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UnderGround Forums >> Judge who scored it for Gilbert is a CGJJ Student?


4/21/13 10:36 AM
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semtex0809
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Never gonna pay Taxes - Not sure, but I had it Gil 1,2,5

It was a good fight though, I know they'll meet again soon

Would love to see Gil vs. Pettis, but I know Pettis is booked
This Phone Post
4/21/13 10:38 AM
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To anyone saying "this fighter clearly won", no. No one clearly one. "Clearly" winning is finishing someone. Or a fight that has scores of 30-25, 30-26.

Every round was close. Every single round. Because nothing of significance ever happened. 25 minutes of "maybe this guy is winning?"

When it goes to the judges, there shouldn't be a judge sitting there who runs an affiliate school of the man in a fighter's corner, period. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 10:38 AM
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"No one clearly won"

That's embarrassing. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 10:41 AM
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thegreenroom
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There was no winner in that fight. Pretty much dead even. So if a judge scores it for Gil it's not in any way out of nowhere.


The real infraction of judging is why bendo is still the champ and not Edgar. Frankie won their second fight. Phone Post
4/21/13 10:42 AM
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MagSlim
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I think judges should recuse themselves from certain matches like Supreme Court Justices because of conflict of interest.

With all the supposed budo in MMA, these judges should all be martial artist and have the honor to not judge those they trained with.

IRL, that will never happen.



I had it 1, 2, 5 for Gil.
4/21/13 10:43 AM
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InvisibleControl
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The big question is was this guy one of the judges in the 3rd Melendez/Thompson fight? If so he should lose his job.
4/21/13 10:48 AM
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dannybjj
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The problem is the controversy that sparks from something like this. The fight was close. I don't have a problem with his score. Phone Post
4/21/13 10:53 AM
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danggook
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that judge should be barred for life Phone Post
4/21/13 11:04 AM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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danggook -  that judge should be barred for life Phone Post

yup. this type of conflict of interest needs to be disclosed.

4/21/13 11:05 AM
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FirstScratch
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I have no problem with the guy's scorecard. I had Gil winning the fight as well. Still doesn't negate the fact that it was inappropriate for him to be judging that fight. Phone Post
4/21/13 11:05 AM
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sleepybear70
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epic hero - 
Never gonna pay Taxes - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
epic hero - The one who scored it correctly too
I thought you all were saying 1, 2, 5 not 1, 4, 5? Phone Post

Yeah I definitely had it 1 2 5, not 1 4 5

I had it 1,2, and 5 too

same here
4/21/13 11:09 AM
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mofomike
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The fix was in and they still couldnt get the win!

4/21/13 11:09 AM
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GriffinQ
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sleepybear70 -
epic hero - 
Never gonna pay Taxes - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
epic hero - The one who scored it correctly too
I thought you all were saying 1, 2, 5 not 1, 4, 5? Phone Post

Yeah I definitely had it 1 2 5, not 1 4 5

I had it 1,2, and 5 too

same here
Then you guys do not agree that he scored it correctly...
He gave Melendez 1, 4, and 5. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 11:22 AM
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vincan469
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this is way worse situation when a monetary gain is involved versus having a friend fight.
4/21/13 11:24 AM
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pennviachoke
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the geek -

Hahahahahahaha Phone Post
4/21/13 11:26 AM
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GriffinQ
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Never gonna pay Taxes -
GriffinQ - 
sleepybear70 -
epic hero - 
Never gonna pay Taxes - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
epic hero - The one who scored it correctly too
I thought you all were saying 1, 2, 5 not 1, 4, 5? Phone Post

Yeah I definitely had it 1 2 5, not 1 4 5

I had it 1,2, and 5 too

same here
Then you guys do not agree that he scored it correctly...
He gave Melendez 1, 4, and 5. Phone Post 3.0

Just imo
No I'm fine with you scoring it however you feel it went.. I'm just saying, you can't say that score and then also say that you agreed with the judge. He didnt think Melendez won the second. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 11:26 AM
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AWdub
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GriffinQ -
Immaculata -
mijo - 
Immaculata - 
mijo - 
Immaculata - 
JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
Immaculata -
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Immaculata - 
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.

You don't see a probably with it though? This isn't a conspiracy. Ricardo Almeida is a good judge but can't judge any of Edgar's fights, but this guy can judge CGJJ fighters? You dont see the problem with the potential bias?


No. Absolutely not. The MMA World is a very small one. Do you really think this guy hangs out with Melendez on a regular basis? Has dinner with him and his Family? You guys want "Experienced" Judges who "train". Well, these judges need to come from somewhere! I can understand if this was a Nam Phan vs. Leonard Garcia type of Robbery, but you guys on here like to "reach" for reasons of conspiracy. It's crazy! The judge got it right in A LOT of people's opinions, including mine! There's no conspiracy here.

You don't have to be a BJJ student to be a good judge. 

The mma world is small but they couldn't find another judge for that 1 fight and Diaz' fight? This is why in boxing they bring in judges from all over the WORLD. Tonight in Canelo/Trout they had 1 from Texas, 1 from South Africa, and 1 from the Philippines. They could've got somebody from Cali who didn't have a direct connect to the camp. 

What conspiracy am I reaching for? It's a real problem, and the CSAC let it slip through the cracks. I'm not sure how you don't see the potential problem. It's bad for the sport, I think you're just looking past it because you agree with him. 


It's not a problem until there is a pattern of a Judge giving out gift decisions.
Why create the image of impropriety or even allow that to happen?

It shouldn't be allowed to get to a point where a judge makes multiple favored decisions.

One is TOO MANY.

As a result you err on the side of caution and not allow him to judge such fights. Phone Post

Again, I respect all of the opinions of the members here saying that there's a conflict of interest, but, The State is going to have Judges there from the State of California there. I'm just saying in the mma world there's a good chance that those Judges have had encounters with the Fighters from California. It's impossible not to be experienced and not have had encounters with experienced people in the sport (if you're qualified). If the said Judge had a Conflict of Interest I'm sure the Judge would have recused himself. The score of the fight did not reflect a conflict of interest.

Well I dont think he got the call right! He is a Ceasar Gracie student, and if you dont see the conflict of interest there. I feel sorry for you. This is bad for the sport, and to be honest I really dont have a problem with it, but it still does not make it right.

What if this was the other way around? Diaz and Ceasar Gracie would have already have done the paperwork for appeal.

You might not think he got the call right, but you can at least agree that it was a razor close fight. If you can't, then I feel sorry for YOU. There's no conspiracy here. Again, I was happy that this Judge is experienced enough to Judge an MMA fight. You can't have experienced Officials without having some kind of affiliation.

No conspiracy here right, and it was a close fight, and the true winner won the fight. Conflict of Interest still stands as is. Should not happen ever.

I disagree with you that the right fighter won. In a perfect MMA World, you would have experienced Judges who have trained in Boxing, Thai Boxing, Wrestling (Free and Greco) , and BJJ. Then you would have those people have at least a couple of fights/competitons under their belts, preferably winning. Then, have these people go through the proper training in the MMA Judging Criteria so that they understand how to Judge fights unbiasedly without any prejudice of But, unfortunately we don't have that. And it's going to be a while before we do. But in the meantime, can you stop being so nieve?
"I disagree with you that the right fighter won"

And THAT is why you continue to harp on about it not being an issue that a man who has potentially trained with Melendez, and who at the very least if FINANCIALLY CONNECTED to Melendez's coach was judging a Melendez fight. You say you'd raise the same points if Bendo won, but you don't think Bendo won, so why would you? Whether you think it is or not, it's unethical and incredibly shady to have a judge who has a clear and direct connection to the fighter in the cage. This fight had a judge who had that, and Lo and behold, that judge scored the fight for the fighter he had a connection with. His score should be negated and he shouldn't be allowed to judge for the CSAC anymore because there was an obvious bias present and he didnt disclose it. Even if Melendez had won all 5 rounds, there would still have been an obvious bias due to who that judge associates with. Phone Post 3.0
Nailed it. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 11:43 AM
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Alpinestar
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epic hero - The one who scored it correctly too

You don't get it because you're a fucking idiot.

The whole point of this topic is Vierra should not have sat in this fight to judge. He is affiliated with Caesar Gracie gym, therefore it is very easy for him to be impartial when the fight would go to a decision, which it did.

Personally, I thought Henderson edged out the decision win, even though it was a very close fight. But like I said, this is one corrupted officiating by California State Athletic Commission.
4/21/13 11:45 AM
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Chris27
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It was a close fight, thought Bendo won but the commission cant allow this guy to judge CGJJ fighters.

its like letting Almeida judge Frankie fights in NJ.
4/21/13 11:47 AM
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Secureg
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Doesn't mean anything because everyone pretty much thinks Gil won anyway. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 12:06 PM
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the geek
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So lets me ask the people who say this is no big deal a question.

If it turned out that the guy reading the scale at the weigh-ins for GSP vs Diaz owned an affiliated gym of and was a friend Firas Zahabi you would be completely ok with it? Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 12:09 PM
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12SixElbow
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You guys realize Gil isn't a Cesar Gracie guy right? He just learned BJJ from him.

Did you see Cesar or any of those guys in his corner? No. Gil has his own gym, his own team, etc...

Not to mention, a LOT of people scored the fight for Gil.

4/21/13 12:12 PM
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youarewhatiswrong
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ChaosOverkill - 
Immaculata - 
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Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.

You don't see a probably with it though? This isn't a conspiracy. Ricardo Almeida is a good judge but can't judge any of Edgar's fights, but this guy can judge CGJJ fighters? You dont see the problem with the potential bias?


No. Absolutely not. The MMA World is a very small one. Do you really think this guy hangs out with Melendez on a regular basis? Has dinner with him and his Family? You guys want "Experienced" Judges who "train". Well, these judges need to come from somewhere! I can understand if this was a Nam Phan vs. Leonard Garcia type of Robbery, but you guys on here like to "reach" for reasons of conspiracy. It's crazy! The judge got it right in A LOT of people's opinions, including mine! There's no conspiracy here.

 

How do you know for sure what his true feeling on the camp and it's fighters are?

 

there are plenty of judges from England and brazil that can be brought in for fights they are apprioately distanced  and unbiased for, so if we lack North American judges to do that it's just cheapness not solving it.

 

What if the fight had been even closer and he decises the fight for Gil when another when changes his close call to Gilb but it's close enough that Ben still still should have won based on strike numbers or whateve, then there is a conspiracy, where as all unbiased ones creates no potential either way.


Did he just wild each it, or is my brain shutting down?
4/21/13 12:18 PM
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Public got Bigg Riggd
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Never gonna pay Taxes - Not sure, but I had it Gil 1,2,5

It was a good fight though, I know they'll meet again soon

Would love to see Gil vs. Pettis, but I know Pettis is booked
Gil won in my oppinion Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 12:22 PM
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grimer
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Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.
It's completely besides the point whether he scored it properly or not. You can't do that. If a former player for the Knicks reffed a Knicks game in the playoffs do you think there would be something wrong with that? Phone Post

Exactly. The score is irrelevant. It's a conflict of interest and the fact that people may question his intents is why he never should have been put in this position to begin with.

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