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UnderGround Forums >> Lee Murray vs Jon Jones in the street?


4/5/13 12:34 PM
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ShamusO'nyou
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Some very naive opinions so far imo.

Nobody is disputing that Jones would crush him in the cage, but Tito would have done the same.

On the street Tito would literally have been killed if Murray had not been dragged off him.

Murray was a predator amongst predators in a place where people solve things mostly by hand to hand combat. He has proved himself completely.

Think about that
4/5/13 12:39 PM
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T Bag
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lol@ "the street"
You guys sound like TMA nerds
4/5/13 12:45 PM
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kingkoopa
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Its a street fight. Jones is not from the street. Lee would most likely get a surprise attack in while jones yaps.

Stunned jones would get flurried on by Murray

Murray via rape choke Phone Post
4/5/13 12:52 PM
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ShamusO'nyou
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T Bag - lol@ "the street"
You guys sound like TMA nerds

Do streets not exist?
4/5/13 12:56 PM
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ShawnTheBadger
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Vitor29 -  Some people have trouble distingushing professional fighting from street fighting. It's not the same, a different situation with a different mentality. There are fighters which are definitely both, but you're deluding yourself if you think there aren't fighters who would get wrecked in the cage vs fighter X but who would wreck fighter X in a street fight. Phone Post

This.  Voted up.

A street-fight is a brutal and unhinged sprint of savagery, mayhem, and full-tilt-boogie offense.

 

Forgive me, but I worked club security for nearly 3-decades, and I have a few questions.

 

There are way more variables (1000X) than in a sanctioned match, to consider to determine a winner by mere speculation.

Weapons.  On the combatants before the fight starts?  Highly likely Murray will be carrying a weapon, a knife, tactical pen, collapsible baton, or sap.  Jones will certainly not be carrying a weapon.  Highly likely that Murray will see battle-field weapons for what they are, a bottle, two-by-four, trash can lid, brick, rock, whiskey glass, champagne bottle, beer bottle, pool stick, waitress tray, or other impromptu weapons that Jones will not "recognize" as such until it is far too late.

What is the surface upon which this fight occurs?  Cement?  Blacktop?  Dirt field?  Sandy beach?

Obstacles, what is surrounding the opponents?  Brick walls?  Cars? Trees?  Nothing, just a big open parking lot?  Just a wide open field?  Is this inside a building like a bar or nightclub with tables, chairs, bottles, glasses, murky lighting, a fog machine, spilled drinks on the tile floor, and civilians scrambling to get out of the way?

What is the lighting?  In the dark?  Street lamps?  Daylight?  Car headlights?  Camp fire?  Strobe light?

Is there an official "start" or does this shindig just kick off impromptu (like most street/bar fights) when someone makes the first move?  Oftentimes the first move is thee most important move, by a wide margin.

What are the opponents wearing?  Dress shoes? Sneakers?  Steel toed heavy-lug work boots?  Jacket and tie?  T-shirt and jeans?  Heavy winter coats?  Swimsuits?

Can other folks jump in?  Does each opponent have an equal number of equally skilled and willing friends in attendance?

Is this till one opponent cannot continue via TKO/KO?  Till one oppenent leaves in an ambulance?  Till the death?  Till one opponent verbally gives up?  Till the friends watching pull them apart?  Till the LEO's arrive?

Biting, scratching, eye-gouging, fish-hooking, hair-pulling, 9-point striking, groin-throat-knee striking all on the table?  No rules, no understood "gentlemens agreement", no Kingsbury rules, no Kimbo-slice back-yard-boxing rules, no rules whatsoever?  No quarter asked, none given, no excuses?

Is one opponent familiar with the chosen location, like in a bar, and the other opponent has never been in that establishment before?

 

Every single one of my questions can and will affect the outcome of Lee Murray vs. JBJ in a "street fight."  I am *guessing* that Lee Murray would fully understand all my questions and how they would affect the outcome, and JBJ would be out of his element and not even have ever considered the answers to my questions.  Which may or may not trump JBJ's clear advantage in a fully sanctioned fight.

 

 

 

 

 

4/5/13 1:08 PM
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TheRealMrBeefy
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Jones wins in and out of the cage.

He is just physically more imposing and athetic - even a prision ripped Murray would be the smaller guy. Jones would just use his wrestling get Murray on the ground and either pound him out with elbows or just submit him.

Murray would literally need a weapon to make it even. Like a bazooka or some shit lol. Phone Post
4/5/13 1:24 PM
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Donoghue88
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Everyones talking shit, most street fights are outside the pub or arguments. Most do not involve weapons and dont last long. Lee will rush Jon without hesitation and probably floor him, cause Jon is a nice guy and wouldnt be in fight mode.

In an open space 1v1 Where John is ready to fight obviously Murray will lose.
4/5/13 1:28 PM
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kingkoopa
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NotImpressedByYourScreenName -
Bofbro -
figure four - Anderson Silva neutralized Lee Murray at 170...
No way Murray gonna do shit to JBJ...

Is it true that Murray never even trained properly for that fight, and was coming off a brutal street fight where he got stabbed?
No. Phone Post 3.0
AS vs Murray at 170lbs?

It was 185 Phone Post
4/5/13 1:30 PM
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colubrid1
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ShawnTheBadger - 
Vitor29 -  Some people have trouble distingushing professional fighting from street fighting. It's not the same, a different situation with a different mentality. There are fighters which are definitely both, but you're deluding yourself if you think there aren't fighters who would get wrecked in the cage vs fighter X but who would wreck fighter X in a street fight. Phone Post

This.  Voted up.

A street-fight is a brutal and unhinged sprint of savagery, mayhem, and full-tilt-boogie offense.

 

Forgive me, but I worked club security for nearly 3-decades, and I have a few questions.

 

There are way more variables (1000X) than in a sanctioned match, to consider to determine a winner by mere speculation.

Weapons.  On the combatants before the fight starts?  Highly likely Murray will be carrying a weapon, a knife, tactical pen, collapsible baton, or sap.  Jones will certainly not be carrying a weapon.  Highly likely that Murray will see battle-field weapons for what they are, a bottle, two-by-four, trash can lid, brick, rock, whiskey glass, champagne bottle, beer bottle, pool stick, waitress tray, or other impromptu weapons that Jones will not "recognize" as such until it is far too late.

What is the surface upon which this fight occurs?  Cement?  Blacktop?  Dirt field?  Sandy beach?

Obstacles, what is surrounding the opponents?  Brick walls?  Cars? Trees?  Nothing, just a big open parking lot?  Just a wide open field?  Is this inside a building like a bar or nightclub with tables, chairs, bottles, glasses, murky lighting, a fog machine, spilled drinks on the tile floor, and civilians scrambling to get out of the way?

What is the lighting?  In the dark?  Street lamps?  Daylight?  Car headlights?  Camp fire?  Strobe light?

Is there an official "start" or does this shindig just kick off impromptu (like most street/bar fights) when someone makes the first move?  Oftentimes the first move is thee most important move, by a wide margin.

What are the opponents wearing?  Dress shoes? Sneakers?  Steel toed heavy-lug work boots?  Jacket and tie?  T-shirt and jeans?  Heavy winter coats?  Swimsuits?

Can other folks jump in?  Does each opponent have an equal number of equally skilled and willing friends in attendance?

Is this till one opponent cannot continue via TKO/KO?  Till one oppenent leaves in an ambulance?  Till the death?  Till one opponent verbally gives up?  Till the friends watching pull them apart?  Till the LEO's arrive?

Biting, scratching, eye-gouging, fish-hooking, hair-pulling, 9-point striking, groin-throat-knee striking all on the table?  No rules, no understood "gentlemens agreement", no Kingsbury rules, no Kimbo-slice back-yard-boxing rules, no rules whatsoever?  No quarter asked, none given, no excuses?

Is one opponent familiar with the chosen location, like in a bar, and the other opponent has never been in that establishment before?

 

Every single one of my questions can and will affect the outcome of Lee Murray vs. JBJ in a "street fight."  I am *guessing* that Lee Murray would fully understand all my questions and how they would affect the outcome, and JBJ would be out of his element and not even have ever considered the answers to my questions.  Which may or may not trump JBJ's clear advantage in a fully sanctioned fight.

 

 

 

 

 


Ummm, this!
4/5/13 1:34 PM
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colubrid1
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TheRealMrBeefy -  Jones wins in and out of the cage.

He is just physically more imposing and athetic - even a prision ripped Murray would be the smaller guy. Jones would just use his wrestling get Murray on the ground and either pound him out with elbows or just submit him.

Murray would literally need a weapon to make it even. Like a bazooka or some shit lol. Phone Post

Lee Murray would definetly win in a street fight. I don't thik he would walk into a bar without noticing certain things for his advantage before anything even close to a confrontation would take place.. like a cop sits in the back of a resturant facing the door. It is just instinct for Murray (a thug) in a bar envronment or any other. His experience puts the sun behind his back 100% of the time.

Jones has no chance of winning any more than fighting in iraq with his rules and skills.


4/5/13 1:38 PM
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ShawnTheBadger
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Lee Murray is both a street/bar fighter, and a very dangerous and skilled Mixed Martial Artist.  Went the distance with AS.

 

Hypothetically....

Jones would be taken by both the element of distraction and surprise.  Purposefully.  With feral and cunning premeditation.  By a man who has intentionally done this several dozen times. 

Lee's follow-up offense, before Jones even realizes or registers that he is in a fight for his very life, would be utterly and completely devastating.  The second strike would be to the balls, eyes, or throat.  Followed by Lee hip-checking-hockey-style Jones into a lamp post, while simultaneously driving Jones head into the steel post with one palm on the side of Jones head.   A berserker flurry of savage punching, a headbutt and knees follows Jones to the ground.  Lee grabs a trash can lid, and smashes it sideways-edgefirst on the back of Jones neck as Jones is attempting to get up.  At which point Lee would put the steel toed boots (he is wearing on purpose) to Jones thighs, ribs and head, alternating between stomps with the boot heel on any open target.

The whole thing is over and done in less than 45-seconds.  Jones is unconciouss and bleeding.

Jones goes to the hospital with a severe concussion, bruising, cuts, contusions and a few broken bones. 

Lee Murray scats to go establish an air-tight alibi with plenty of (unsavory) witnesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4/5/13 1:39 PM
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colubrid1
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ShawnTheBadger, has the best post on street fighting i have seen here in a long time. To many confuse what is a street fighter compared to competitive MMA. They sort live in a LA-LA land of fair fighting (aka Kimbo back yard brawls) where they think that there is some sort of fair fight going on to get your ass kicked.

I live in GA. i carry concealed. If I tell you I don't want to fight and you attack me i will shoot you. I will not risk my families future on being permantntly damaged or dead because you want to hurt me. Fair enough?
4/5/13 1:42 PM
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TuLegit
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Lee wins but gets bloodied up himself. Phone Post 3.0
4/5/13 1:42 PM
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Britain`s #1 Skin Flute Player
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Murray would give JBJ "the eyes", JBJ would then hand over his lunch money before curling into the fetal position & begging for mercy.
4/5/13 1:45 PM
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mynameisjonas
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MattyJ - Depends entirely on the circumstances, is Jones wearing dress shoes? Phone Post 3.0

This fight is primarily determined by footwear and fighting surface.

In dress shoes on the Filfy Streets of London: Murray 10/10


In Nikes on the Filfy Streets of London: Murray 7/10


In dress shoes on normal asphalt: Even


In Nikes on normal asphalt: Jones 8/10
4/5/13 1:46 PM
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ShamusO'nyou
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TheRealMrBeefy -  Jones wins in and out of the cage.

He is just physically more imposing and athetic - even a prision ripped Murray would be the smaller guy. Jones would just use his wrestling get Murray on the ground and either pound him out with elbows or just submit him.

Murray would literally need a weapon to make it even. Like a bazooka or some shit lol. Phone Post

With all due respect, I really don't understand this simplistic reasoning

These are all reasons why Jones would win in the cage, and they all apply to Tito, but what happened to Tito when he crossed Murray outside of a sporting environment? He was very close to actually being beaten to death by an unarmed, naturally smaller Lee Murray.

Now don't me wrong, if Lee had never trained MMA or any combat sports I wouldn't expect him to beat Jones in anything. However, his professional training plus his killer instinct and proven no rules skills are enough to convince me that if they got in an argument in a bar , or some driving related incident etc that caused Lee to go into attack mode, Jones would end up in the hospital or worse.

Tito is actually incredibly lucky there were trained professionals around to save him.
4/5/13 2:02 PM
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MarcVanBas
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Edited: 04/06/13 7:16 AM
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.
4/5/13 2:08 PM
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colubrid1
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mynameisjonas - 
MattyJ - Depends entirely on the circumstances, is Jones wearing dress shoes? Phone Post 3.0

This fight is primarily determined by footwear and fighting surface.

In dress shoes on the Filfy Streets of London: Murray 10/10


In Nikes on the Filfy Streets of London: Murray 7/10


In dress shoes on normal asphalt: Even


In Nikes on normal asphalt: Jones 8/10

Again! You are thinking of a normal fair fight. the shoes would not matter or make a difference in the outcome in a street fight between JBJ vs murray. None whatsoever.
4/5/13 2:13 PM
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MMA Playwrite
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ShamusO'nyou - 
TheRealMrBeefy -  Jones wins in and out of the cage.

He is just physically more imposing and athetic - even a prision ripped Murray would be the smaller guy. Jones would just use his wrestling get Murray on the ground and either pound him out with elbows or just submit him.

Murray would literally need a weapon to make it even. Like a bazooka or some shit lol. Phone Post

With all due respect, I really don't understand this simplistic reasoning

These are all reasons why Jones would win in the cage, and they all apply to Tito, but what happened to Tito when he crossed Murray outside of a sporting environment? He was very close to actually being beaten to death by an unarmed, naturally smaller Lee Murray.

Now don't me wrong, if Lee had never trained MMA or any combat sports I wouldn't expect him to beat Jones in anything. However, his professional training plus his killer instinct and proven no rules skills are enough to convince me that if they got in an argument in a bar , or some driving related incident etc that caused Lee to go into attack mode, Jones would end up in the hospital or worse.

Tito is actually incredibly lucky there were trained professionals around to save him.

This is the first I've heard about Tito's very life being at stake. Must have been a truly savage beatdown.

The Woolwich Massive is NOT to be taken lightly. Believe that.
4/5/13 2:17 PM
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ShamusO'nyou
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ShawnTheBadger - 

Lee Murray is both a street/bar fighter, and a very dangerous and skilled Mixed Martial Artist.  Went the distance with AS.

 

Hypothetically....

Jones would be taken by both the element of distraction and surprise.  Purposefully.  With feral and cunning premeditation.  By a man who has intentionally done this several dozen times. 

Lee's follow-up offense, before Jones even realizes or registers that he is in a fight for his very life, would be utterly and completely devastating.  The second strike would be to the balls, eyes, or throat.  Followed by Lee hip-checking-hockey-style Jones into a lamp post, while simultaneously driving Jones head into the steel post with one palm on the side of Jones head.   A berserker flurry of savage punching, a headbutt and knees follows Jones to the ground.  Lee grabs a trash can lid, and smashes it sideways-edgefirst on the back of Jones neck as Jones is attempting to get up.  At which point Lee would put the steel toed boots (he is wearing on purpose) to Jones thighs, ribs and head, alternating between stomps with the boot heel on any open target.

The whole thing is over and done in less than 45-seconds.  Jones is unconciouss and bleeding.

Jones goes to the hospital with a severe concussion, bruising, cuts, contusions and a few broken bones. 

Lee Murray scats to go establish an air-tight alibi with plenty of (unsavory) witnesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


You know your stuff.

It wouldn't even be a fight, just an assault/potential murder.

I think it would be like that gif of the guy doing the devastating elbow KO as he left the bar. With Lee being the guy dishing out the elbow and Jones being the victim.
4/5/13 2:19 PM
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MMA Playwrite
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More info:

http://fightlinker.com/street-fighting-with-lee-murray/
4/5/13 5:51 PM
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Kings21
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tetris -  I would take lee Murray over anyone in the streets. The streets are a different animal IMO and that guy has a lot of experience on the streets as well as the cage. He'll, he went the distance with Silva iirc. Phone Post

So did Leites, Maia, Horn, Otsuka, Sakurai, Kato and Azeredo.
4/5/13 5:59 PM
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someonestolemysocks
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Jones IMO a few slams onto the pavement would be BRUTAL
4/5/13 6:20 PM
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ShamusO'nyou
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Jones would probably try to come at Murray like he starts all his fights , doing his bear crawl on all fours and get his head kicked off his shoulders.

He is too used to taking advantage of rules. On the street there is none for him to exploit.
4/5/13 6:25 PM
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peppo
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vtfu

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