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S&C UnderGround >> Joe DeFranco programs. Thought?


4/6/13 10:55 AM
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torquemada
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I've been trying one of his template programs and am liking it. Anyone got any opinions on him? Phone Post
4/6/13 11:03 AM
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slayer806
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Been to his gym twice for seminars. 1st time was for Stretch To Win and second was for his Amped warmup seminar.

His gym is heaven for meatheads! Very cool dude with a typical New Jersey edge to him.

Love the Westside for Skinny Bastards template.

Will post more later when I get to a computer. Phone Post 3.0
4/6/13 3:51 PM
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torquemada
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slayer806 - Been to his gym twice for seminars. 1st time was for Stretch To Win and second was for his Amped warmup seminar.

His gym is heaven for meatheads! Very cool dude with a typical New Jersey edge to him.

Love the Westside for Skinny Bastards template.

Will post more later when I get to a computer. Phone Post 3.0
Looking forward to it, bro. Phone Post
4/6/13 8:39 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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I like Joe's attitude, and his gym would be causing major boner action for me, but personally I didn't get good results out of his WS4SB template. I'm not saying it isn't effective, I'm sure it can be for many people, but I get better results out of a modified 5-3-1 template.
4/6/13 9:09 PM
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kyle47129
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I've been looking into his ws4sb but it seems geared more towards athletes. I've actually done well on the normal westside template. I'm just not sure i really like dynamic work that much. Phone Post 3.0
4/6/13 10:02 PM
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torquemada
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It's a terrible name, but I'm using the Built Like a Badass routine. Lifts are up, gaining size and keeping lean. Really happy so far.
We agree on a lot of injury prevention and posture stuff. Phone Post
4/7/13 12:52 AM
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Eggmachine
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I did built like a bad ass a while ago. I've been meaning to do it again. Great program.
4/10/13 11:54 AM
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PolandsFinest
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I really liked the badass program. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a routine that will make them look good and feel athletic
4/10/13 12:37 PM
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Adventure Runner
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Chocolate Shatner - I like Joe's attitude, and his gym would be causing major boner action for me, but personally I didn't get good results out of his WS4SB template. I'm not saying it isn't effective, I'm sure it can be for many people, but I get better results out of a modified 5-3-1 template.

Same as CS on all counts.  The program really appealed to me, and I got great results off a traditional Westside program.  I just didn't respond to his template.  Definitely give it a try though. 

4/12/13 1:09 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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ttt
4/12/13 9:59 PM
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Wiggy
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ttt for laterz
4/13/13 11:59 AM
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banco
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His stuff on the overhead press is just silly.
4/13/13 12:22 PM
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torquemada
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banco - His stuff on the overhead press is just silly.
What stuff? Phone Post
4/13/13 11:48 PM
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banco
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When you think of shoulder training, you probably think first of the overhead press or military press. Well, brace yourself: I bagged heavy overhead pressing years ago – removing them from 99% of my athletes' programs. I've seen great improvements in shoulder health and strength since ditching the heavy overhead presses.

(Only one in fifty athletes I see can overhead press without risk, but they're the genetic outliers, born with more "room" in there than most of us have. And even for them, we'll only work in two-week cycles of light to moderate-weight push presses, Bradford presses, and neutral-grip strongman log presses.)

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most.../shoulder_shocker
4/14/13 1:17 AM
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molsonman
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Adventure Runner - 
Chocolate Shatner - I like Joe's attitude, and his gym would be causing major boner action for me, but personally I didn't get good results out of his WS4SB template. I'm not saying it isn't effective, I'm sure it can be for many people, but I get better results out of a modified 5-3-1 template.

Same as CS on all counts.  The program really appealed to me, and I got great results off a traditional Westside program.  I just didn't respond to his template.  Definitely give it a try though. 


I'm the opposite. I do much better on the WS4SB template than I do on 5-3-1.
4/14/13 8:03 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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banco, I don't know about you, but I personally am of that percent that doesn't respond well to overhead presses. If I start doing OHP's of any type with more than moderate intensity and light overall loading once a week, my shoulders get seriously painfully fucked up.

On the other hand, if I use bands and dumbbells to do lateral raises, front raises, rear flyes, etc, I have no pain in my shoulders at all with no decrease in my main lifts or in my grappling strength.
4/14/13 10:51 AM
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torquemada
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I don't feel qualified strength wise to argue, but when I competed as a bodybuilder, I did very little over head pressing. Between chest and back, my shoulders got plenty. And they probably looked the best that they ever have aesthetically speaking. Phone Post
4/14/13 4:19 PM
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molsonman
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Elitefts Roundtable on programs and programing



Basic tenants discussed:

- Consistency in your training.
- Not missing lifts regularly in your training.
- Finding out what works for you through trial and error.
- Straining with a heavy lift.
- Avoiding program hopping--give yourself enough time to figure out whether a program is working for you.
- Form and technique are more important than programming.
- Find a good coach and crew to teach you and to provide honest critique.
- Give it time. (The members of the panel have all put in at least a decade of work).
- Build the program around planned deloads (once you are strong enough to need them).
- Learn to regulate your volume and assess how much circa-max training to include.
4/14/13 6:02 PM
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banco
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Chocolate Shatner - banco, I don't know about you, but I personally am of that percent that doesn't respond well to overhead presses. If I start doing OHP's of any type with more than moderate intensity and light overall loading once a week, my shoulders get seriously painfully fucked up.

On the other hand, if I use bands and dumbbells to do lateral raises, front raises, rear flyes, etc, I have no pain in my shoulders at all with no decrease in my main lifts or in my grappling strength.

I have no doubt that some people can't overhead press just like some people can't bench. But I'd think most people without pre-existing shoulder issues would/should be able to overhead press (look at all the people doing 531). Defranco is heavily into the bench press which at least in my experience is as least as likely to fuck your shoulders up as the overhead press.
4/15/13 7:50 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Oh, I agree that too much benching is just as stressful on the shoulders as too much OHP. That being said, I also think that just as some people are more inclined to the squat over the deadlift due to structural advantages (and vice versa), I am one of those people more inclined to the bench over the OHP.
4/22/13 2:04 PM
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The Gunslinger
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Having worked with people from there mileage may vary quite a bit with his trainees. I think there are better templates out there and his stuff is way over focused on benching-that creates big problems as others have stated. Everyone healthy, balanced person should be able to OHP. When you can't its an indicator of imbalance usually from either benching to the detriment of everything else or from sitting at a desk all day (poor posture) or both.
4/23/13 9:51 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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the thing that people take out of context is that Joe also prefaces that overhead pressing statement a lot by saying that most peoples' shoulders (as well as lumbar spine, pelvic tilt, and so on) are simply too poor for overhead pressing...In other words, his take on it is in the same line of thinking that "if you sit slouching all day at work, you're probably not going to be immediately doing great squats, deadlifts or good mornings immediately"...makes sense?
4/23/13 10:39 PM
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banco
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ArthurKnoqOut - the thing that people take out of context is that Joe also prefaces that overhead pressing statement a lot by saying that most peoples' shoulders (as well as lumbar spine, pelvic tilt, and so on) are simply too poor for overhead pressing...In other words, his take on it is in the same line of thinking that "if you sit slouching all day at work, you're probably not going to be immediately doing great squats, deadlifts or good mornings immediately"...makes sense?

But he trains mostly athletes (not people who slouch at their desk and have weak posture)I think his aversion to the overhead press goes beyond what you are saying.
4/23/13 11:06 PM
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molsonman
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He uses overhead press as an exercise option in his WS4SB template. He must not be completely against them. Phone Post
4/24/13 12:13 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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banco - 
ArthurKnoqOut - the thing that people take out of context is that Joe also prefaces that overhead pressing statement a lot by saying that most peoples' shoulders (as well as lumbar spine, pelvic tilt, and so on) are simply too poor for overhead pressing...In other words, his take on it is in the same line of thinking that "if you sit slouching all day at work, you're probably not going to be immediately doing great squats, deadlifts or good mornings immediately"...makes sense?

But he trains mostly athletes (not people who slouch at their desk and have weak posture)I think his aversion to the overhead press goes beyond what you are saying.

He doesn't write for only athletes...

molsonman, no he doesn't. I'm looking at (and also using) the New and Improved WS4SB and there's no horizontal pushing at all.

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