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UnderGround Forums >> Report: JBJ only surpassed by Sugar Ray Robinson


4/24/13 6:31 PM
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mikerobmma
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UGSlapshot - He should be compared to boxers because their boxers not MMA fighters.

I was under the impression boxing has a lot more competitors and therefore stiffer competition than mma had or has.

Either way it's like comparing the greatest football team to the greatest rugby team, it really doesn't work. Phone Post
If MMA had as many cans as boxing has, I'd be like 20-2 right now. Elite fighters like JBJ would be 45-1.

People talking about the depth of boxing seem to forget how many cans exist solely for the purpose of building guys records just so they can eventually cash out. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 6:34 PM
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Lazer MMA
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eljamaiquino - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
UGCTT_nightkap - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -

I saw this earlier today. It's an interesting article. Jones will definitely go down as the GOAT in MMA (at least IMO).

Yes he will















Right below Silva
Phone Post

He's a far more complete fighter than Silva, and tbh he's already fought better competition than Anderson has.

Reasonable men can differ, but I just think that Jones has more tools in his arsenal, will beat Silva when they fight, and when it's all said and done will be considered a better fighter.

He's not more complete than Silva. He's great in wrestling, but Silva is great in striking, and better at BJJ. If bones had Anderson's reach, his striking and Bjj would be viewed totally different. Jones cannot even slip a punch. He literally turned and ran away from Rampage, and his long arms are a key to all his chokes. If you said GSP was better all around, you might have a point, but Jones' reach and physique are a deciding factor in all of his wins. Phone Post


AS has likewise Physical advantage over most of his comp. He's a tall man with very good reach too.

JBJ had fought much much better. If AS fought nearly almost the same comp. there would be nothing to talk about. According to many JBJ has surpassed AS. Hopefully, he'll challenge JBJ and we'll see.
4/24/13 6:36 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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eljamaiquino - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
UGCTT_nightkap - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -

I saw this earlier today. It's an interesting article. Jones will definitely go down as the GOAT in MMA (at least IMO).

Yes he will















Right below Silva
Phone Post

He's a far more complete fighter than Silva, and tbh he's already fought better competition than Anderson has.

Reasonable men can differ, but I just think that Jones has more tools in his arsenal, will beat Silva when they fight, and when it's all said and done will be considered a better fighter.

He's not more complete than Silva. He's great in wrestling, but Silva is great in striking, and better at BJJ. If bones had Anderson's reach, his striking and Bjj would be viewed totally different. Jones cannot even slip a punch. He literally turned and ran away from Rampage, and his long arms are a key to all his chokes. If you said GSP was better all around, you might have a point, but Jones' reach and physique are a deciding factor in all of his wins. Phone Post

I think I've had this argument with you before, but I'll reiterate.

How exactly does Silva have better BJJ than Jones? Silva has been submitted twice. Jones has never been submitted. Jones has 6 submissions in an 18 fight career, Anderson has 6 submissions in a 37 fight career.

Anderson has UFC submissions over Lutter, Henderson and Sonnen. Jones has UFC submissions over Machida, Vitor, O'Brien, Rampage, and Bader.

Since when is the ability to "slip a punch" the measuring stick of a fighter's striking ability? I saw Jones outstrike Shogun, Machida, Rampage, Vitor and Evans. I think he's pretty good in the standup.

4/24/13 6:40 PM
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Lazer MMA
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"Since when is the ability to "slip a punch" the measuring stick of a fighter's striking ability?"

Wait one second boss.

Defensive striking is a HUGE deal when talking about being a 'complete striker' and even I (no fan of AS) admit he's the best defensive striker in the game (and striker overall for that reason).

The rest of your post is sound IMO.
4/24/13 6:47 PM
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minotauro11
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -
minotauro11 - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -

I saw this earlier today. It's an interesting article. Jones will definitely go down as the GOAT in MMA (at least IMO).

I don't know. It depends how his run at Heavyweight goes. As of now he has been very impressive but every big name he has beaten has either been a middleweight or on the downside of their careers with the exception of Machida. I'm not trying to shit all over his accomplishments because there's no doubt what he has done is incredible but I'd like to see more before claiming he's the GOAT. Phone Post 3.0

They're not "middleweights". If you're referring to Machida, Shogun, and Evans, then you're wrong.  Just because some guys are smaller at the weight, it doesn't mean that they'd be better at MW.  Evans, Machida and Shogun are 3 of the most accomplished LHWs in history and have never even fought at MW, so I'm not sure what you're point is.

And no doubt that Anderson is the GOAT. It's not even close between him and Jones at the moment. I was saying that Jones will go down as the GOAT when he retires.

Jones has already fought better competition than Anderson has (IMO).  The Shogun, Rampage, Machida and Evans wins were better than Anderson's 4 best wins (Henderson, Vitor, Forrest and Sonnen).

I'm referring to Vitor and Chael when I mentioned middleweights. Rashad, Machida and Shogun could all make middleweight but that wasn't the point I was making. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 6:48 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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Lazer MMA - 
"Since when is the ability to "slip a punch" the measuring stick of a fighter's striking ability?"

Wait one second boss.

Defensive striking is a HUGE deal when talking about being a 'complete striker' and even I (no fan of AS) admit he's the best defensive striker in the game (and striker overall for that reason).

The rest of your post is sound IMO.

I'll clarify. I think if you can slip a punch the way Anderson did against Forrest, then that is a mark of a great striker.  But just because you don't slip punches or choose not to (like Jones does), it doesn't mean you're not a great striker.

He uses range-finding kicks and his reach as his striking defence, whereas Anderson uses angles and head movement. Both have been equally effective (Jones has never been rocked on the feet, Anderson has against Sonnen).

4/24/13 6:50 PM
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minotauro11
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Shogun was coming off being the first man ever to beat Machida (by KO no less) when he fought Jones, Rampage had beaten Machida and Hamill back-to-back before he fought Jones, and Rashad was on a 4 fight win streak over Thiago Silva, Rampage, Ortiz and Phil Davis before he fought Jones.

Shogun was coming off knee injury and has only won 1 fight since, which came way too difficultly.

Rampage's win over Machida was extremely controversial and the win over Hamill was anything but impressive. He hasn't won a fight since.

Rashad came off an injury, beat Tito, looked bad against Jones, looked worse against Nogueira. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 7:01 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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minotauro11 - 
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Shogun was coming off being the first man ever to beat Machida (by KO no less) when he fought Jones, Rampage had beaten Machida and Hamill back-to-back before he fought Jones, and Rashad was on a 4 fight win streak over Thiago Silva, Rampage, Ortiz and Phil Davis before he fought Jones.

Shogun was coming off knee injury and has only won 1 fight since, which came way too difficultly.

Rampage's win over Machida was extremely controversial and the win over Hamill was anything but impressive. He hasn't won a fight since.

Rashad came off an injury, beat Tito, looked bad against Jones, looked worse against Nogueira. Phone Post 3.0

I'll give you Rampage. Shogun is debatable. You're flat-out wrong vis-a-vis Rashad. Rashad was in his prime and just got outclassed by a far superior fighter.

He looked bad against Jones because Jones is so much better. Losing to Jones so definitively had him talking about retirement, which I believe is the reason for his performance against Nog. That and an awful gameplan.

4/24/13 7:10 PM
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DoomFarmer
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It could all change in an instant when he gets to HW.

Far too early for GOAT talk.

You don't get put into that range until you demonstrate longetevity.

Greatest LHW of all time? Sure.
4/24/13 7:30 PM
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Mark Hunts Pet Monkey
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Jon Jones' accomplishments are even further magnified by the sheer fact that just like Frankie Edgar, he got to the top consistently beating much bigger physically imposing opponents...wait.. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 7:58 PM
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UGSlapshot
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mikerobmma -
UGSlapshot - He should be compared to boxers because their boxers not MMA fighters.

I was under the impression boxing has a lot more competitors and therefore stiffer competition than mma had or has.

Either way it's like comparing the greatest football team to the greatest rugby team, it really doesn't work. Phone Post
If MMA had as many cans as boxing has, I'd be like 20-2 right now. Elite fighters like JBJ would be 45-1.

People talking about the depth of boxing seem to forget how many cans exist solely for the purpose of building guys records just so they can eventually cash out. Phone Post 3.0
Well of course it works both ways. Theoretically if you had a talent ladle and could scoop up talented fighters I would assume you would end up with more fighters from boxing.

I quit watching boxing, mma is just a more complete form of combat in prize fighting.

That said who knows both sports lag behind team sports when it comes to athletic talent.

I don't think that will ever change or at least not for a long time, athletes get paid far too much in team sports for combat sports to compete for attention for the most part. Phone Post
4/27/13 3:10 PM
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minotauro11
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minotauro11 - 
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Shogun was coming off being the first man ever to beat Machida (by KO no less) when he fought Jones, Rampage had beaten Machida and Hamill back-to-back before he fought Jones, and Rashad was on a 4 fight win streak over Thiago Silva, Rampage, Ortiz and Phil Davis before he fought Jones.

Shogun was coming off knee injury and has only won 1 fight since, which came way too difficultly.

Rampage's win over Machida was extremely controversial and the win over Hamill was anything but impressive. He hasn't won a fight since.

Rashad came off an injury, beat Tito, looked bad against Jones, looked worse against Nogueira. Phone Post 3.0

I'll give you Rampage. Shogun is debatable. You're flat-out wrong vis-a-vis Rashad. Rashad was in his prime and just got outclassed by a far superior fighter.

He looked bad against Jones because Jones is so much better. Losing to Jones so definitively had him talking about retirement, which I believe is the reason for his performance against Nog. That and an awful gameplan.

Yeah I could be wrong about Rashad. Time will tell. I disagree about gameplan being the problem against Nogueira though, to a certain extent. Every time he tried to engage on the feet he got clipped and Nogueira stuffed all of his takedowns easily. Whether the takedown defense is credited to Nogueira (which I'm sure it is in part) or if Rashad is slowing will be clear after a few more of his fights. Phone Post 3.0
4/27/13 3:13 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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Had Rashad gone out there with a purely wrestling-focused mindset, I believe he would've won. If Bader and Davis can hold Nog down, Rashad shouldn't have had a problem as he's a better MMA wrestler than either of those guys.

4/27/13 3:22 PM
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Haulport
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Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching different fights from the majority of the UG...

Jon has faced and COMPLETELY OBLITERATED without ever being in the slightest bit of danger some of the best LHWs of ALL TIME and a slew of other great LHWs.

This cream of the crop are not even COMPETITIVE against this kid and he is only 25 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!

Anderson Silva is one of the all time greats but his level of competition is LAUGHABLE compared to Jon:

JON JONES
(past four years)
Shogun
Machida
Rashad
Bader
Vitor
Rampage
Vladdy
Hammill
Vera
Bonnar


ANDERSON SILVA
(past four years)
Chael 2x's
Cote
Leites
Forrest
Bonnar
Okami
Belfort
Maia

You cannot, with a straight face, even ATTEMPT to compare those two lists.
4/27/13 3:25 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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Haulport - Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching different fights from the majority of the UG...

Jon has faced and COMPLETELY OBLITERATED without ever being in the slightest bit of danger some of the best LHWs of ALL TIME and a slew of other great LHWs.

This cream of the crop are not even COMPETITIVE against this kid and he is only 25 YEARS OLD!!!!!!!!!!!

Anderson Silva is one of the all time greats but his level of competition is LAUGHABLE compared to Jon:

JON JONES
(past four years)
Shogun
Machida
Rashad
Bader
Vitor
Rampage
Vladdy
Hammill
Vera
Bonnar


ANDERSON SILVA
(past four years)
Chael 2x's
Cote
Leites
Forrest
Bonnar
Okami
Belfort
Maia

You cannot, with a straight face, even ATTEMPT to compare those two lists.

Agreed 100%. Jon is the new breed - he's an elite athlete as well as an extremely skilled fighter. He can do everything.

I'd be very surprised if he's not considered the GOAT when he retires.

4/27/13 3:33 PM
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Whambo
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Sonnen exposed a pretty big hole in Anderson's game, one that Jones doesn't have. But other than wrestling, Anderson is better at all aspects of MMA. It's hard to say who would win.
4/27/13 4:07 PM
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Evzey
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Lazer MMA -
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh - 
UGSlapshot -  He should be compared to boxers because their boxers not MMA fighters.

I was under the impression boxing has a lot more competitors and therefore stiffer competition than mma had or has.

Either way it's like comparing the greatest football team to the greatest rugby team, it really doesn't work. Phone Post

Agreed. Boxing still has much more talent than MMA does, and that's not an indictment against MMA - boxing is just a much older and more established sport.



Would love a poll on that. I don't follow boxing any more. The talent in MMA now is sick iMO
Interesting topic. Hard to be neutral on an MMA forum but for every Silva, Bones, GSP there is a Mayweather, Pacman, Ward, Klitchko etc

Overall I think globally boxing is still at a higher level but MMA is such a young sport Phone Post

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