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DantheWolfMan UnderGround >> Serious gun question


5/8/03 9:52 PM
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GaryK
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Edited: 08-May-03
Member Since: 26-Mar-02
Posts: 0
 
Hello all: Recently, we were training at my school using Coach Blauer's bladed and ballistic weapon concepts. Namely, the 3 C's of "clear, control and counter" (in NO particular order...The scenario will ALWAYS dictate!). In any event, just about everytime we work with firearms, an intelligent question will be asked about the realistic probability of holding onto a handgun once one (or more) rounds have been fired. As you know, guns get hot FAST! More specifically, someone recently asked, "If they have one in the chamber and the weapon discharges as I try to control it, what the HELL is going to happen to my hand?!" Here's what PDR Coach and SWAT operator Sean Mulligan shared with me: ...firstly I would like you to know that I have experienced grabbing a live firearm from the side in a controlled training session on a range with both a gloved and bare hand as it was fired at a target down range. There is a chance that you will receive a slight burn from the barrel and pinching to the hand from the slide depending on your grip. However this did not incapacitate me physically as I wasn't aware of the injuries until after I communicated with my partner that I was going to release the firearm. Your mindset accompanied with physiological fear and adrenalin will allow you to 'weather the storm'. Remember that this was controlled and not a fight for my personal survival. I also have my students do the same with a firearm transitioned and loaded with simmunition rounds. These are realistic rounds of paint and soap encased in hard plastic. Some of the session are caught on video to verify my claims. I have never had one of the students release the gun until they had reached the safety point of the drill whether it be disarming the opponent or attacking after the initial control. Additionally...in many cases, the opponent was never able to squeeze off a second round as a result of putting the firearm out of battery and on the remaining cases, they were unable to fire the weapon initially as a result of the grip placing the weapon out of battery. the problem with the latter is that they are often able to fire a round off when the firearm is released. When doing these drills, so that you have a better understanding, the individual firing was told to do just that and to continue firing until the end of the drill. The person grabbing was instructed to apply BTS's 3 C's for weapon control. I found that those with the greatest fear of the firearm held it the tightest and in a few incidents preventing it from being used as it was intended. The bottom line is that you have to give yourself permission, psychologically, first to fight, physically, and through training much like the Emotional Climate Training for the Firearm mentioned above, make the transition emotionally to do what needs to be done under the circumstances. I hope that this helped...personally, I feel that if more officers trained in this manner, there would be less shot and killed in the line of duty. Any other thoughts to share? Gary
5/10/03 9:27 AM
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Sean Mulligan
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Edited: 10-May-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 49
For those of you unfamiliar with Emotional Climate Training (ECT), it is a drill developed by Tony Blauer to assist the student in Managing their personal Fears during a specific attack...hence the reference here in the Gun question. This drill allows the student, once they have become somewhat comfortable with the isolated attack, to analyze it from the inside creating a greater awareness and comfort level. Many individuals are unable to access their favorite tools in a 'real'or 'realistic' fight, because at some level or another, Fear exists. To quote Tony from a session that we are presently doing..."How do you fail a training event in a simulation that you know is not real? The same way Tiger Woods misses a 2' put…FEAR!". So in essence what I am alluding to here is this...don't say that you can do this or you can do that in a situation involving a gun attack until you have grabed a weapon that is functional, within safety perimeters, and tried to do the 'techniqiue' against a willing opponent. This is your litmus test! Hope that this clears up some. Sean Mulligan BTS LEO/PDR Training Team sean@tonyblauer.com
5/10/03 7:27 PM
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pegomez
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Edited: 10-May-03
Member Since: 19-Mar-02
Posts: 3
If you are around guns at all and especially if you keep guns with the idea of using them defensively, I highly reccomend this drill. I've used it for years in training classes and was surprised when so many students told me that they had never done it before and how uncomfortable they were with the drill, initially. A lot of people are surprised by how little force is required to cause the gun to malfunction and by the lack of physical discomfort while performing the drill. Gomez
5/11/03 11:03 AM
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Lofland
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Edited: 11-May-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 2470
Does Coach Blauer still have the policy of restricting the gun disarm techniques for LEO/Military only? I am certainly curious about those techniques after allusions to the differences between guns and knives in "Controlling the Blade," but I was surprised to see two PDR coaches discussing it in the open forum. Trying out the CCC technique with a rubber knife was scary enough, but that would be nothing compared to a real gun with Simunitions, even with full protective gear.
5/13/03 12:07 AM
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Sean Mulligan
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Edited: 13-May-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 50
Yes and no...the actually tactics associated to gun disarms are reserved for our LEO/Military students as well as the PDR coaches of higher levels at our annual 'combat camps'. Don't confuse the above drill with actually doing specific gun disarms...this evolution of the ECT allows the student to become comfortable with identified Primary Initiation Attacks with the gun so that they can move on to drills involving the 3 C's. It is a progression that instills confidence in the students tactics. It is also an advanced progession...we start off with replics like the red ASP or Rings Blue guns before moving forward. This can also be done with a replica that is inert but was designed to chamber and fire like a functional firearm. I personally would not recommend the above drills without the supervision of soemone with extensive firearms training as well as having evaluated and adhering to all of the included points of safety. Clear up any confussion? Sean
5/16/03 8:23 AM
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Tony Blauer
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Edited: 16-May-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 520
Blauer Tactical Systems, Inc.
Regarding our restrictions on open discussion on disarms etc...as Sean pointed out this dialog was more of an application of our EMOTIONAL CLIMATE TRAINING drills (detailed on our Rage Attacks video) and not about technique or tactics. Understand the reason we dont discuss many details on our SOP's (armed & unarmed) on the forum is mostly for safety reasons...video is a suitable medium to tranfer knowledge, but it pales in comparison to person to person contact...writing about mechanics and improvisation, off- blance micro-adjustments and so on stirkes me as simply unrealistic....not to mention potentially dangerous (in the case of a misunderstanding), so I try to restrict this forum to more general info and philosphical dialog. Tony
5/16/03 5:42 PM
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Lofland
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Edited: 16-May-03
Member Since: 01-Jan-01
Posts: 2528
and, obviously, you are very open with the best tactic of all against guns, which is Detect and Defuse!

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