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UnderGround Forums >> UFC knew the .9 allowance for GSP was illegal


3/30/13 10:21 AM
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Standup29
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deadlyonetwo3 - People yelling and screaming, "oh you lost Diaz!" Etc etc are completely missing the point. Don't you get that a champion has apparently missed weight for a title fight (which in boxing would have you automatically stripped of your title) and was given a pound allowance on the scales!!!!!! This is a serious issue in a competitive sport where guys are shedding so much weight etc and this needs to be seriously scrutinized. These commissions can't be allowed to make up rules like this as they go. Missing weight on a title fight is serious and everyone is acting like its all about excuses! It's not! Pay attention to the ISSUE not the fighter making the petition please. Phone Post 3.0
But the issue is GSP did make weight. Because it is possi to weigh 170.9 and still technically make weight does not mean GSP in fact did weigh in at that. We don't know what he weighed in at and honestly if they were this concerned why didn't they ask to see the scale while he weighed in. Wouldn't that have been the smart thing to do? Especially if they thought he would be .9 pounds over.

Can we not admit the Diaz camp should have asked to view the scale during the weigh in or ask an unbiased person to view it or ask for the camera to record what it was for review immediately after the official weigh ins? Phone Post
3/30/13 10:25 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Edited: 03/30/13 10:41 AM
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Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????

3/30/13 10:26 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Shill* not school Phone Post
3/30/13 10:37 AM
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Lazer MMA
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Edited: 03/30/13 10:37 AM
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Having been proven to have lied is shady in and of itself.

Yes per my post in another thread, now ask yourself why they would feel the need to lie?

I guess it's time to make sure EVERYWHERE that 170 = 170.0 moving forward.
3/30/13 10:48 AM
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Standup29
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku - You think he's really going to rehydrate sooner so he can get an extra .9 lbs? How easy do u think it is to measure that? Also wouldn't it have been better to tell him before he started cutting? If he was going to tell him, he should have told him then. Phone Post 3.0
Again he shouldn't have said anything. It would have been better for the Diaz camp to ask how they interpret the decimal.

For example, in Nevada they round 170.4 down to 170 and 170.5 up to 171. What is the practice here?

I would think they would ask Something as in their last title fight out of CG camp, Nate thought he could weigh in at 171.

MM shouldn't have tried to do them or anyone any favors. That was wrong period. I have zero problem with him being punished for it. Phone Post
3/30/13 10:52 AM
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Standup29
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Lazer MMA -
Having been proven to have lied is shady in and of itself.

Yes per my post in another thread, now ask yourself why they would feel the need to lie?

I guess it's time to make sure EVERYWHERE that 170 = 170.0 moving forward.
Or put it in their rules and regulations exactly how they recognize the decimal. If they round, put it in the rules. Or ensure the bout agreement says 170.0 not 170. Phone Post
3/30/13 11:02 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Standup29 - 
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - You think he's really going to rehydrate sooner so he can get an extra .9 lbs? How easy do u think it is to measure that? Also wouldn't it have been better to tell him before he started cutting? If he was going to tell him, he should have told him then. Phone Post 3.0
Again he shouldn't have said anything. It would have been better for the Diaz camp to ask how they interpret the decimal.

For example, in Nevada they round 170.4 down to 170 and 170.5 up to 171. What is the practice here?

I would think they would ask Something as in their last title fight out of CG camp, Nate thought he could weigh in at 171.

MM shouldn't have tried to do them or anyone any favors. That was wrong period. I have zero problem with him being punished for it. Phone Post

So ridiculous to try and pretend that MM was doing Diaz and co a "favor".

 

Answer the question:

 

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages????? 

3/30/13 11:28 AM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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same reason they REFUSE to make any formal statement despite all the hoopla...they are hoping this all just goes away

3/30/13 11:34 AM
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Winston Wolf
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170.9 rounds to 171 not 170.5 or 170.0 A few paid posters for sure
3/30/13 1:16 PM
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orcus
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????


Which quote from him says that?

I think he was brusque and weird in that conversation, but nothing he said and no way he acted can change the fact that absolutely no rule was broken that we are aware of.

 

3/30/13 1:18 PM
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Masakyst
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Winston Wolf - 170.9 rounds to 171 not 170.5 or 170.0 A few paid posters for sure

Paid by who, math teachers?

There is more than one way to round numbers.
3/30/13 1:23 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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orcus - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????


Which quote from him says that?

I think he was brusque and weird in that conversation, but nothing he said and no way he acted can change the fact that absolutely no rule was broken that we are aware of.

 


ummm...for real? i know you have a hard time grasping reality, but...REALLY?

look at the first fucking thing he says:

 

JDT: "Hi Mike. Nick is curious about the .9 pound allowance at today's weigh-in for his championship bout. He doesn't want to be a nuisance about this, but he's a bit confused. Can you shed any light?"

MM: "I don't know what you're talking about. All parties weighed in appropriately according [to] the Quebec Commission."

 

obviously, if there was no conspiracy...no shadiness...nothing wrong going on...like a normal human being, he would have simply said, quebec drops the decimals, as i already told nick...and then his second response immediately turns very defensive and emotional..its like when i catch my wife in a lie..its embarrassing..you know you are caught red handed, so you start lashing out

 

not ONCE does he admit that 1) they drop the decimals or 2) that he talked to nick at all about the weighin...

 

cmon orcus...take your meds before you post dawg

3/30/13 1:30 PM
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orcus
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CRMartin11 - 
clown makeup - 

The UFC controls the show where ever they may be despite Dana proclaiming they are the most heavily regulated sport in the history of sports.

New Jersey set the course for Unified Rules:

"The rules adopted by the NJSACB have become the de facto standard set of rules for professional mixed martial arts across North America. All state, provincial, & municipal athletic commissions that regulate mixed martial arts have assimilated these rules into their existing  competition rules and statutes. For a promotion to hold mixed martial arts events in a sanctioned venue, the promotion must abide by the commission's body of rules"

What.the UFC touts on its website as being "the rules":

"In non-championship fights, there shall be allowed a 1 pound weigh allowance. In championship fights, the participants must weigh no more than that permitted for the relevant weight division"

in reality amount to a "hill of beans" because as recent as of Tuesday this week the de facto standardizer of "the rules" New Jersey informed thusly:

"In the state of New Jersey, which features another influential athletic commission, common practice includes making exact weight (or less) for championship bouts.

Nick Lembo, counsel for the New Jersey Athletic Control Board, said on Tuesday that his agency “will allow one pound over on a contract weight, unless the promoter denies such allowance. However, the caveat is that most promoters want major title fights to be dead-on weight. Thus, 170 becomes exactly 170 or less.”

In previous UFC events in the state of New Jersey, UFC officials did not request a one-pound allowance for championship bouts, added Lembo"

What that means is, if and when it suits the UFC, they can "bend the rules" and request or better "block" the standard rules i.e. in Montreal if they do stick to the stated rules, the UFC can say for this fight we "deny such allowance".

In the case of GSP vs Diaz in fear of imminent failure owing to GSP being ill and being advised to continue to retain fluids, the UFC approached the Quebec Commission and denied absolute adherence to the Unified Rules and sought application of the rounding down or the over by 1. lbs rule for non-title fights plus the additional hour to reduce the weight normally reserved for non-title fights.

This will be the reason why one sees "the rules" being inconsistantly applied across North America. The UFC has the right as the promoter to deny application of the Unified Rules as they see fit.
 

 

This is spot on. Lets see Orcus troll his way out of this. This is the main reason the UFC is avoiding this topic like the plague, because they are to blame.

Not sure what you think you're seeing here.

A commission rounding 170.9 down to 170 has absolutely nothing to do with any "1lb allowance". Just like the NSAC *routinely* rounding down 170.4 to 170 has absolutely nothing to do with a "1/2 lb allowance" or any request from the promoter. 

Quebec would not have given GSP a 1lb allowance -- in other words, if he weighed 171 it would not be a title fight. Since they were rounding off decimals, he would either be 170 -- and thus perfectly meet the requirement -- or be 171, and thus not meet the requirement.

Quebec DOES give a 1lb allowance in non-title fights just like everyone else. For example Alan Belcher weighed 186 for a middleweight fight.  Since they round down, the number on the scale could have been anywhere from 186.0 to 186.9. The fight proceeded as normal with no fines.

There has never been a UFC title fight with one competitor officially weighing over the weight class limit, therefore there has never been a UFC title fight with a 1lb allowance, therefore there has never been a UFC title fight where the UFC "blocked the standard rules" as clown laughably claimed.

This concept seems utterly incomprehensible to so many of you that it's staggering. It's difficult to debate with people who can't seem to wrap their minds around simple concepts.

3/30/13 1:42 PM
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orcus
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JDT: "Hi Mike. Nick is curious about the .9 pound allowance at today's weigh-in for his championship bout. He doesn't want to be a nuisance about this, but he's a bit confused. Can you shed any light?"

MM: "I don't know what you're talking about. All parties weighed in appropriately according [to] the Quebec Commission."

 

Not sure how you think this is some kind of false denial.

There was no .9lb allowance given, period. A .9lb allowance would mean that you could have a title fight with official weight of 170.9. No such thing happened here, was suggested might happen here, or even COULD happen here, for the obvious reason that since they round down the decimals, an official weight of 170.9 is literally impossible.

Also, Tweedale's question makes it sound like GSP actually WAS given a .9lb allowance at the weighin, which was not the case in ANY sense, as far as we or Mersch know -- as far as any of us know, GSP weighed 170.0 on the scale, and in any case, as his offiical weight was 170, no .9 allowance was needed, given, or even possible.

"not ONCE does he admit that 1) they drop the decimals or 2) that he talked to nick at all about the weighin..."

Like I said, I'm not saying his manner wasn't dismissive and off-putting. However, look who he's dealing with. He was quite right to refer Tweedale to the AC with any questions. 

But this just goes to show the desperate clinging of you guys to this issue. It makes absolutely no difference how weird Mersch acted or if he denied knowing anything about rounding 170.9 to 170 -- it doesn't change the fact that rounding 170.9 to 170, even in a title fight, is absolutely not against any rule, and rounding even in title fights is done in most ACs, including the biggest one in the country.

You idiots have nothing left to stand on, so now all you can do is whine about how a UFC exec acted in some texts to some douchebag lawyer. Guess what, no matter what he said or how he acted is going to magically make rounding the weight down against any rule.

3/30/13 1:47 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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orcus - 

JDT: "Hi Mike. Nick is curious about the .9 pound allowance at today's weigh-in for his championship bout. He doesn't want to be a nuisance about this, but he's a bit confused. Can you shed any light?"

MM: "I don't know what you're talking about. All parties weighed in appropriately according [to] the Quebec Commission."

 

Not sure how you think this is some kind of false denial.

There was no .9lb allowance given, period. A .9lb allowance would mean that you could have a title fight with official weight of 170.9. No such thing happened here, was suggested might happen here, or even COULD happen here, for the obvious reason that since they round down the decimals, an official weight of 170.9 is literally impossible.

Also, Tweedale's question makes it sound like GSP actually WAS given a .9lb allowance at the weighin, which was not the case in ANY sense, as far as we or Mersch know -- as far as any of us know, GSP weighed 170.0 on the scale, and in any case, as his offiical weight was 170, no .9 allowance was needed, given, or even possible.

"not ONCE does he admit that 1) they drop the decimals or 2) that he talked to nick at all about the weighin..."

Like I said, I'm not saying his manner wasn't dismissive and off-putting. However, look who he's dealing with. He was quite right to refer Tweedale to the AC with any questions. 

But this just goes to show the desperate clinging of you guys to this issue. It makes absolutely no difference how weird Mersch acted or if he denied knowing anything about rounding 170.9 to 170 -- it doesn't change the fact that rounding 170.9 to 170, even in a title fight, is absolutely not against any rule, and rounding even in title fights is done in most ACs, including the biggest one in the country.

You idiots have nothing left to stand on, so now all you can do is whine about how a UFC exec acted in some texts to some douchebag lawyer. Guess what, no matter what he said or how he acted is going to magically make rounding the weight down against any rule.


how much does zuffa pay you? really? noone can be this removed from reality.

again, lets make it very very simple for you.

were they going to allow gsp and/or diaz weigh in at 170.9?

if so, was this communicated by mersch to diaz?

if so, wouldn't it seem very rational to just reiterate that to nick's lawyer when he asked if everything was on the up n up?

3/30/13 1:50 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????


Which quote from him says that?

I think he was brusque and weird in that conversation, but nothing he said and no way he acted can change the fact that absolutely no rule was broken that we are aware of.

 


Which quote?

 

"I don't know what you're talking about" more than once.

 

You still didn't actually answer the question. If there was nothing at all suspect or shady about what MM told the Diaz camp, why did he LIE and flat out deny that he even had the conversation at all???

3/30/13 1:50 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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also, show your proof that most ACs round .9 down....ill wait...

3/30/13 1:53 PM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

Not a single school or defender of what went on has been able to answer this:

If there was absolutely nothing suspect/shady going on, why did the UFC official LIE and flat out deny that he said anything at all to Diaz camp in those text messages?????


Which quote from him says that?

I think he was brusque and weird in that conversation, but nothing he said and no way he acted can change the fact that absolutely no rule was broken that we are aware of.

 


Which quote?

 

"I don't know what you're talking about" more than once.

 

You still didn't actually answer the question. If there was nothing at all suspect or shady about what MM told the Diaz camp, why did he LIE and flat out deny that he even had the conversation at all???


hes not answering the question because he knows there is no legitimate answer..no matter how hard he tries to rack his mind for a spin...

 

he will just reiterate over and over again about how they broke no rules

3/30/13 1:56 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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LETMEBANGBRO - 
lastcall - I have no doubt the shorts GSP kept on weighed more than .9 lbs. Calm down

There is no room for actual facts in this debate.

whats that have to do with the issue at hand?
and besides that,is it a fact that those shorts weighed more than .9?

i think gsp wins no matter what weight,and im a fan of both nick and gsp.but that has nothing to do with the real issues going here.
3/30/13 2:05 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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DirtehSneakehs - 
Barbalos - His lawyer is trolling MM here. "Nick's not going to make an issue of it". UH, then what is he doing here? Quit crying camp Caesar, you lost fair and square, and completely. The only people who give a shit about this at this point is camp Gracie CryJitsu and diaz ball slobberers.
Why can't this about a fucking rule that may have been bent more than once and not about Nick Diaz? You assholes talk about 'balls' and "Diaz" more than a Diaz fan! Phone Post

3/30/13 2:07 PM
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orcus
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" If there was nothing at all suspect or shady about what MM told the Diaz camp, why did he LIE and flat out deny that he even had the conversation at all???"

I don't see a quote denying he had a conversation with Nick. In any case, like I said, it makes absolutely no difference. 

It is a FACT that rounding down the weight is not against ANY rule in ANY AC in the world that I -- or you -- are aware of. 

It's sad that you idiots are so desperately attached to your hilariously ignorant initial belief that a major rule was being broken to protect GSP, that even once you are repeatedly proven wrong, you just keep on going, with all you have left being that a UFC rep acted funny. Maybe you can go to a judge and say he acted funny so the fight should be overturned or Nick should get 20% of GSP's purse or something? I don't know, good luck with that.

"also, show your proof that most ACs round .9 down....ill wait..."

Show me where I said most ACs round .9 down. But since most ACs round down, most would thefore "round .9 down" -- to .5 -- while some would round it all the way down to the whole pound.

3/30/13 2:15 PM
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SQUEEZIE
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus - 

"The issue is with the commission."

What is the issue with the commission? What did they do wrong?


They have "rules" that are not in writting, that apparently them implement and do not implement whenever they feel like it. They used the decimal at UFC 124, but not at this one or others. They used the decimal in many other MMA events and a boxing event where they broke ANOTHER rules of theirs that you do not get time to re-cut if you miss (Hopkins was .6lbs over and was allowed to cut.

 

If you cannot see that they are doing something inconsistent at the minimum, and corrupt at the maximum then you have serious mental issues.

 

Then apparently the UFC is 100% aware of these special "off the record" rules that the commission decides to implement as they see fit. The UFC decides it is smart to wait until the last possible chance before the weigh ins to make a fighter fighting for the UFC belt aware that these "off the record" rules are in place, and then that SAME official for the UFC, who is on video stating these "off the record" rules repeatedly tries to pretend the conversation never happened.

 

Again, if you cannot see that something shady/fucked up is going on here, you have serious mental issues ( or you ARE a zuffa schill like many think you are).


So how do you know it's the commission that is inconsistent and not the request of the promotion?  Maybe this would be like you saying the California commission is 'shady' because when UFC holds events elbows are allowed but when Strifeforce would hold events, no elbows were allowed.  And then you'd go ahead and assume it's the commission that randomely changes the rule.


are you saying its the ufc fault for the shady shit?
3/30/13 2:17 PM
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Winston Wolf
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onathan Tweedale, Nick Diaz's lawyer, contacted Bloody Elbow and exclusively provided very interesting text message transcripts from the evening of the weigh in, explaining "Given some of the media coverage, we need to set the record straight on the timing that the issue of the 0.9 was raised by Nick Diaz. The issue was pursued immediately. On the evening of March 15, Mike Mersch and I exchanged the following correspondence (via text message), in which he denied any knowledge of a .9 allowance or ignoring the decimal."

Mersch, again, was the man in the video who informed the camp of the "no decimal" changes.

Here is the text conversation between Tweedale (JDT) and Mersch (MM), which starts at 9:24 p.m.:

JDT: "Hi Mike. Nick is curious about the .9 pound allowance at today's weigh-in for his championship bout. He doesn't want to be a nuisance about this, but he's a bit confused. Can you shed any light?"

MM: "I don't know what you're talking about. All parties weighed in appropriately according [to] the Quebec Commission."

JDT: "Of course. You're right, and he knows that. He just wanted to know why the Quebec Commission was okay with a 0.9 pound weight allowance for a championship fight. Nick's not going to make an issue of it, but it's been gnawing at him since it was explained to him at the weigh-ins, on an "off the record" basis or otherwise. I just want him to stop thinking about it, and thought you could provide some insight."

MM: "I have been told everyone made weight so there's nothing to make an issue about. He might want to focus on how he's going to win the fight rather than spending the night making excuses about why he lost."

The correspondence continued at 9:46 p.m.:

JDT: "C'mon Mike you're just going to stonewall on this issue? We're reaching out in a discreet manner, as appropriate in the circumstances. Meet us half-way."

MM: "Huh? The Commission determined both fighters weighed 170 or less. What am I supposed to do about that? I would think Nick would be excited to compete for the UFC Welterweight title. Seems like he's focused on the wrong issue."

JDT: "No one wants you to *do* anything. If the answer is simply "the Quebec Commission permits a promoter to request that .9 pounds be rounded down in a championship fight (unlike, e.g., the Washington commission for Nate's fight), and Zuffa made that request here", then pls confirm. Far better to reach out this way than the uncooperative Twitter/media way."

MM: "How would I know what the Quebec Commission does? I was informed everyone made weight like everyone else at the weigh in. Zuffa made no requests for anything from the Quebec Commission. Good luck to Nick with the fight."

JDT: "Okay. I'll let Nick know that you can't shed any light on why Quebec treats 170.9 as 170 in a championship fight. Disappointing. Thanks for your time and your wish of luck to Nick for the fight."

MM: "Again I have no idea what you're talking about. The Quebec Commission indicated both fighters were 170 or lower."

JDT: "If you don't know then I should be asking someone else. No worries, Mike. Which UFC exec advised Nick and his entourage before the weigh-in that "If you're 170.2, you're 170. If you're 170.9, you're 170...that's a kinda off the record type of thing"?"

MM: "I would think you'd direct that to the source: the Quebec Commission. The UFC has nothing to do with weigh ins in Quebec."

Tweedale explained, "We appreciate that Mr. Mersch was in a difficult position, evidently having been instructed by the Quebec Commission to relay to Mr. Diaz some last-minute, unlawful 'rule changes' to give the hometown fighter a reprieve from his duty to make weight at 170 pounds.

read entire article...
3/30/13 2:25 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Edited: 03/30/13 2:25 PM
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Then why lie RFLAG?

That is shady in and of itself!

The answer? The truth was even more shady.
3/30/13 2:27 PM
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Mookie Blaylock
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