance scale read 145 and one notch -- i.e.. 145 and 2oz for Aldo, would it be announced and recorded as 145 and remain a title fight?

 
KK: To be consistent with non-digital scales, I usually round-down to the nearest half-pound.  As digital scales go by .2 pound increments, 170.0, 170.2 and 170.4 would be 170, and 170.6 and 170.8 would be 170.5.
 
"and you are so off reality, its not even worth arguing with you any more...my cod..."
 
lol, I'm off reality even though I'm the only one posting facts. You're right thought, it's not worth arguing with me, because you've been proven wrong on all counts and have nothing to stand on whatsoever.
 

you are not posting facts..u are posting fragments of reality from a deranged mind...

lets do a simple example...

is there a difference between the way the Quebec and Nevada AC's rules operate with respect to weighins? yes or no?

Do they both round down? Yes or no?

Do the regulations on either AC state they can or do? Yes or no? Phone Post

never answer a question with a question

3/29/13 7:04 PM
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"Now, since you've made it clear you are solely interested in the principle of this affair, is there a difference in principle between the way the Quebec and Nevada AC's rules operate with respect to weighins? Yes or no? If yes, what is the difference in principle?"

yes. the difference is quebec's rules provide for more leniency with respect to making weight.

also, i think both AC's should codify whatever practice they are using in the code...that way everyone is on notice and there is consistency, which is important for any type of operation....

3/29/13 7:07 PM
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also, i did not make it clear i am solely interested in the principle - whatever that means

3/29/13 7:07 PM
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orcus
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"what is the better practice - codifying important and quantifiable rules in the code for all to see..or keeping them off the record?"

Codify them. So why haven't you been up in arms about this for the last several years? Because, despite seeing weighin after weighin at the vast majority of UFC events with nice rounded numbers, neither you nor any fighter or manager has ever picked up on it, including the fighters standing on the scale and looking at the number and hearing the official announce a rounded down number different from that right in front of them?

Or is it because you needed a crybaby like Nick Diaz to complain about it before you felt the call to arms?

"if a government org has a written rule - all things being equal is it ok for the government org to determine to permit someone to violate that rule, even if that someone ultimately doesnt violate the rule?"

Is it "okay" to? As far as I'm concerned, sure, if it's a rule whose enforcement is harmful rather than beneficial.

"is 170.1 > 170?"

It is. Luckily in an org that rounds to a whole number, or even to a half as in Nevada, it is impossible for a fighter to weigh 170.1, so your question is 100% moot.

One of the funniest things about this and how everyone is bleating "it's the principle, rules are rules" regarding the extra hour to make weight is that these are in most cases the same people ranting and raving about Nick being suspended for his positive drug tests for marijuana.

3/29/13 7:08 PM
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10er
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Fucking bored of the petty, whiney shit from the Diaz camp. What's their goal here? Phone Post
3/29/13 7:09 PM
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"

Codify them. So why haven't you been up in arms about this for the last several years? Because, despite seeing weighin after weighin at the vast majority of UFC events with nice rounded numbers, neither you nor any fighter or manager has ever picked up on it, including the fighters standing on the scale and looking at the number and hearing the official announce a rounded down number different from that right in front of them?

Or is it because you needed a crybaby like Nick Diaz to complain about it before you felt the call to arms?"

 

i wasnt up in arms because i didnt realize they had this haphazard practice..the same as most other people, and apparently fighters..and therein lies the rub my child..if its not cofidied in writing, its hard for people to know what the rule is

3/29/13 7:10 PM
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"Is it "okay" to? As far as I'm concerned, sure, if it's a rule whose enforcement is harmful rather than beneficial."

hmmmm...why would they have a rule that if enforced, is harmful...in that case, the rule should be modified so it doesnt have such an absurd result

3/29/13 7:11 PM
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orcus
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"also, i did not make it clear i am solely interested in the principle - whatever that means"

You've repeatedly said it's the principle of "rules are rules" that is your interest here, because of course you don't really like Nick or have anything against GSP, nothing in the fight would have been different, and rules like disallowing extra time to make weight aren't even desirable or beneficial to the fans, the promoter, or even the fighters.

"yes. the difference is quebec's rules provide for more leniency with respect to making weight."

They both round down weights. Neither uses the number on the scale as the official weight, and they both only round down, never up. In the eyes of both commissions, a fighter within their tolerance "is" that rounded down weight regardless of what the full number on the scale is, and this satisfies the AC's weight limit requirements even in title fights.

"also, i think both AC's should codify whatever practice they are using in the code...that way everyone is on notice and there is consistency, which is important for any type of operation...."

Ok, but change that from "both" to "all" because as far as I know none of them codify their actual weigh-in tolerances.

3/29/13 7:12 PM
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"It is. Luckily in an org that rounds to a whole number, or even to a half as in Nevada, it is impossible for a fighter to weigh 170.1, so your question is 100% moot."

no my child..my question isnt moot. from a layperson, or even attorneys perspective..you read a UFC bout agreement and you even go as far as reading the codified rules of the AC and you will think that 170.1 means you are overweight. that is problematic.

"One of the funniest things about this and how everyone is bleating "it's the principle, rules are rules" regarding the extra hour to make weight is that these are in most cases the same people ranting and raving about Nick being suspended for his positive drug tests for marijuana."

 

there is a big difffernce between a citizen violating a rule and the legislator, arbiter and executive of the rule violating the rule

3/29/13 7:13 PM
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"You've repeatedly said it's the principle of "rules are rules" that is your interest here, because of course you don't really like Nick or have anything against GSP, nothing in the fight would have been different, and rules like disallowing extra time to make weight aren't even desirable or beneficial to the fans, the promoter, or even the fighters."

 

show me where i repeatedly said its the principle of "rules are rules"...

3/29/13 7:14 PM
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"They both round down weights. Neither uses the number on the scale as the official weight, and they both only round down, never up. In the eyes of both commissions, a fighter within their tolerance "is" that rounded down weight regardless of what the full number on the scale is, and this satisfies the AC's weight limit requirements even in title fights."

its correct to say they both round down weights..but that is a very silly and narrow view of things. as a practical matter, there is a substantive difference in kind between the way they treat weighins...why dont you ask mr. kizer and im sure he will confirm

3/29/13 7:16 PM
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"Ok, but change that from "both" to "all" because as far as I know none of them codify their actual weigh-in tolerances."

no, not all...you havent proven to me that ALL round down..just to be clear i think any commission that rounds weights should codify the practice...if they dont round down, no need to amend the rules because the plain interpretation would apply 170.1>170

3/29/13 7:16 PM
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orcus
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"i wasnt up in arms because i didnt realize they had this haphazard practice..the same as most other people, and apparently fighters..and therein lies the rub my child..if its not cofidied in writing, its hard for people to know what the rule is"

How did you not realize it? Have you ever watched a weighin video or seen weighin results? 

If it incenses you so much when they do things that aren't in the regs, or that are against the regs, it seems extraordinarily odd to me that you haven't even read the regs -- and the same goes for Diaz and his camp, who hadn't read the regulations in Washington (to know that Nate had to make weight on the dot) OR in Quebec (to know that rounding the weights was not "illegal").

 

3/29/13 7:20 PM
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guardbr8kr
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GSP weighed 170 with his shorts on , fuck sticks.

3/29/13 7:20 PM
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"

How did you not realize it? Have you ever watched a weighin video or seen weighin results? 

If it incenses you so much when they do things that aren't in the regs, or that are against the regs, it seems extraordinarily odd to me that you haven't even read the regs -- and the same goes for Diaz and his camp, who hadn't read the regulations in Washington (to know that Nate had to make weight on the dot) OR in Quebec (to know that rounding the weights was not "illegal")."

 

i never really focused on whether they are rounding or what they were doing with decimals...in other words, i am not a freak...sorry...and apparently there are many others in the same boat including apparently everyone in the media and many high level fighters...its odd that the UFC rep had to tell diaz in the first place right? since, he of course should have known

3/29/13 7:21 PM
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orcus
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"no my child..my question isnt moot. from a layperson, or even attorneys perspective..you read a UFC bout agreement and you even go as far as reading the codified rules of the AC and you will think that 170.1 means you are overweight. that is problematic."

No my child....what you seem hopelessly unable to comprehend no matter how patiently it is explained to you is that in the eyes of the AC a fighter on a scale that says 170.1 does not weigh 170.1, he weighs 170.

"show me where i repeatedly said its the principle of "rules are rules"..."

Okay, so what exactly do you mean when you say they shouldn't do anything against the rules, and everything they do should be in the rules? What kind of a douche would not file that under "rules are rules"?

"its correct to say they both round down weights..but that is a very silly and narrow view of things. as a practical matter, there is a substantive difference in kind between the way they treat weighins...why dont you ask mr. kizer and im sure he will confirm"

lol, you're officially phoning it in now. 

"no, not all...you havent proven to me that ALL round down..just to be clear i think any commission that rounds weights should codify the practice...if they dont round down, no need to amend the rules because the plain interpretation would apply 170.1>170"

Find me a commission that codifies their tolerances.

3/29/13 7:22 PM
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Holy shit....  I know it's a common phrase around here, but Goku has gone full retard.  I don't even think he knows what he's trying to argue at this point.


its ok son..when you grow up, you will be able to follow the conversations of adults better

3/29/13 7:23 PM
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"No my child....what you seem hopelessly unable to comprehend no matter how patiently it is explained to you is that in the eyes of the AC a fighter on a scale that says 170.1 does not weigh 170.1, he weighs 170."

 

youre not getting it...the whole issue is that the fighters and the general public should be on notice of what the AC sees..if they want to round down..fine...put it in writing so people are on notice...why do you refuse to concede this?

3/29/13 7:23 PM
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RazorMMA
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Holy hell, I was having this horrible dream that the gsp weight debate was still,,an,,,,issue,,,,,,oh, never mind. Phone Post 3.0
3/29/13 7:24 PM
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guardbr8kr
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you cock fuckers better not make me go anti-amurikkkan on this fuckin thread.
3/29/13 7:24 PM
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orcus
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"i never really focused on whether they are rounding or what they were doing with decimals...in other words, i am not a freak...sorry...and apparently there are many others in the same boat including apparently everyone in the media and many high level fighters"

Yes, many high level fighters...guys like Condit and Koscheck, who stand on the scale, see the number on it, hear the number announced which is lower and rounder than the number they see...and still can't quite figure out what is going on and act surprised later.

"...its odd that the UFC rep had to tell diaz in the first place right? since, he of course should have known"

No, it's not even remotely odd, because at Team Gracie's immediately previous fight, Nate Diaz came in overweight (due to of course not reading the rules, goes to show the value of putting it in the regs), and his camp got in a tizzy and acted like it was bullshit, and then he had to go cut weight again. So no, it's not odd that in their next title fight the UFC would go out of their way to explain the rules to them and reassure them they didn't have to worry about that happening this time. 

3/29/13 7:27 PM
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Barbalos
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 

"No my child....what you seem hopelessly unable to comprehend no matter how patiently it is explained to you is that in the eyes of the AC a fighter on a scale that says 170.1 does not weigh 170.1, he weighs 170."

 

youre not getting it...the whole issue is that the fighters and the general public should be on notice of what the AC sees..if they want to round down..fine...put it in writing so people are on notice...why do you refuse to concede this?


How much looking into the AC's rules have you done? Are you just playing devil's advocate, or rather, trolling? You've done NONE from what I can read here. If you're not even going to expend effort to investigate what you claim should be available, why are you talking?
3/29/13 7:29 PM
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orcus
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"youre not getting it...the whole issue is that the fighters and the general public should be on notice of what the AC sees..if they want to round down..fine...put it in writing so people are on notice...why do you refuse to concede this?"

I've said about a billion times I am certainly all for putting everything down in writing.

However that's a far cry from pissing my pants to "find out" something they've been doing in full public view for years, that not one person has ever complained about, that is beneficial to everyone...until we run into the one guy who complains loudly about everything, every step of the way, before and after this and every fight.

3/29/13 7:31 PM
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orcus
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Barbalos - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - 

"No my child....what you seem hopelessly unable to comprehend no matter how patiently it is explained to you is that in the eyes of the AC a fighter on a scale that says 170.1 does not weigh 170.1, he weighs 170."

 

youre not getting it...the whole issue is that the fighters and the general public should be on notice of what the AC sees..if they want to round down..fine...put it in writing so people are on notice...why do you refuse to concede this?


How much looking into the AC's rules have you done? Are you just playing devil's advocate, or rather, trolling? You've done NONE from what I can read here. If you're not even going to expend effort to investigate what you claim should be available, why are you talking?

He's trolling, that's all he does. This is the guy who will say with a straight face that a fighter is "ducking" another even if he signs to fight him within a week of the fight ever being announced as a potential matchup, then fights him on the scheduled date and destroys him.

He's arguing for page after page about the fine points of regulations and policies without looking up a SINGLE regulation from any AC. He demands to know what Kizer said but won't email him or even look at the NSAC website. 

It's a clear and blatant troll, but there are enough Diaz nuthuggers and anti-Zuffa crackpots here that he is never voted down as often as he should be, and so he keeps on truckin'.

3/29/13 7:47 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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guardbr8kr - GSP weighed 170 with his shorts on , fuck sticks.


1. You don't know what GSP's actual weight was on the scale, only what the commission guy announced.

 

2. Those exact shorts weigh around .3lbs.  You and others love to pretend that fighters shorts are made of iron or something.


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