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UnderGround Forums >> Judge who scored it for Gilbert is a CGJJ Student?


4/22/13 8:57 PM
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GIBB0
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KingofBJJ -
rockethands33 - A couple of clarity points about MMA Judging here:

There is no such thing as "to be the champ, you have to beat the champ". There is no additional earning potential that a challenger has to overcome. Good judges do not take that into consideration.

When it comes to a decision, there is no such thing as winning a "fight". Judges score rounds, not bouts. If a fighter wins the majority of the rounds, they win the fight.

In an MMA decision, you only have to win the majority of the battles, not the war.

There is no "stealing rounds" in MMA.

There are no "points scored" or counting of strikes, takedowns, sub attempts, etc. It's the effectiveness of those actions.

A close round is a close round. The term "robbery" doesn't apply to a close round. That being said, if there are 3 or 4 close rounds in a five round bout, again, the term "robbery" does not apply.

If you really want to know the real information about MMA Judging, go to a class taught by an approved expert on this subject.

As far as the impropriety of the CA Commission allowing a conflict of interest oversee that bout... Agreed. Shouldn't be happening in modern MMA.

Of course you have to "beat the champ, to be the champ". The concept was first used in boxing, when most people felt that it wasn't good enough to beat the champ on points, you had to knock him out.

If you want the belt you need to get out their and take it like Rampage did. Like Jone Jones did. Like Anderson Silva did. In boxing, like Muhammed Ali did. Like Mike Tyson did.

Eeking a out a decision, split or otherwise that could have went either is not a way to win. You need to clearly dominate the Champion.

Other than that I agree with some reservations about the rest of your post about "Stealing rounds" and "robbery".

I disagree about that so-called conflict of interest.

In order to be a conflict of interest, you have to show that both the persons being charged and the other person being evaluated have a direct connection to each other, such as owing some favor, friend, family member, business transaction etc.

There was nothing direct here. It is long shot to tie a regulator to some guy who trained at one of the schools of a buddy of his that he is affiliated with.
There is a direct connection

The judge has a Melendez highlight on his front page. He benefits from Melendez winning.

And they train under the same head coach. There can't be any assumed reason for bias. Most people would favor their coaches student and even if he say "I'm professional I won't do that" that's not good enough. You're asking us to take his word for it.

When he was told he was judging Gil he should have asked one of the other judges to swap and judged the Mir fight.

It's very shady. Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 11:50 PM
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goeb
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this should be a major black eye for the CSAC.

I hope to hear that they understood that they made a mistake and will go through a more rigorous due diligence process in the future.

If Gilbert won it would've hurt his credibility as champ.
4/23/13 1:17 AM
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FingerorMoon
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UGCTT_CloudStrife - 

So lets say in 5 years Greg Jackson decides he is tired of training fighters and retires. He is arguably one of the most knowledgable trainers in point fighting and would make a terrific judge knowing all the ins and outs of the sport.  Lets say as a part time gig he decides he wants to become an MMA judge. He would definitely make a great one knowing what he knows.  Would you people that see nothing wrong with this be okay with him being a judge on a Jon Jones title defense?  I mean he could do it and be a great judge but would that make it right to allow it in the first place?  I understand this is a small sport and people will know each other but are you telling me they couldn't put together 3 judges that have no affiliation with the two people in the fight? The guy has every right to be a judge but he should not have been a judge in this fight.

 

And also, this was a very close fight and I don't see anything wrong with the way he judged it but the fact is he shouldn't have been a judge for this particular fight.



Greg Jackson has no problem screwing over his students so I think everyone knows he'd be a very impartial judge.


Heyyo!!
4/23/13 3:53 AM
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Jack_Bauer
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Immaculata - 
Jack_Bauer - 
Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.


I apologize if that's how I came off, I didn't intend to. When I 1st posted, I didn't have all the information. I thought he was just some student at an affiliate school. Apparently there's more to it. There is an absolute conflict of interest and shouldn't have been allowed. I take back all my former posts on this thread. There's no way he should've been allowed to judge that fight regardless of how he scored it. Gay guard, mijo and others, you were right and I was wrong.

All in good fun, friend.

4/23/13 9:16 AM
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fight4real
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Kirik, more fighters and retired fighters as refs and judges is the answer in my opinion. The problem is the resistance by the majority who doesn't fit that description. I can't think of many people in the commission who would give up their position to put more credible and experienced people in their own spot.

4/23/13 9:31 AM
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C4mac
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This is a pretty big black eye for the AC.  Conflict of interest used to be something that was taken into account.

4/23/13 11:18 AM
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blueheron20816
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while a clear case for bias could be made, the fact of the matter is that Vierra and Bell agreed on every round but the 4th. Cleary was the oddball of the group. Just sayin.
4/23/13 12:15 PM
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georgejonesjr
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GayGuardMooseSaucy - 
Immaculata -
Jack_Bauer - 
Immaculata - He was the one that scored it properly. You guys and your silly conspiracy theories.


I apologize if that's how I came off, I didn't intend to. When I 1st posted, I didn't have all the information. I thought he was just some student at an affiliate school. Apparently there's more to it. There is an absolute conflict of interest and shouldn't have been allowed. I take back all my former posts on this thread. There's no way he should've been allowed to judge that fight regardless of how he scored it. Gay guard, mijo and others, you were right and I was wrong.
Respect Phone Post 3.0

Same. Most of us get things wrong sometimes, wish more of us (myself included) were as good at owning up to it when all the facts come in.
4/23/13 12:25 PM
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nexus6ca
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One thing that people haven't seemed to comment on in all the posts about how the atheletic commisions allowed this is: In a situation of clear conflict of interest, the judge should have reclused himself voluntarialy.
4/23/13 1:23 PM
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Jaybrone
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rockethands33 - A couple of clarity points about MMA Judging here:

There is no such thing as "to be the champ, you have to beat the champ". There is no additional earning potential that a challenger has to overcome. Good judges do not take that into consideration.

When it comes to a decision, there is no such thing as winning a "fight". Judges score rounds, not bouts. If a fighter wins the majority of the rounds, they win the fight.

In an MMA decision, you only have to win the majority of the battles, not the war.

There is no "stealing rounds" in MMA.

There are no "points scored" or counting of strikes, takedowns, sub attempts, etc. It's the effectiveness of those actions.

A close round is a close round. The term "robbery" doesn't apply to a close round. That being said, if there are 3 or 4 close rounds in a five round bout, again, the term "robbery" does not apply.

If you really want to know the real information about MMA Judging, go to a class taught by an approved expert on this subject.

As far as the impropriety of the CA Commission allowing a conflict of interest oversee that bout... Agreed. Shouldn't be happening in modern MMA.

VTFU awesome post.

4/23/13 9:42 PM
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HexRei
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Condit's Face Broke My Hand -  Lhis is the second time something like this has happened this year. When will these commissions/judges learn?

Also who's decision was it that the one judges middle earth style mustache was okay for UFC on Fox? Just makes the sport look bad. Phone Post

I think its a tough situation, when you are trying to select three judges to handle a whole card. On the one hand, we want judges with extensive experience in the disciplines that compose MMA so that they are knowledgeable regarding what they are judging. On the other hand we want them to have no ties to any fighter or camp/gym/dojo that a fighter might be a part of.

But how can they be sufficiently experienced without developing these kinds of ties, associations, affiliations, friendships, rivalries, etc? I'd guess that any three judges you pick, if you look hard enough you will find some kind of link to some fighter or gym being represented on the card, at the elite level of the UFC.
4/23/13 10:16 PM
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HexRei
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^^^^^I guess I just never noticed them rotating out between bouts. If that's the case, then yeah, if you have a pool of five or six for the night the excuses are a lot more difficult to make.


Also I think "recusing" is a better word than "excusing" there. :)

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