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ConspiracyGround >> Tsarnaev Brother's mom: "it's a setup"


4/19/13 7:08 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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12SixElbow - 
Sonester Sambo - 
nobadanymore -  Is it not possible they had intelligence of something happening at the marathon, and thats why they were there?. They are being quiet coz they fucked up and can't admit that?.
I'm more inclined to think that instead of conspiracy, but what do I know. Phone Post

That would be a very viable explanation, of course the gov't will never admit this so everything is up in the air.

Agreed.

this would make sense.

The mom said in the interview her son was part of a terror website and the FBI had visited his home. Perhaps they had some extra hidden security and the bombs still went off. Who knows.

 


so could it be possible that they were trying to catch this potential terrorist by GOADING HIM to do a terrorist act?

the NYT exactly said that is how they were catching terrorists.

So could this be one of the captures gone wrong?

that is why people need to know the complete picture.

GOOGLE NEW YORK TIMES FBI TERRORISTS.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND LEARN
4/19/13 7:09 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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i'm not saying the authorities wanted this to happen, I'm saying that they often catch terrorists by supplying them with weapons/explosive and then POUNCE ON THEM right before they commit to do it.
4/19/13 7:09 PM
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Jenny Wishbone
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Gullivers Travels - Why is it such a big deal to have military personnel and dogs at one of the largest and most iconic sporting events in the region? Especially one that is entirely out in the open? You can find them at many major events that are difficult to secure.

At marathons. Evidence?
4/19/13 7:12 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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^ yes they need to provide the evidence. i'm sure there are always security but not MERCENARIES.
4/19/13 7:15 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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t
4/19/13 7:16 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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NEW YORK TIMES

THE United States has been narrowly saved from lethal terrorist plots in recent years -- or so it has seemed. A would-be suicide bomber was intercepted on his way to the Capitol; a scheme to bomb synagogues and shoot Stinger missiles at military aircraft was developed by men in Newburgh, N.Y.; and a fanciful idea to fly explosive-laden model planes into the Pentagon and the Capitol was hatched in Massachusetts.
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Clay Rodery
But all these dramas were facilitated by the F.B.I., whose undercover agents and informers posed as terrorists offering a dummy missile, fake C-4 explosives, a disarmed suicide vest and rudimentary training. Suspects naïvely played their parts until they were arrested.

When an Oregon college student, Mohamed Osman Mohamud, thought of using a car bomb to attack a festive Christmas-tree lighting ceremony in Portland, the F.B.I. provided a van loaded with six 55-gallon drums of "inert material," harmless blasting caps, a detonator cord and a gallon of diesel fuel to make the van smell flammable. An undercover F.B.I. agent even did the driving, with Mr. Mohamud in the passenger seat. To trigger the bomb the student punched a number into a cellphone and got no boom, only a bust.

This is legal, but is it legitimate? Without the F.B.I., would the culprits commit violence on their own? Is cultivating potential terrorists the best use of the manpower designed to find the real ones? Judging by their official answers, the F.B.I. and the Justice Department are sure of themselves -- too sure, perhaps.

Carefully orchestrated sting operations usually hold up in court. Defendants invariably claim entrapment and almost always lose, because the law requires that they show no predisposition to commit the crime, even when induced by government agents. To underscore their predisposition, many suspects are "warned about the seriousness of their plots and given opportunities to back out," said Dean Boyd, a Justice Department spokesman. But not always, recorded conversations show. Sometimes they are coaxed to continue.

Undercover operations, long practiced by the F.B.I., have become a mainstay of counterterrorism, and they have changed in response to the post-9/11 focus on prevention. "Prior to 9/11 it would be very unusual for the F.B.I. to present a crime opportunity that wasn't in the scope of the activities that a person was already involved in," said Mike German of the American Civil Liberties Union, a lawyer and former F.B.I. agent who infiltrated white supremacist groups. An alleged drug dealer would be set up to sell drugs to an undercover agent, an arms trafficker to sell weapons. That still happens routinely, but less so in counterterrorism, and for good reason.

"There isn't a business of terrorism in the United States, thank God," a former federal prosecutor, David Raskin, explained.

"You're not going to be able to go to a street corner and find somebody who's already blown something up," he said. Therefore, the usual goal is not "to find somebody who's already engaged in terrorism but find somebody who would jump at the opportunity if a real terrorist showed up in town."

And that's the gray area. Who is susceptible? Anyone who plays along with the agents, apparently. Once the snare is set, law enforcement sees no choice. "Ignoring such threats is not an option," Mr. Boyd argued, "given the possibility that the suspect could act alone at any time or find someone else willing to help him."

Typically, the stings initially target suspects for pure speech -- comments to an informer outside a mosque, angry postings on Web sites, e-mails with radicals overseas -- then woo them into relationships with informers, who are often convicted felons working in exchange for leniency, or with F.B.I. agents posing as members of Al Qaeda or other groups.

Some targets have previous involvement in more than idle talk: for example, Waad Ramadan Alwan, an Iraqi in Kentucky, whose fingerprints were found on an unexploded roadside bomb near Bayji, Iraq, and Raja Khan of Chicago, who had sent funds to an Al Qaeda leader in Pakistan.

But others seem ambivalent, incompetent and adrift, like hapless wannabes looking for a cause that the informer or undercover agent skillfully helps them find. Take the Stinger missile defendant James Cromitie, a low-level drug dealer with a criminal record that included no violence or hate crime, despite his rants against Jews. "He was searching for answers within his Islamic faith," said his lawyer, Clinton W. Calhoun III, who has appealed his conviction. "And this informant, I think, twisted that search in a really pretty awful way, sort of misdirected Cromitie in his search and turned him towards violence."

THE informer, Shahed Hussain, had been charged with fraud, but avoided prison and deportation by working undercover in another investigation. He was being paid by the F.B.I. to pose as a wealthy Pakistani with ties to Jaish-e-Mohammed, a terrorist group that Mr. Cromitie apparently had never heard of before they met by chance in the parking lot of a mosque.

"Brother, did you ever try to do anything for the cause of Islam?" Mr. Hussain asked at one point.

"O.K., brother," Mr. Cromitie replied warily, "where you going with this, brother?"

Two days later, the informer told him, "Allah has more work for you to do," and added, "Revelation is going to come in your dreams that you have to do this thing, O.K.?" About 15 minutes later, Mr. Hussain proposed the idea of using missiles, saying he could get them in a container from China. Mr. Cromitie laughed.

Reading hundreds of pages of transcripts of the recorded conversations is like looking at the inkblots of a Rorschach test. Patterns of willingness and hesitation overlap and merge. "I don't want anyone to get hurt," Mr. Cromitie said, and then explained that he meant women and children. "I don't care if it's a whole synagogue of men." It took 11 months of meandering discussion and a promise of $250,000 to lead him, with three co-conspirators he recruited, to plant fake bombs at two Riverdale synagogues.

"Only the government could have made a 'terrorist' out of Mr. Cromitie, whose buffoonery is positively Shakespearean in its scope," said Judge Colleen McMahon, sentencing him to 25 years. She branded it a "fantasy terror operation" but called his attempt "beyond despicable" and rejected his claim of entrapment.

The judge's statement was unusual, but Mr. Cromitie's characteristics were not. His incompetence and ambivalence could be found among other aspiring terrorists whose grandiose plans were nurtured by law enforcement. They included men who wanted to attack fuel lines at Kennedy International Airport; destroy the Sears Tower (now Willis Tower) in Chicago; carry out a suicide bombing near Tampa Bay, Fla., and bomb subways in New York and Washington. Of the 22 most frightening plans for attacks since 9/11 on American soil, 14 were developed in sting operations.

Another New York City subway plot, which recently went to trial, needed no help from government. Nor did a bombing attempt in Times Square, the abortive underwear bombing in a jetliner over Detroit, a planned attack on Fort Dix, N.J., and several smaller efforts. Some threats are real, others less so. In terrorism, it's not easy to tell the difference.
4/19/13 7:27 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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It is entrapment and it should be illegal.

I am wondering if this incident was similar.

the FBI did visit these guys as confirmed by his mom.

it seems they identified these guys as extremists.

but hey.. the NEW YORK TIMES IS A CONSPIRACY PUBLICATION RIGHT?

people are so afraid of thinking for themselves.
4/19/13 7:34 PM
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Jenny Wishbone
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Tiresias - 
nobadanymore - 
Tiresias -
nobadanymore - 
Tiresias -
EVILYOSHIDA - Posting the news is Ctard crap?

So boston globe is a Ctard publication huh?

interesting.

Stop hiding behind "interesting" and "just posting news" you fag.  You choose what you post for a reason.  Not making an explicit comment IS making an implicit comment.  The mother's comment is only "interesting" if you think it reflects some important fact. Come out and make an actual comment instead of playing this pussy-ass, coy little game.

He's treading carefully so the thread isn't moved... I assume. Phone Post

I don't think so.  He operates in this fuzzy mode all the time, so he can keep talking without committing to positions.  You can see this by looking at his posts on his own board.

Lol. It surprises me that you check his site. I've never been over there, maybe I'll check it out. Phone Post

Sure I do.  I find the CT phenomenon quite interesting.  The fact that people can be completely convinced of something that most people can clearly see is wrong is like a puzzle to me.  That said, I have spent very little time there, and it only took little time to detect the pattern I mentioned.


"The fact that people can be completely convinced of something that most people can clearly see is wrong is like a puzzle to me. "

You could be describing a typical American's view of U.S. policy abroad vs. the view of this policy shared by most of the world.

I'm far more perplexed by the former than the existence of CT's.


4/19/13 7:36 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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lol @ teresa the marxist.

No one asserted anything, no one is sure of anything. that is why we ask QUESTIONS.

it's not hiding. it's called demanding answers.
4/19/13 7:59 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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4/19/13 8:12 PM
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HereWeAre
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"Journalist"

4/19/13 8:12 PM
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12SixElbow
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EVILYOSHIDA - 

Pretty fucking interesting....

4/19/13 8:20 PM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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Yes. interesting indeed.

they refused to give answers to legitimate questions.
4/20/13 8:02 PM
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GMB13
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LETMEBANGBRO - EY, I thought all MSM (including NYT) was garbage? Or is it only garbage when it doesn't fit your beliefs?

I'm confused ..

Just like most things in life, MSM is neither all bad nor all good.  First and foremost, ratings/circulation are more important than the legitmacy or importance of news.  The way that MSM is controlled, is that most news goes through heavy filters, so you do not always get the whole story.  Stories can also be almost entirely blacked out if various MSM outlets have vested interests in doing so.

4/21/13 7:44 AM
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EVILYOSHIDA
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^ good post.

they do report the truth sometimes, and they lie other times. You can usually tell.

like with this FBI story.. it's the truth because the FBI didn't deny it.

If someone denies a story or contradicts it, then we go to alternative news sources.

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