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4/21/13 5:12 PM
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Dingleberry Flopdoink The 3rd
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Archangel -
UGCTT_WarHunt - 
Archangel - 
UGCTT_WarHunt - 
Archangel - i think its about time someone with some kind of background in the arts is judging. seems to have scored it fairly and professionally

I don't think it was fair or professional to Benson that there was a clear conflict of interest. But you aren't going to acknowledge that are you? That would expose your bias.

Bias? i dont care who wins i have no invested interest in either fighter.


My point may be that the judging is horrible. we collectively have had discussion on judges with some actual knowledge of the sport should be judging the contest. the problem i have always stated is just this. people will always cry fowl when they see that the judge has some connection to a fighter even when they score it correctly.


Stop drinking the tap water.

The right fighter won, he was given the nod by the two other judges who weren't biased. Because you and that judge are biased, you wrongly believe that gil won the fight. So you do not care about a conflict of interest as long as the judge agreed with your biased opinion.


what? i didnt even watch the fight. but based on your -absolute disregard that the fight was razor close and could have gone either way i would move to say the bias lies in your mouth along with bensons nuts.
You said "seems to have scored it fairly and professionally" and you didn't even watch the fight? Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 5:48 PM
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Jaybrone
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Masakyst - I'm not accusing the judge of being biased in his scoring, the fight being as close as it was. But he should not have been selected to judge this fight in the first place due to conflict of interest.

"But he should not have been selected to judge this fight in the first place due to conflict of interest."


why not? im genuinely curious.


team mates judge and ref fights all of the time. Do you believe no one can be an professional and have honor?


Yes it happens all the time in amature fights and small regional shows etc. But when it is a UFC title fight and the judges are assigned by the CSAC that is something that should have been noticed before hand. As Masakyst said I don't think he was being biased in scoring the fight for Melendez as it was an extremely close fight. But it never should have been an issue as the CSAC should have never assigned him to that fight.

4/21/13 6:33 PM
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Fabefromfort
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Yes Vierra I thought scored it properly. With extremely closer than close rounds 4 and 5 going to Melendez in my books. The entire fight was close, but rounds 4 and 5 I think were eked out with a couple of punches, clean shots, by Melendez near the ends of those rounds. I put a little more weight on Punches, than leg kicks. I just think thats how to judge these fights, and more weight on power punch shots, and/or cleaner shots.
4/21/13 7:20 PM
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slamming
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Garbage. Do commissions even do the slightest bit of due dilligence?

Good thing the right man won in the end.
4/21/13 7:28 PM
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Archangel
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so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?
4/21/13 7:32 PM
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Archangel
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Dingleberry Flopdoink The 3rd - 
Archangel -
UGCTT_WarHunt - 
Archangel - 
UGCTT_WarHunt - 
Archangel - i think its about time someone with some kind of background in the arts is judging. seems to have scored it fairly and professionally

I don't think it was fair or professional to Benson that there was a clear conflict of interest. But you aren't going to acknowledge that are you? That would expose your bias.

Bias? i dont care who wins i have no invested interest in either fighter.


My point may be that the judging is horrible. we collectively have had discussion on judges with some actual knowledge of the sport should be judging the contest. the problem i have always stated is just this. people will always cry fowl when they see that the judge has some connection to a fighter even when they score it correctly.


Stop drinking the tap water.

The right fighter won, he was given the nod by the two other judges who weren't biased. Because you and that judge are biased, you wrongly believe that gil won the fight. So you do not care about a conflict of interest as long as the judge agreed with your biased opinion.


what? i didnt even watch the fight. but based on your -absolute disregard that the fight was razor close and could have gone either way i would move to say the bias lies in your mouth along with bensons nuts.
You said "seems to have scored it fairly and professionally" and you didn't even watch the fight? Phone Post 3.0

that is the consensus correct? too close to call, either man won,there was no clear winner? the judges scored correctly , melendez may have had a slight advantage ? henderson slight advantage?
4/21/13 7:36 PM
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Chiron
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I don't see anything wrong with the way he scored the fight. Comparing it to how the fans and the other judges scored the fight, there's nothing indicating any wrong doing here.

Having said that, allowing an affiliate to judge a fighter at that level is entirely unacceptable when there are plenty of others who could have judged the fight.
4/21/13 7:38 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?
He wasn't biased?

Only judge that scored it for Melendez and the only judge that gave Gilbert the 4th round. Just cause the UG dislikes Bendo and wanted Gilbert to win doesn't mean the man did his job.

I'm not emailing anyone, I don't get paid by the CSAC so I'm not doing anyone's job for them. This was their fuck up. And no he shouldn't be able to judge CGJJ fighters fights, he's got a HL video of Melendez on his website.....do you see the problem with that? Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 7:42 PM
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Masakyst
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Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?

Nobody wants to punish the guy. There were a lot of other fights on the card that he could have judged where there was no conflict of interest due to an affiliation with one of the contestants.
4/21/13 7:48 PM
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12SixElbow
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GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?
He wasn't biased?

Only judge that scored it for Melendez and the only judge that gave Gilbert the 4th round. Just cause the UG dislikes Bendo and wanted Gilbert to win doesn't mean the man did his job.

I'm not emailing anyone, I don't get paid by the CSAC so I'm not doing anyone's job for them. This was their fuck up. And no he shouldn't be able to judge CGJJ fighters fights, he's got a HL video of Melendez on his website.....do you see the problem with that? Phone Post 3.0

 

big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?

4/21/13 7:57 PM
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grimer
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Anyone that doesn't see the issue with this has to be borderline retarded. It doesn't matter how he scored the fight. What people are saying, and rightfully so, is that someone who is in any way shape or form affiliated with a fighter should not be put in a position to judge their fight. It's called a conflict of interest.
4/21/13 8:04 PM
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jbapk
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Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?

You're being painfully stupid right now, and just making up nonsense points to justify your position.

Stop, think about what you're saying, and then come back to the thread.
4/21/13 8:06 PM
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jbapk
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12SixElbow - 
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?
He wasn't biased?

Only judge that scored it for Melendez and the only judge that gave Gilbert the 4th round. Just cause the UG dislikes Bendo and wanted Gilbert to win doesn't mean the man did his job.

I'm not emailing anyone, I don't get paid by the CSAC so I'm not doing anyone's job for them. This was their fuck up. And no he shouldn't be able to judge CGJJ fighters fights, he's got a HL video of Melendez on his website.....do you see the problem with that? Phone Post 3.0

 

big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?


I'm curious who all these people are that are "ok" with Big John's relationship?

Because that looks like a straw man argument you set up to divert attention from the main point of the thread.
4/21/13 8:07 PM
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the geek
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the geek - So lets me ask the people who say this is no big deal a question.

If it turned out that the guy reading the scale at the weigh-ins for GSP vs Diaz owned an affiliated gym of and was a friend Firas Zahabi you would be completely ok with it? Phone Post 3.0

Bueller???

4/21/13 8:34 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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UGCTT_WarHunt -
big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?


ref's don't decide the outcome of fights. ref's may interfere with fights to give an advantage but big john has a slim history of questionable calls relative to other refs. It's like the above poster said, just a straw man argument and to go further its a red herring as well.

That relationship is not really comparable to the judges relationship with gil.
. Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 9:36 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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the geek -
the geek - So lets me ask the people who say this is no big deal a question.

If it turned out that the guy reading the scale at the weigh-ins for GSP vs Diaz owned an affiliated gym of and was a friend Firas Zahabi you would be completely ok with it? Phone Post 3.0

Bueller???

UG would've shit it's pants and would be calling for GSP to be stripped and an immediate rematch Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 9:37 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove -
UGCTT_WarHunt - 
big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?


ref's don't decide the outcome of fights. ref's may interfere with fights to give an advantage but big john has a slim history of questionable calls relative to other refs. It's like the above poster said, just a straw man argument and to go further its a red herring as well.

That relationship is not really comparable to the judges relationship with gil.

This...plus, does Big John have highlight videos of and does he publically promote Benson on his website?

This. It's amazing people are ok with it since he favored the guy they wanted to win Phone Post 3.0
4/21/13 9:38 PM
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Another Foob
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
epic hero - The one who scored it correctly too
I thought you all were saying 1, 2, 5 not 1, 4, 5? Phone Post

My cat just jumped on my mouse and voted this down. I don't know what she had against your comment, but I told her to get her own account, and I'll vote you back up as soon as I can.
4/21/13 9:41 PM
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the geek
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GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
the geek -
the geek - So lets me ask the people who say this is no big deal a question.

If it turned out that the guy reading the scale at the weigh-ins for GSP vs Diaz owned an affiliated gym of and was a friend Firas Zahabi you would be completely ok with it? Phone Post 3.0

Bueller???

UG would've shit it's pants and would be calling for GSP to be stripped and an immediate rematch Phone Post 3.0

Yup Yup
4/21/13 11:17 PM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

Granted it didn't go to decision, but did this same judge oversee the Nate Diaz fight too?


No 

4/22/13 12:54 AM
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12SixElbow
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jbapk - 
12SixElbow - 
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?
He wasn't biased?

Only judge that scored it for Melendez and the only judge that gave Gilbert the 4th round. Just cause the UG dislikes Bendo and wanted Gilbert to win doesn't mean the man did his job.

I'm not emailing anyone, I don't get paid by the CSAC so I'm not doing anyone's job for them. This was their fuck up. And no he shouldn't be able to judge CGJJ fighters fights, he's got a HL video of Melendez on his website.....do you see the problem with that? Phone Post 3.0

 

big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?


I'm curious who all these people are that are "ok" with Big John's relationship?

Because that looks like a straw man argument you set up to divert attention from the main point of the thread.

You missed the point.

Or perhaps I didn't make it clear, who knows.

Its a loose affiliation, and a LOT of people scored the fight for Gil, nothing shady.

 

You can't pick on one loose affiliation, and not another. If you've got a problem with that guy reffing Gil's fight you should have a problem with John reffing Bendo's fight.

 

4/22/13 12:58 AM
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12SixElbow
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UGCTT_WarHunt - 
big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?


ref's don't decide the outcome of fights. ref's may interfere with fights to give an advantage but big john has a slim history of questionable calls relative to other refs. It's like the above poster said, just a straw man argument and to go further its a red herring as well.

That relationship is not really comparable to the judges relationship with gil.

Ref's don't decide the outcome of fights? You sure about that bro....

Ref's choose when to call it off in a TKO situation, just as much power as a judge. (A single judge is only 1 of 3, no one in there to stop a ref from stopping the fight).

Big John doesn't have a history of questionable calls, but this judge doesn't either.

Gil trained under the same BJJ instructor as the Judge, it isn't a big deal IMO. John's relationship with Bendo's head trainer is deeper than Gil's with that Judge.

 

4/22/13 1:02 AM
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JerodR
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Had Gil won that fight Benson would have had grounds to fight the decision for sure. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 2:27 AM
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GIBB0
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Anyone who is outta comfortable with this is showing true 209 bias.

And even if you gave Gil rd 2 I don't see how anyone could give him round 4.

It seems a lot like his guy was down 2-1 and he gave him the final 2 rounds. This probably isn't the case, but because of the huge conflict of interest that possibility has to be explored.

If one other judge gave it to Gil I think this would be declared a no contest in court and there'd be a rematch.

And the big John argument is dumb. If you train bjj you'd know there's a big difference between another one of your coach's high belts judging and your coaches coach's black belt refereeing.

I don't know many of my grand-coach's students and I'd happily compete against them in competition. I wouldn't compete against my coaches higher belts, at least not at 100%.

Also, the website promotion stuff makes it significantly worse. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 2:32 AM
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Tangerine Dream
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. Phone Post 3.0

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