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4/8/13 5:29 PM
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mikerobmma
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While I'm sure you're a fine grappler russki, some of your comments have just....

"I learned that when I was 12"

Really dude? You don't consider that a bit insulting? And just for accuracy's sake, do you actually remember learning that when you were 12? Or are you just throwing out an arbitrary low number?

And really, I'm not sweating the triangling the legs thing. Your method may be solid, but I doubt that triangling my legs is as risky as you say. And like I said in the video, if its considered a threat then don't triangle your legs. Or as Sean Roberts said, use your free leg to kick their attack off, then finish the slicer.

Either way, thanks for your input. Phone Post 3.0
4/8/13 5:44 PM
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russkisambist
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Mike, yes I was 12. I fail to see an insult here. I started when I was 8. I do see I came across prickish in my first post and I sincerely apologize. I will put more effort into structuring my responses from this moment forth. However my last response was factual. Any offense you take is due strictly to your perception Phone Post 3.0
4/8/13 8:29 PM
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mikerobmma
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nogidavid -

i'm interested to see his version 

I am too. Phone Post 3.0
4/8/13 8:41 PM
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DanteHec
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4/8/13 8:56 PM
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Mango Reinhardt
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4/8/13 9:08 PM
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Attack Dawg
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Great vid, thanks

4/8/13 9:16 PM
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Nitecrawler
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Mixed Martial Arts LLC, Moderator
Very nice bro!

TTT!
4/8/13 9:16 PM
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mikerobmma
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Thanks for watching everyone! Phone Post 3.0
4/8/13 10:20 PM
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russkisambist
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nogidavid -

is that you in the video from grapplers quest on youtube? vlad koulikov?

Yes. It's me. Not my best match Phone Post 3.0
4/8/13 10:36 PM
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shoudawhouda
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in
4/8/13 10:47 PM
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JoelN
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3T 4l8r Phone Post
4/8/13 10:56 PM
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redwhiteandblues
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4/8/13 10:57 PM
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russkisambist
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There ya go http://youtu.be/gG6O0oYEvEw Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 7:55 AM
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russkisambist
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nogidavid -

thanks for the vid. how are you generating enough pressure with your heels to stop him merely moving his bum away from you and straightening his leg?

David, pressure of two legs combined squeezing in and the wedged arm pulling upward stops him from straightening the leg. Also the fact that your feet are crossed stops your opponent from no hands toe holding you in the manner that you demonstrated. Also, in regards to toehold, the position is different. Yours was done from half guard when attacker is kneeling. While you kneel you can generate substantial amount of force by driving hips forward. Once you sit on your but its different, you know what I mean? Plus if you nevermind your bad position and still try to toehold you're gonna experience difficulties pealing his flexes ankles apart while a sub is being done to you. I hope I did answer your question. When in New York or New Jersey stop by to train :) Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 7:56 AM
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russkisambist
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nogidavid -

thanks for the vid. how are you generating enough pressure with your heels to stop him merely moving his bum away from you and straightening his leg?

Sorry keep forgetting to say things. Just give move a try and you see what I mean for yourself Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 8:06 AM
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Bloodstorm
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4/9/13 10:10 AM
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rolijuju
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Great details from everyone! I am not an calf slicer guy however being a leg lock guy I will say that both attacks offer counters for the attackers feet. The real answer is the timing and set up of your attack. If you don't catch the guy off guard and get an immediate attack then it is a race. The counter attacker shouldn't have the time to work on the other legs otherwise the set up wasn't perfect. Just my thoughts, both set ups work.
4/9/13 11:24 AM
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mikerobmma
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rolijuju - Great details from everyone! I am not an calf slicer guy however being a leg lock guy I will say that both attacks offer counters for the attackers feet. The real answer is the timing and set up of your attack. If you don't catch the guy off guard and get an immediate attack then it is a race. The counter attacker shouldn't have the time to work on the other legs otherwise the set up wasn't perfect. Just my thoughts, both set ups work.
I agree with what you say. If thrown properly it will surprise them and be hard to counter. Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 12:16 PM
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russkisambist
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rolijuju - Great details from everyone! I am not an calf slicer guy however being a leg lock guy I will say that both attacks offer counters for the attackers feet. The real answer is the timing and set up of your attack. If you don't catch the guy off guard and get an immediate attack then it is a race. The counter attacker shouldn't have the time to work on the other legs otherwise the set up wasn't perfect. Just my thoughts, both set ups work.
That is correct. However when legs are triangled the counter is RIGHT THERE. When feet are crossed one MUST HAVE TO WORK to peal them apart which is fairly hard to begin with and coupled with mentioned timing SHOULD be impossible. NogiDave , this is the reason I'm not concerned with inverted heel hook either. Also remember, an attacker is always proactive. So the defender has to produce a counter, if any available, under fire so to speak, while being in pain... Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 12:17 PM
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Akston
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. Phone Post
4/9/13 12:20 PM
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mikerobmma
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russkisambist -
rolijuju - Great details from everyone! I am not an calf slicer guy however being a leg lock guy I will say that both attacks offer counters for the attackers feet. The real answer is the timing and set up of your attack. If you don't catch the guy off guard and get an immediate attack then it is a race. The counter attacker shouldn't have the time to work on the other legs otherwise the set up wasn't perfect. Just my thoughts, both set ups work.
That is correct. However when legs are triangled the counter is RIGHT THERE. When feet are crossed one MUST HAVE TO WORK to peal them apart which is fairly hard to begin with and coupled with mentioned timing SHOULD be impossible. NogiDave , this is the reason I'm not concerned with inverted heel hook either. Also remember, an attacker is always proactive. So the defender has to produce a counter, if any available, under fire so to speak, while being in pain... Phone Post 3.0
Which means that they'll have to counter the triangle of legs while in pain as well. Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 12:57 PM
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MTH
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Edited: 04/09/13 12:59 PM
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Russkisambist:  Definitely agree with OP that your posts have come off a bit prickly.  BUT, hats off to you for creating and posting a video to directly explain your point.  Your contribution has added value to the thread.  I enjoyed the OP's video, and I think your video adds commentary, highlights some risks, and offers an alternate variation that looks very good.

I don't think it's fair to say that the OP is "unqualfied."  He is clearly qualified, and clearly demonstrated three techniques that he is clearly capable of doing with substantial success.  If one has a technique and can apply it as desired, that's not "unqualified." 

What you're concerned with isn't that he's unqualfied, it's that his manner of applying the submission is in your view LESS DESIRABLE than yours because of available counters.  In other words, it's not that the OP was doing the technique wrong, it's that he was doing a technique CORRECTLY that you believe is INFERIOR to a similar technique.

I haven't experimented with any of these, but I expect it may be best (as with so many things) to know multiple variations.

4/9/13 1:42 PM
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rolijuju
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I promise I'm not spamming but at 7:35 of my 5 legal leg locks from 50/50 video you can see a counter that is applicable to the Ruski's option. Of course there is a counter to everything and I like his option a lot. I think you can do both ways. Great thread!!!!!
4/9/13 1:53 PM
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mikerobmma
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While everyone is offering differed views, this thread has been very beneficial and I appreciate everyone's contributions, especially Russki for showing his preferred method. Like I said, feel free to share if you like it. Phone Post 3.0
4/9/13 2:06 PM
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russkisambist
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mikerobmma -
russkisambist -
rolijuju - Great details from everyone! I am not an calf slicer guy however being a leg lock guy I will say that both attacks offer counters for the attackers feet. The real answer is the timing and set up of your attack. If you don't catch the guy off guard and get an immediate attack then it is a race. The counter attacker shouldn't have the time to work on the other legs otherwise the set up wasn't perfect. Just my thoughts, both set ups work.
That is correct. However when legs are triangled the counter is RIGHT THERE. When feet are crossed one MUST HAVE TO WORK to peal them apart which is fairly hard to begin with and coupled with mentioned timing SHOULD be impossible. NogiDave , this is the reason I'm not concerned with inverted heel hook either. Also remember, an attacker is always proactive. So the defender has to produce a counter, if any available, under fire so to speak, while being in pain... Phone Post 3.0
Which means that they'll have to counter the triangle of legs while in pain as well. Phone Post 3.0
No, Mike. With legs triangled the counter is for the grabs RIGHT AWAY. As a matter if fact the very first counter is available before the triangle is even on! And with the triangle there are three more. Did you get a chance to watch my vid? It's all there Phone Post 3.0

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