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UnderGround Forums >> Ken Shamrock: "UFC is taking advantage of fighters


4/24/13 6:36 PM
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GeneraI
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Othello - So a persistent undercard fighter in the UFC has 10 fights and he can retire for life? Seriously Shamrock?? I wonder how many NFL players making the league minimum can play a couple seasons then retire for life? Or MLB,NHL..... any professional sport for that matter.

IDK why people insist on making blanket statements when it comes to UFC pay and the people it effects.
. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 6:45 PM
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GeneraI
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willienugget -
Othello - 
willienugget - 
Othello - So a persistent undercard fighter in the UFC has 10 fights and he can retire for life? Seriously Shamrock?? I wonder how many NFL players making the league minimum can play a couple seasons then retire for life? Or MLB,NHL..... any professional sport for that matter.

IDK why people insist on making blanket statements when it comes to UFC pay and the people it effects.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that all of them could.

Well be prepared for a very hard fall.

If you gave me 1.5 mil and said I would never receive another paycheck again, I'd make it work.
Obviously you don't follow football, the league min is not even close to 1.5 million. Nothing is funnier then people who post but never check the facts. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 6:51 PM
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Bentleysuper8
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NomoRomophobia - Shocked! Phone Post 3.0

ShamShock
4/24/13 6:51 PM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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Look at any other business, look at their operating model.

Employees are paid in accordance to what the business is willing to pay. They don't get an equal share of the profits, they don't dictate what they are paid.

Why are fighters any different? Sign the contract or don't. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 6:55 PM
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CindyO
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mose - given his well-documented history, i am not surprised that shamrock doesn't understand how capitalism works.

He's gonna understand how bankrupcy court works if he doesn't stop the shit talking. He owes them 6 figures in atty fees. Folks could say this documented roider, accused fight-thrower, and worlds most easiest cut man is taking advantage of the fans when he steps inside the cage/ring:)

 

Cindy

4/24/13 7:00 PM
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CindyO
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Nucky - 

A Private company who cornered the market and gained a full on monopoly by buying out the competition is taking advantage of their employees? SAY IT AINT SO!!!!.


Didn't the government investigate Zuffa for having a supposed monoopoly? What were the results?

 

Cindy

4/24/13 7:01 PM
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HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe
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sirjoshua - "They are putting 100k paintings on the wall instead of putting 100k in their fighters pocket"
I respect the hell out of Dana and zuffa, but that quote is undeniable, in my opinion. Phone Post
4/24/13 7:10 PM
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DanEzra
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How fast would the UFC go bankrupt if Shamrock was in charge of it?

4/24/13 7:14 PM
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the venerable dr wu
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This is why Bellator and smaller orgs are important and should be supported. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 7:16 PM
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Kevin Arnold
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CindyO - 
mose - given his well-documented history, i am not surprised that shamrock doesn't understand how capitalism works.

He's gonna understand how bankrupcy court works if he doesn't stop the shit talking. He owes them 6 figures in atty fees. Folks could say this documented roider, accused fight-thrower, and worlds most easiest cut man is taking advantage of the fans when he steps inside the cage/ring:)

 

Cindy


Pure propaganda from a Zuffa schil, what a shocker.
4/24/13 7:17 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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the venerable dr wu - This is why Bellator and smaller orgs are important and should be supported. Phone Post 3.0

In theory, I agree that competition is good.

However, Bellator can just as easily be accused of taking advantage of fighters as the UFC. Just ask Eddie Alvarez or Jonathan Brookins.
4/24/13 7:18 PM
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michelleNrogersdumpsterbaby
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the venerable dr wu - This is why Bellator and smaller orgs are important and should be supported. Phone Post 3.0

Are Bellator's pay outs ever posted like the UFC does? Just curious if anyone has a idea about how much fighters are making per fight there? Not the guys winning the 100k, but jus the regular joe schmo fighting on there undercard
4/24/13 7:23 PM
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PrestigeWorldwide
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Kevin Arnold -
CindyO - 
mose - given his well-documented history, i am not surprised that shamrock doesn't understand how capitalism works.

He's gonna understand how bankrupcy court works if he doesn't stop the shit talking. He owes them 6 figures in atty fees. Folks could say this documented roider, accused fight-thrower, and worlds most easiest cut man is taking advantage of the fans when he steps inside the cage/ring:)

 

Cindy


Pure propaganda from a Zuffa schil, what a shocker.
She's friends with Dana, what do u expect?!?

Plus she does have a point. ZUFFA has done a lot for this guy and they don't go out of their way to bash him. Ken really needs to move on with his life. He could be doing other things and exerting his energy elsewhere instead of being so bitter and out to get the UFC. Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 7:32 PM
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Kevin Arnold
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PrestigeWorldwide - 
Kevin Arnold -
CindyO - 
mose - given his well-documented history, i am not surprised that shamrock doesn't understand how capitalism works.

He's gonna understand how bankrupcy court works if he doesn't stop the shit talking. He owes them 6 figures in atty fees. Folks could say this documented roider, accused fight-thrower, and worlds most easiest cut man is taking advantage of the fans when he steps inside the cage/ring:)

 

Cindy


Pure propaganda from a Zuffa schil, what a shocker.
She's friends with Dana, what do u expect?!?

Plus she does have a point. ZUFFA has done a lot for this guy and they don't go out of their way to bash him. Ken really needs to move on with his life. He could be doing other things and exerting his energy elsewhere instead of being so bitter and out to get the UFC. Phone Post 3.0

First off, love the name.

Second, your first point proved my point for me, I'd expect nothing less than a Zuffa schil to slam Shamrock.

Third, Shamrock is a UFC hall of famer who helped Zuffa when they were on the verge of folding up shop with the UFC when he came back to fight Tito. Shamrock is no saint by any stretch of the imagination but Dana White and the UFC have plenty of blood on their hands when it comes to the Shamrock fued and as evidenced by fueds with Tito, Randy, etc, Dana acts like a petulant child when he can't control people.

As per usual truth typically lies somehwere "in between" but I can't stand how some just chug down the Dana White Zuffa kool-aid. Anyone who doesn't think that a lot of the stuff they do is shady is naive and/or a schil.
4/24/13 7:33 PM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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willienugget -
Outlaw'd by Lytle - Look at any other business, look at their operating model.

Employees are paid in accordance to what the business is willing to pay. They don't get an equal share of the profits, they don't dictate what they are paid.

Why are fighters any different? Sign the contract or don't. Phone Post 3.0

The NFL is a business and the players pretty well dictated what they get paid. They're united though.

It's not farfetched to envision a cap on how much GSP can earn for a fight and to see part of his potential earnings going instead to his opponent so he can properly train for the fight.
Was GSP afforded that privilege when he wasn't champ? Or did he earn it the hard way, based on victories and performing? Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 7:38 PM
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inf0
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4/24/13 7:40 PM
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awesomestprime
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Ken is some body who believes he deserves the overinflated status given to him because of his fame.

Fighters should fight for a few years and retire? Really? Why not the guy who does exterminating or HVAC who's ruined his knees? Why not the guy who's roofed for years and destroyed his entire body? The contractors and business owners they work for also make loads of money.

People today think way to highly of famous people and especially entertainers. Ken thinks way to highly of himself. I've always found it absurd the way athletes and entertainers are looked at like they DESERVE to be millionaires. I believe it's just another thing the fans want to live vicariously through their favorite pop star, actor, or athlete.

Employees DESERVE fair market value. They are worth what someone is willing to pay them, not a penny more. Just like the rest of the world.

They are not special. They do not need special treatment. And they sure as hell don't all DESERVE to retire by 30 years old. If they can? Good for them. They've done well for themselves and have EARNED it.

4/24/13 7:43 PM
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the geek
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GeneraI - 
willienugget -
Othello - 
willienugget - 
Othello - So a persistent undercard fighter in the UFC has 10 fights and he can retire for life? Seriously Shamrock?? I wonder how many NFL players making the league minimum can play a couple seasons then retire for life? Or MLB,NHL..... any professional sport for that matter.

IDK why people insist on making blanket statements when it comes to UFC pay and the people it effects.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that all of them could.

Well be prepared for a very hard fall.

If you gave me 1.5 mil and said I would never receive another paycheck again, I'd make it work.
Obviously you don't follow football, the league min is not even close to 1.5 million. Nothing is funnier then people who post but never check the facts. Phone Post 3.0

I recommend that people commenting on how much they think athletes make and how they live watch the 30 for 30 doc Broke. Great insight into the spending habits of professional athletes.

Sure I'd love to see every fighter makes bucket loads of money but the reality is that very few know how to manage it. Ken for instance has probably made millions (I'm just guessing but am probably right) but probably lived a life that would only sustain if he continued to earn a static amount until he's 60.

I applaud him for looking out for others but I suspect he's more focused on badmouthing the UFC than he is on looking out for others.

As I always state, I'm just some nerdy dude on a couch, this is just my opinion. But right or wrong watch the damn documentary, it's fantastic.
4/24/13 7:51 PM
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Othello - So a persistent undercard fighter in the UFC has 10 fights and he can retire for life? Seriously Shamrock?? I wonder how many NFL players making the league minimum can play a couple seasons then retire for life? Or MLB,NHL..... any professional sport for that matter.

IDK why people insist on making blanket statements when it comes to UFC pay and the people it effects.

the nfl min is around 400,000 and guys dont need to raise money for training camp.

the ufc had a girl on the main card and she is asking for donation for training camp.the ufc's income is more them most nfl teams

4/24/13 7:55 PM
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awesomestprime
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Othello - So a persistent undercard fighter in the UFC has 10 fights and he can retire for life? Seriously Shamrock?? I wonder how many NFL players making the league minimum can play a couple seasons then retire for life? Or MLB,NHL..... any professional sport for that matter.

IDK why people insist on making blanket statements when it comes to UFC pay and the people it effects.

the nfl min is around 400,000 and guys dont need to raise money for training camp.

the ufc had a girl on the main card and she is asking for donation for training camp.the ufc's income is more them most nfl teams


Comparing the NFL with the UFC is crazy talk.


4/24/13 8:03 PM
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Kevin Arnold
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NFL players making the league minimum get 400K for a year. They don't have to pay money to train for their sports and they also get put on injured reserve and are paid for 100% of their medical expenses and their salary as players are not allowed to be released when they are injured per the NFL collective bargaining agreement.

What does a low level UFC fighter make, 800k to show and 16k if they win? So lets say a guy fights 4 times in a year and wins 3 fights. That is 56K. After monthly gym fees they are probably down to about 50K a year. That is if they are lucky enough to be healthy, get 4 fights in a year, and win 3 out of 4.

Obviously the NFL makes way more than the UFC. However, the NFL doesnt pay it's players, indiviudal teams do. The UFC must make as much as some NFL teams. An NFL teamonly have 50+ players on their roster to pay and the UFC has a lot more than that, but still, we are talking about the difference between 40-50K and 400K which is huge.

Facts are facts, and the fact remains that the UFC has never nor does to this day poay their fighters as a hole fairly and Ken Shamrock is one of about 10 or more high profile fighters who have publicly said this and as I said earlier when Dana can't control people he acts like a petulant child and goes out of his way to trash them.
4/24/13 8:07 PM
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awesomestprime
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You guys comparing the UFC to the NFL sound retarded. Apples and Oranges.

If you want to compare it to any business compare it to the WWE. They are the closest in relation to business models.

The NFL is on a whole other level from the UFC.
4/24/13 8:15 PM
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tommypatron
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Othello - So a persistent undercard fighter in the UFC has 10 fights and he can retire for life? Seriously Shamrock?? I wonder how many NFL players making the league minimum can play a couple seasons then retire for life? Or MLB,NHL..... any professional sport for that matter.

IDK why people insist on making blanket statements when it comes to UFC pay and the people it effects.
Isn't the league minimum still like six figures? Phone Post 3.0
4/24/13 8:15 PM
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JerodR
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The bigger the draw, the better the performance, the more money you make. It isn't that hard to understand. Even if you are an undercard guy but put on a great performance the UFC gives pretty good bonus's for doing so.

I love how people expect the PPV cost to go down, if not free. They expect the UFC to hire and keep just about every fighter under the sun because god forbid nobody gets let go. Then people expect full medical, retirement, and huge minimum pay for these fighters. At the same time they all want to see the top guys make Mayweather money as well. All while being the one that promotes the events, rents the venues, provides all the travel, expands into new markets, etc, etc, etc.... Finally what do the people that own the UFC get for all of this risk and overhead...next to nothing because people also expect people like Dana, Lorenzo, and company to make little money as well because it should all go to the fighters.

Sorry people, but the numbers don't add up. If you think it does then you should never, ever own a business. Of course if you think you can do better that is an option... It has worked out well for so many others.
4/24/13 8:19 PM
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time traveling 12er
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Vale_Tudo_83 -  The reason mma fighters make so littel compared to boxing is the ufc wants to keep them hungry.

Dana talks about it in that stanford business interview.

He said basicly if guy get to rich they lose the drive and do the bare minimum to win. Since the have a big payday in there pocket. Phone Post

You missed the point of that comment.  he's not saying he's underpaying them to keep them hungry.  He's saying he makes a large chunk of the money performance based to keep them hungry.  He's saying in Boxing guys get tentative and lazy because they fight money is already in the bank for them.  The whole part of that conversation was about performance based pay vs just paying a flat rate.


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