UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Judge who scored it for Gilbert is a CGJJ Student?


4/22/13 2:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GIBB0
50 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/9/12
Posts: 900
Anyone who is outta comfortable with this is showing true 209 bias.

And even if you gave Gil rd 2 I don't see how anyone could give him round 4.

It seems a lot like his guy was down 2-1 and he gave him the final 2 rounds. This probably isn't the case, but because of the huge conflict of interest that possibility has to be explored.

If one other judge gave it to Gil I think this would be declared a no contest in court and there'd be a rematch.

And the big John argument is dumb. If you train bjj you'd know there's a big difference between another one of your coach's high belts judging and your coaches coach's black belt refereeing.

I don't know many of my grand-coach's students and I'd happily compete against them in competition. I wouldn't compete against my coaches higher belts, at least not at 100%.

Also, the website promotion stuff makes it significantly worse. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 2:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tangerine Dream
42 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/18/11
Posts: 1311
. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 3:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
616 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 17000
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
12SixElbow - 
jbapk - 
12SixElbow - 
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Archangel - so the argument is he could have been biased but WASNT and we should email the commission because of this?

so a guy does his job and he shou;d be punished and any GJJ guys shouldnt be allowed to judge?
He wasn't biased?

Only judge that scored it for Melendez and the only judge that gave Gilbert the 4th round. Just cause the UG dislikes Bendo and wanted Gilbert to win doesn't mean the man did his job.

I'm not emailing anyone, I don't get paid by the CSAC so I'm not doing anyone's job for them. This was their fuck up. And no he shouldn't be able to judge CGJJ fighters fights, he's got a HL video of Melendez on his website.....do you see the problem with that? Phone Post 3.0

 

big John (the ref for the fight) and Bendo's trainer are both former student's of Royce.

Both friends, with strong family ties to the Gracie's. (They have trained together)

You're ok with that, but not with Gil and a judge both being former student's of Cesar's?


I'm curious who all these people are that are "ok" with Big John's relationship?

Because that looks like a straw man argument you set up to divert attention from the main point of the thread.

You missed the point.

Or perhaps I didn't make it clear, who knows.

Its a loose affiliation, and a LOT of people scored the fight for Gil, nothing shady.

 

You can't pick on one loose affiliation, and not another. If you've got a problem with that guy reffing Gil's fight you should have a problem with John reffing Bendo's fight.

 


It's shocking to me that you can't seem to understand the difference.  Vierra is an affiliate of Cesar's, which is Melendez's camp.  It would be similar if Big John was an affiliate of The Lab in Glendale, AZ.  Not surprising that you ignored this the first time it was brought up, but can you direct me a Big Johns website where he promotes Benson Henderson directly?


Cesar's is NOT melendez's camp. Gil has his own camp, his own gym, NOT a CGJJ affiliate school, in a different city, etc....

 

It appears you don't understand.

 

4/22/13 4:21 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ender852
117 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/10/10
Posts: 3337
Another Foob - 
Condit's Face Broke My Hand - 
epic hero - The one who scored it correctly too
I thought you all were saying 1, 2, 5 not 1, 4, 5? Phone Post

My cat just jumped on my mouse and voted this down. I don't know what she had against your comment, but I told her to get her own account, and I'll vote you back up as soon as I can.

the vote down stands you son of a bitch, don't you realize the internet is ruled by cats?

whiskers has spoken!!

boo this man!!

4/22/13 9:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack Slack
1765 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/2/12
Posts: 1525
GayGuardMooseSaucy - 


This. Is. Amazing.

4/22/13 10:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Masakyst
44 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/23/10
Posts: 3765
Cesar's is NOT melendez's camp. Gil has his own camp, his own gym, NOT a CGJJ affiliate school, in a different city, etc....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Melendez
His team is listed as Cesar Gracie Jiu Jitsu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Gracie_Jiu-Jitsu
Gil is listed on the roster

Gil does have his own gym, but to say that he is not a part of the CGJJ team is disingenuous

4/22/13 10:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Black Cheez
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/17/12
Posts: 198
Eh, this is bound to happen in combat sports. Doesn't mean it's a conspiracy or anything, just means some judges are going to be a little biased sometimes. Not condoning it, but it really only matters when someone is fucked over in my opinion. I do agree, however, that judges should not be biased. Phone Post
4/22/13 10:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Cyril Jeff
186 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/29/09
Posts: 11775
twitter = @theCyrildotcom

 

1,2, & 5 imo, even if Gil was my brother, I would have scored it that way...

4/22/13 11:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BigWilliam
275 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/7/05
Posts: 21018
The CSAC is to blame for this. They should have known and excluded that judge from that fight.
4/22/13 11:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Yussarian
31 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/23/12
Posts: 160
JerodR - Had Gil won that fight Benson would have had grounds to fight the decision for sure. Phone Post 3.0

That, and even though Gil was very impressive, to be the champ you got to beat the champ. These close scores will almost always lean towards the champ. Looks like a rematch is justified simply because these guys form such a compelling challenge for one another. Great performance from both guys.

4/22/13 12:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
QQmoar
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/23/09
Posts: 18
The Fight was close.. and Close fights normally should side with the champ.. TO be the champ you should beat the champ.. not make it so close people come to the UG and complain about it
4/22/13 1:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rockethands33
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 04/22/13 1:24 PM
Member Since: 11/21/06
Posts: 10
A couple of clarity points about MMA Judging here:

There is no such thing as "to be the champ, you have to beat the champ". There is no additional earning potential that a challenger has to overcome. Good judges do not take that into consideration.

When it comes to a decision, there is no such thing as winning a "fight". Judges score rounds, not bouts. If a fighter wins the majority of the rounds, they win the fight.

In an MMA decision, you only have to win the majority of the battles, not the war.

There is no "stealing rounds" in MMA.

There are no "points scored" or counting of strikes, takedowns, sub attempts, etc. It's the effectiveness of those actions.

A close round is a close round. The term "robbery" doesn't apply to a close round. That being said, if there are 3 or 4 close rounds in a five round bout, again, the term "robbery" does not apply.

If you really want to know the real information about MMA Judging, go to a class taught by an approved expert on this subject.

As far as the impropriety of the CA Commission allowing a conflict of interest oversee that bout... Agreed. Shouldn't be happening in modern MMA.
4/22/13 1:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rockethands33
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/21/06
Posts: 11
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

"A close round is a close round. The term "robbery" doesn't apply to a close round. That being said, if there are 3 or 4 close rounds in a five round bout, again, the term "robbery" does not apply."

Ya, but when there's a conflict of interest and if these close rounds tend to go to your affiliated fighter, that is a problem.

 

Agreed, Rampage. Conflict of interest is unacceptable anytime, anywhere.
4/22/13 1:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MMA Playwrite
722 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/7/04
Posts: 5734
rockethands33 - A couple of clarity points about MMA Judging here:

There is no such thing as "to be the champ, you have to beat the champ". There is no additional earning potential that a challenger has to overcome. Good judges do not take that into consideration.

When it comes to a decision, there is no such thing as winning a "fight". Judges score rounds, not bouts. If a fighter wins the majority of the rounds, they win the fight.

In an MMA decision, you only have to win the majority of the battles, not the war.

There is no "stealing rounds" in MMA.

There are no "points scored" or counting of strikes, takedowns, sub attempts, etc. It's the effectiveness of those actions.

A close round is a close round. The term "robbery" doesn't apply to a close round. That being said, if there are 3 or 4 close rounds in a five round bout, again, the term "robbery" does not apply.

If you really want to know the real information about MMA Judging, go to a class taught by an approved expert on this subject.

As far as the impropriety of the CA Commission allowing a conflict of interest oversee that bout... Agreed. Shouldn't be happening in modern MMA.

This is all correct.
4/22/13 3:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
616 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 17003
Masakyst - 
Cesar's is NOT melendez's camp. Gil has his own camp, his own gym, NOT a CGJJ affiliate school, in a different city, etc....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Melendez
His team is listed as Cesar Gracie Jiu Jitsu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Gracie_Jiu-Jitsu
Gil is listed on the roster

Gil does have his own gym, but to say that he is not a part of the CGJJ team is disingenuous


Cesar lists that judges gym as the only CGJJ affiliate school (Not Gil's)

you linked Wikipedia......

http://elninomma.com/

Where does Gil's site link to, or mention CGJJ? It lists BJJ, and American JJ.

Was Cesar in JakesGil's Corner? If he was I didn't notice him.

Sherdog has his association listed as the SKrap pack (Click it, no CGJJ guys in it)

Gil has always mentioned the Skrap Pack

etc...

 

Cesar WAS his BJJ coach, thats all. He isn't a regular CGJJ guy like Nick and Nate.

Gil and Jake have always done thier own thing.

 

4/22/13 6:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Jack_Bauer
76 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/13/11
Posts: 705
Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.

4/22/13 6:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGCTT_CloudStrife
267 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/2/12
Posts: 657

So lets say in 5 years Greg Jackson decides he is tired of training fighters and retires. He is arguably one of the most knowledgable trainers in point fighting and would make a terrific judge knowing all the ins and outs of the sport.  Lets say as a part time gig he decides he wants to become an MMA judge. He would definitely make a great one knowing what he knows.  Would you people that see nothing wrong with this be okay with him being a judge on a Jon Jones title defense?  I mean he could do it and be a great judge but would that make it right to allow it in the first place?  I understand this is a small sport and people will know each other but are you telling me they couldn't put together 3 judges that have no affiliation with the two people in the fight? The guy has every right to be a judge but he should not have been a judge in this fight.

 

And also, this was a very close fight and I don't see anything wrong with the way he judged it but the fact is he shouldn't have been a judge for this particular fight.

4/22/13 6:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
the geek
153 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/07
Posts: 6827
^^^ the correct. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 7:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
616 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 17004
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
12SixElbow - 
Masakyst - 
Cesar's is NOT melendez's camp. Gil has his own camp, his own gym, NOT a CGJJ affiliate school, in a different city, etc....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Melendez
His team is listed as Cesar Gracie Jiu Jitsu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Gracie_Jiu-Jitsu
Gil is listed on the roster

Gil does have his own gym, but to say that he is not a part of the CGJJ team is disingenuous


Cesar lists that judges gym as the only CGJJ affiliate school (Not Gil's)

you linked Wikipedia......

http://elninomma.com/

Where does Gil's site link to, or mention CGJJ? It lists BJJ, and American JJ.

Was Cesar in JakesGil's Corner? If he was I didn't notice him.

Sherdog has his association listed as the SKrap pack (Click it, no CGJJ guys in it)

Gil has always mentioned the Skrap Pack

etc...

 

Cesar WAS his BJJ coach, thats all. He isn't a regular CGJJ guy like Nick and Nate.

Gil and Jake have always done thier own thing.

 


Just stop..

If your point is that Gilbert and Cesar have no affiliation you're an idiot.  And why do you continue to ignore the direct connection with the judge and Gilbert?  As has been brought up many times, Wade Vierra promotes Gil on his website.  Why do you link Gilberts and not Wades?


I'm an idiot?

They both trained under the same guy, in the past...

He promotes him? Or he has a highlight video of him?

4/22/13 7:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
616 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 17005
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 

"Cesar WAS his BJJ coach, thats all. He isn't a regular CGJJ guy like Nick and Nate."

Was his BJJ coach?  Are you saying he doesn't train BJJ anymore?  When did he stop?

And Nick and Nate also have their own school.... in a different city.... and according to you is not an affiliate guy.


Do you follow gil at all?

He's been working with Jake running his own gym and doing AJJ for a while now.

 

4/22/13 7:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Immaculata
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 22536
TITAN Combat/TITAN Grappling Open, Promoter
Jack_Bauer - 
Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.


I apologize if that's how I came off, I didn't intend to. When I 1st posted, I didn't have all the information. I thought he was just some student at an affiliate school. Apparently there's more to it. There is an absolute conflict of interest and shouldn't have been allowed. I take back all my former posts on this thread. There's no way he should've been allowed to judge that fight regardless of how he scored it. Gay guard, mijo and others, you were right and I was wrong.
4/22/13 7:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
time traveling 12er
189 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/11
Posts: 1180

This is certainly more shady than "weird" looking wraps that were already checked and a supposed .5 weight difference that may or may not have even happened.  lol.  Pretty much anyone who complained about those but is not here crying about this one is looking foolish right now.

4/22/13 7:40 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jbapk
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10903
12SixElbow - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
12SixElbow - 
Masakyst - 
Cesar's is NOT melendez's camp. Gil has his own camp, his own gym, NOT a CGJJ affiliate school, in a different city, etc....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Melendez
His team is listed as Cesar Gracie Jiu Jitsu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Gracie_Jiu-Jitsu
Gil is listed on the roster

Gil does have his own gym, but to say that he is not a part of the CGJJ team is disingenuous


Cesar lists that judges gym as the only CGJJ affiliate school (Not Gil's)

you linked Wikipedia......

http://elninomma.com/

Where does Gil's site link to, or mention CGJJ? It lists BJJ, and American JJ.

Was Cesar in JakesGil's Corner? If he was I didn't notice him.

Sherdog has his association listed as the SKrap pack (Click it, no CGJJ guys in it)

Gil has always mentioned the Skrap Pack

etc...

 

Cesar WAS his BJJ coach, thats all. He isn't a regular CGJJ guy like Nick and Nate.

Gil and Jake have always done thier own thing.

 


Just stop..

If your point is that Gilbert and Cesar have no affiliation you're an idiot.  And why do you continue to ignore the direct connection with the judge and Gilbert?  As has been brought up many times, Wade Vierra promotes Gil on his website.  Why do you link Gilberts and not Wades?


I'm an idiot?

They both trained under the same guy, in the past...

He promotes him? Or he has a highlight video of him?


Yes, you are most certainly an idiot.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/10/28/3568398/strikeforce-cesar-gracie-gilbert-melendez-shoulder-surgery-mma-news

Oct 28 2012

"Strikeforce lightweight champion Gilbert Melendez was forced out of his last bout with Pat Healy due to a shoulder injury, which led to the cancellation of the event. Another event cancellation followed, but Strikeforce GM Scott Coker said they'd put on a stacked card in January. Will Melendez be on that card? According to his coach Cesar Gracie in an interview with Tatame, no one's really sure when he'll be back:"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1438502-cesar-gracie-says-benson-henderson-vs-gilbert-melendez-is-the-fight-to-make

December 9, 2012

"However, Diaz's head coach remained in generally good spirits in a post-fight interview with Ariel Helwani, mainly because one of his fighters still has a chance to go toe-to-toe with "Bendo:" Gilbert Melendez"

http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2012/1029/551299/nate-diaz/

October 29, 2012

"If the UFC decides to bring the current Strikeforce Lightweight Champion Gilbert Melendez (21-2) over, there will be no fighting between teammates, according to Cesar Gracie. That means a possible a fight with Nate Diaz (16-7) is off the table. Both fighters currently train out of Cesar Gracie Jiu-Jitsu."
4/22/13 8:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GayGuardMooseSaucy
474 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/4/11
Posts: 11120
Immaculata -
Jack_Bauer - 
Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.


I apologize if that's how I came off, I didn't intend to. When I 1st posted, I didn't have all the information. I thought he was just some student at an affiliate school. Apparently there's more to it. There is an absolute conflict of interest and shouldn't have been allowed. I take back all my former posts on this thread. There's no way he should've been allowed to judge that fight regardless of how he scored it. Gay guard, mijo and others, you were right and I was wrong.
Respect Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 8:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GayGuardMooseSaucy
474 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/4/11
Posts: 11121
jbapk -
12SixElbow - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove - 
12SixElbow - 
Masakyst - 
Cesar's is NOT melendez's camp. Gil has his own camp, his own gym, NOT a CGJJ affiliate school, in a different city, etc....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Melendez
His team is listed as Cesar Gracie Jiu Jitsu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Gracie_Jiu-Jitsu
Gil is listed on the roster

Gil does have his own gym, but to say that he is not a part of the CGJJ team is disingenuous


Cesar lists that judges gym as the only CGJJ affiliate school (Not Gil's)

you linked Wikipedia......

http://elninomma.com/

Where does Gil's site link to, or mention CGJJ? It lists BJJ, and American JJ.

Was Cesar in JakesGil's Corner? If he was I didn't notice him.

Sherdog has his association listed as the SKrap pack (Click it, no CGJJ guys in it)

Gil has always mentioned the Skrap Pack

etc...

 

Cesar WAS his BJJ coach, thats all. He isn't a regular CGJJ guy like Nick and Nate.

Gil and Jake have always done thier own thing.

 


Just stop..

If your point is that Gilbert and Cesar have no affiliation you're an idiot.  And why do you continue to ignore the direct connection with the judge and Gilbert?  As has been brought up many times, Wade Vierra promotes Gil on his website.  Why do you link Gilberts and not Wades?


I'm an idiot?

They both trained under the same guy, in the past...

He promotes him? Or he has a highlight video of him?


Yes, you are most certainly an idiot.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/10/28/3568398/strikeforce-cesar-gracie-gilbert-melendez-shoulder-surgery-mma-news

Oct 28 2012

"Strikeforce lightweight champion Gilbert Melendez was forced out of his last bout with Pat Healy due to a shoulder injury, which led to the cancellation of the event. Another event cancellation followed, but Strikeforce GM Scott Coker said they'd put on a stacked card in January. Will Melendez be on that card? According to his coach Cesar Gracie in an interview with Tatame, no one's really sure when he'll be back:"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1438502-cesar-gracie-says-benson-henderson-vs-gilbert-melendez-is-the-fight-to-make

December 9, 2012

"However, Diaz's head coach remained in generally good spirits in a post-fight interview with Ariel Helwani, mainly because one of his fighters still has a chance to go toe-to-toe with "Bendo:" Gilbert Melendez"

http://www.fightline.com/fl/news/2012/1029/551299/nate-diaz/

October 29, 2012

"If the UFC decides to bring the current Strikeforce Lightweight Champion Gilbert Melendez (21-2) over, there will be no fighting between teammates, according to Cesar Gracie. That means a possible a fight with Nate Diaz (16-7) is off the table. Both fighters currently train out of Cesar Gracie Jiu-Jitsu."
Well Well Well

What do we have here? Phone Post 3.0

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.