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S&C UnderGround >> Joe DeFranco programs. Thought?


4/24/13 12:16 PM
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Wiggy
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I like Joe and his stuff, but I also think the OHP stuff is kinda screwy. Personally, I love OH work and respond well to it - much better than benching. But, to each his own - by his own admission, CS is the exact opposite. So whatever works for you.

I think WS4SB is a good template, but how it's laid out will only work (IMO) if you're relatively inexperienced or not that strong. Once you get to a certain experience and/or strength level, the benefits of going for a XRM every week for months on end greatly diminish.

This is why (at least, from what I've seen) younger and more inexperienced lifters will do well with something like WS4SB as the lifting to a XRM every week can benefit them. When a guy gets bigger/stronger/more experienced, a longer-term and submaximal program like 5/3/1 seems to work well.

One other thing to keep in mind with Joe's programs that never really gets stated - Joe trains primarily athletes that have defined competitive seasons. At the same time, WS4SB and its variants would be best suited to being an "off-season" program. Building up to an XRM every week during the pre-season or in season would be crazy.

That said, WS4SB type templates are likely only done for 8-12 weeks at a time - not several months.
4/24/13 1:11 PM
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molsonman
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ArthurKnoqOut -
banco - 
ArthurKnoqOut - the thing that people take out of context is that Joe also prefaces that overhead pressing statement a lot by saying that most peoples' shoulders (as well as lumbar spine, pelvic tilt, and so on) are simply too poor for overhead pressing...In other words, his take on it is in the same line of thinking that "if you sit slouching all day at work, you're probably not going to be immediately doing great squats, deadlifts or good mornings immediately"...makes sense?

But he trains mostly athletes (not people who slouch at their desk and have weak posture)I think his aversion to the overhead press goes beyond what you are saying.

He doesn't write for only athletes...

molsonman, no he doesn't. I'm looking at (and also using) the New and Improved WS4SB and there's no horizontal pushing at all.
You need to look again.

It is in the WS4SB original. He has a db overhead press and barbell option on the repetition day. Phone Post
4/24/13 1:15 PM
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molsonman
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Also an option in WS4SB II Phone Post
4/24/13 1:19 PM
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molsonman
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Just checked WS4SB III and their is a overhead pressing option as well.

You might want to read the article again. Phone Post
4/24/13 3:50 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

I did :) and checked the PDF as well. the ONLY thing he has is a dumbbell military press...
4/24/13 3:57 PM
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molsonman
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ArthurKnoqOut - http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

I did :) and checked the PDF as well. the ONLY thing he has is a dumbbell military press...
Are you trolling? Military press is overhead press. LOL.

On the WS4SB I & II he also suggests Bradford press. Phone Post
4/24/13 4:08 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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molsonman - 
ArthurKnoqOut - http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

I did :) and checked the PDF as well. the ONLY thing he has is a dumbbell military press...
Are you trolling? Military press is overhead press. LOL.

On the WS4SB I & II he also suggests Bradford press. Phone Post

where is the barbell option you mentioned?

Military press is a type of an overhead press yeaaah...?
4/24/13 4:10 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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It's also an accessory/auxiliary exercise and it's easy to miss because:

Medial delts – choose one of the following exercises and perform 4 sets of 8-12 reps:

DB lateral raises
L-lateral raises
Cable lateral raises
DB military press
DB side press

For medial deltoid I personally use the db lateral raise...

Personally, I figured you meant that he has an OH press as a "must" exercise how he a barbell/dumbbell/bench/floor presses
4/24/13 5:56 PM
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molsonman
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ArthurKnoqOut -
molsonman - 
ArthurKnoqOut - http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

I did :) and checked the PDF as well. the ONLY thing he has is a dumbbell military press...
Are you trolling? Military press is overhead press. LOL.

On the WS4SB I & II he also suggests Bradford press. Phone Post

where is the barbell option you mentioned?

Military press is a type of an overhead press yeaaah...?
Oh you are actually being serious.

Bradford press involves a barbell. There is even a picture on the previous WS4SB' s. I don't think DeFranco would object to subbing in a barbell. The exercises are not written in stone.

How long have you been lifting? Phone Post
4/24/13 6:29 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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molsonman - 
ArthurKnoqOut -
molsonman - 
ArthurKnoqOut - http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

I did :) and checked the PDF as well. the ONLY thing he has is a dumbbell military press...
Are you trolling? Military press is overhead press. LOL.

On the WS4SB I & II he also suggests Bradford press. Phone Post

where is the barbell option you mentioned?

Military press is a type of an overhead press yeaaah...?
Oh you are actually being serious.

Bradford press involves a barbell. There is even a picture on the previous WS4SB' s. I don't think DeFranco would object to subbing in a barbell. The exercises are not written in stone.

How long have you been lifting? Phone Post

where is this in his program? you keep skirting this :) Obviously W4SB 3 is more recent than 2. So, ipso facto it's not in his program anymore...They aren't written in stone but since he's not really keen on the overhead press as mentioned using HIS quote, it doesn't matter...Been lifting since sophomore year in HS so about 10 years?

I do a push press in his program regardless of what he says ;-)
4/24/13 6:43 PM
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molsonman
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ArthurKnoqOut - 
molsonman - 
ArthurKnoqOut -
molsonman - 
ArthurKnoqOut - http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/65-westside-for-skinny-bastards-part3.html

I did :) and checked the PDF as well. the ONLY thing he has is a dumbbell military press...
Are you trolling? Military press is overhead press. LOL.

On the WS4SB I & II he also suggests Bradford press. Phone Post

where is the barbell option you mentioned?

Military press is a type of an overhead press yeaaah...?
Oh you are actually being serious.

Bradford press involves a barbell. There is even a picture on the previous WS4SB' s. I don't think DeFranco would object to subbing in a barbell. The exercises are not written in stone.

How long have you been lifting? Phone Post

where is this in his program? you keep skirting this :) Obviously W4SB 3 is more recent than 2. So, ipso facto it's not in his program anymore...They aren't written in stone but since he's not really keen on the overhead press as mentioned using HIS quote, it doesn't matter...Been lifting since sophomore year in HS so about 10 years?

I do a push press in his program regardless of what he says ;-)

WS4SB 3 doesn't void out the previous. PLus as you even mentioned there is overhead pressing in WS4SB 3.

It really seems like you are trolling.

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