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UnderGround Forums >> Gil Melendez: We need judges who train


4/25/13 7:58 AM
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Internettufguy
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mendelson -
DoomFarmer - It was a close fight but I can't understand how so many people thought Gil won.

Rounds 2,3,4 went to Ben pretty clearly when I watched it every time.

Seems we can't have a fight LW that doesn't get contested on the forum for months since Edgar/Henderson 1.
Because he DID win. He won 3 out of 5 rounds. Phone Post 3.0
If he won wouldn't he be the champ now? Maybe I am missing something, but I don't think Frankie or Gil has the belt. Pretty sure that means he DIDN'T win. Phone Post 3.0
4/25/13 8:25 AM
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CoreNobody
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vaginal tear - Thats code for "We need more judges who are Ceaser Gracie affiliates" Phone Post 3.0
Bingo! Phone Post 3.0
4/25/13 8:35 AM
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FreakDaddy
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I agree that we need better judges, but that fight could have still been a split with good judges......It was very close....Hopefully, more retired fighters will start to judge more fights.......
4/25/13 8:45 AM
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Humphrey
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Edited: 04/25/13 8:45 AM
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the fight was close, i thought gil lost, but not badly. i think it would have been a bad decision had it gone the other way, and frankly, if Ben had lost to the cards, THEN this came out, I'd say he had a valid case for a ruling change. (had ben had someone judging that had a connection with him)

it's a severe conflict of interest and should raise eyebrows. Christ had it been the other way and one of the judges that called it for ben would have had a conflict of interest his favor, you can be the dispute would already be filed, the forum would be full of people crying and raising hell
4/25/13 8:45 AM
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Ansari
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Gil Melendez: We need judges who train with Cesar Gracie

4/25/13 9:08 AM
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danggook
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Cecil people's is a mutual fukkin king fu master Phone Post
4/25/13 9:41 AM
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Smith1234
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Oontyex -
CRMartin11 - The main thing that needs to be addressed in judging in my opinion is the issue about strikes. Are all strikes considered equal? By some of the judging I think a lot of the judges view all strikes the same, regardless of damage, location etc.

If you think all strikes are equal then you scored the fight for Benson. If you think all strikes are not equal then you scored this fight for Gil. At least in my eyes that is how I see it. I'm interested to see what others have to say.

Btw I personally think all strikes are not the same. Anyone who thinks that way is ignorant to the sport. I had scored this fight rounds 1,2,3 and 5 for Gil. I still haven't re watched it, so my opinion may change, but I think Gil unquestionably won that fight. I think anyone who has ever trained will know what I'm talking about; If a strike lands cleanly or not it makes a big difference, how much force is behind the strike and most importantly how much damage did the strike cause. These are all crucial factors that determine the significance of a strike. To the untrained eye I think these subtleties could be easily missed, but this is an essential part of MMA.
Agree 100% bendo fought well more jab and distanced gauging strike but Gil landed the more damaging and significant strikes and also brought the intensity.
I had 1,2,3,5 Gil too.
Same thoughts on judges in terms of takedowns - a slam vs a scramble are totally different, then also in terms of what is done with the change in position, if a fighter is not able to accomplish anything meaningful (damage/ threats or even control) these situations should not be rewarded the way they are.

In this fight I felt Gil threatened bendo but bendo at no point (other than elbows after the bell) threatened Gil Phone Post 3.0
How do you guys count the flush and powerful and unblocked leg kicks? They were the most powerful strikes in the fight by far IMO. Phone Post 3.0
4/25/13 10:03 AM
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Jacked01
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Leg kicks are damaging when the start to add up. A fighter with well seasoned legs can eat a lot of leg shots with out it really being a issue. In muay thai they dont score damage and dont give much credit to leg kick unless the start to cause an a limp. I would way rather get kicked in the leg then kicked to the body.
I agree with scoring on damage rather then point fighting.
4/25/13 10:12 AM
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goocher
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I was so hammered by the time this fight happened I barley remember. Fights last like 7 hours if you watch all the them.
4/25/13 10:16 AM
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Internettufguy
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Jacked01 - Leg kicks are damaging when the start to add up. A fighter with well seasoned legs can eat a lot of leg shots with out it really being a issue. In muay thai they dont score damage and dont give much credit to leg kick unless the start to cause an a limp. I would way rather get kicked in the leg then kicked to the body.
I agree with scoring on damage rather then point fighting.
Chris Leben takes punches like some take leg kicks. Does that mean landed punches on him shouldn't be considered significant? Phone Post 3.0
4/25/13 1:16 PM
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knuckleballs
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None of this changes the fact that Gil did not win 3 rounds of that fight.
4/25/13 1:16 PM
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knuckleballs
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None of this changes the fact that Gil did not win 3 rounds of that fight.
4/25/13 1:29 PM
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JStrongMMA
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I don't understand this. Gil said he never met the guy and doesn't know who he is. Cesar is Gils BJJ coach but he does run his own school. There are a bunch of Cesar Gracie affiliates all over the country just like there is a bunch of Renzo Gracie schools and ATT schools. These sort of things can happen since MMA is such a small community. If they want quality judges that train or have competed then they will have ties to someone. It didn't look like biased judging at all. I gave it to Gil 1,2,5 and 3 was close. Phone Post
4/25/13 1:53 PM
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Internettufguy
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JStrongMMA - I don't understand this. Gil said he never met the guy and doesn't know who he is. Cesar is Gils BJJ coach but he does run his own school. There are a bunch of Cesar Gracie affiliates all over the country just like there is a bunch of Renzo Gracie schools and ATT schools. These sort of things can happen since MMA is such a small community. If they want quality judges that train or have competed then they will have ties to someone. It didn't look like biased judging at all. I gave it to Gil 1,2,5 and 3 was close. Phone Post
Serious question for you since you are a fighter. If you we're in a five round fight and you out struck your opponent in literally every round, with no real damage to either fighter, and grappling and control were basically a wash, would you think it was a poor decision if you lost the fight? Phone Post 3.0
4/25/13 1:55 PM
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DoomFarmer
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mendelson -
DoomFarmer - It was a close fight but I can't understand how so many people thought Gil won.

Rounds 2,3,4 went to Ben pretty clearly when I watched it every time.

Seems we can't have a fight LW that doesn't get contested on the forum for months since Edgar/Henderson 1.
Because he DID win. He won 3 out of 5 rounds. Phone Post 3.0
It would appear you are mistaken. Phone Post 3.0
4/25/13 2:24 PM
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mygodthisMMA
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Can you make a living judging MMA? I think as a MMA fan since the 90s it would be a noble thing to do. Looking for a new path and I'm not a fighter but want to be involved in the sport.

Kurile, tell me what I've got to do to do this. Phone Post
4/25/13 2:50 PM
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JStrongMMA
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Internettufguy -
JStrongMMA - I don't understand this. Gil said he never met the guy and doesn't know who he is. Cesar is Gils BJJ coach but he does run his own school. There are a bunch of Cesar Gracie affiliates all over the country just like there is a bunch of Renzo Gracie schools and ATT schools. These sort of things can happen since MMA is such a small community. If they want quality judges that train or have competed then they will have ties to someone. It didn't look like biased judging at all. I gave it to Gil 1,2,5 and 3 was close. Phone Post
Serious question for you since you are a fighter. If you we're in a five round fight and you out struck your opponent in literally every round, with no real damage to either fighter, and grappling and control were basically a wash, would you think it was a poor decision if you lost the fight? Phone Post 3.0
I completely understand the argument and I do think the fight could have gone either way. The issue I have is with how the rounds are scored. Octagon control is supposed to be a big part of how rounds are scored and I feel like Gil pressed forward and had octagon control for nearly the entire fight. I was actually suprised to see how much Ben outstruck Gil because it seemed a lot closer when I watched it. Idk..I would like to see a rematch to see a more definitive outcome. These close decisions are frustrating to watch. Phone Post
4/25/13 2:53 PM
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JStrongMMA
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove -
JStrongMMA -  I don't understand this. Gil said he never met the guy and doesn't know who he is. Cesar is Gils BJJ coach but he does run his own school. There are a bunch of Cesar Gracie affiliates all over the country just like there is a bunch of Renzo Gracie schools and ATT schools. These sort of things can happen since MMA is such a small community. If they want quality judges that train or have competed then they will have ties to someone. It didn't look like biased judging at all. I gave it to Gil 1,2,5 and 3 was close. Phone Post

Well this guy that apparently Gil has never met has videos of him up on his website.  Would you want to fight against someone affiliated with the guy judging the fight?

As I've stated before, there are more than 3 judges for each UFC card.  This Vierra guy did not judge Nate Diaz's fight on the same night, meaning there was at least one other judge who took this fight off.  Would have been very easy to juggle assignments for the night so this conflict of interest did not occur.

That's a fair point. If there was another judge on hand then it would have been wise to let him/her judge that fight if the CSAC was aware of the conflict of interest. Phone Post
4/25/13 3:07 PM
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JStrongMMA
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RampageFitsLikeAGlove -
JStrongMMA - 
RampageFitsLikeAGlove -
JStrongMMA -  I don't understand this. Gil said he never met the guy and doesn't know who he is. Cesar is Gils BJJ coach but he does run his own school. There are a bunch of Cesar Gracie affiliates all over the country just like there is a bunch of Renzo Gracie schools and ATT schools. These sort of things can happen since MMA is such a small community. If they want quality judges that train or have competed then they will have ties to someone. It didn't look like biased judging at all. I gave it to Gil 1,2,5 and 3 was close. Phone Post

Well this guy that apparently Gil has never met has videos of him up on his website.  Would you want to fight against someone affiliated with the guy judging the fight?

As I've stated before, there are more than 3 judges for each UFC card.  This Vierra guy did not judge Nate Diaz's fight on the same night, meaning there was at least one other judge who took this fight off.  Would have been very easy to juggle assignments for the night so this conflict of interest did not occur.

That's a fair point. If there was another judge on hand then it would have been wise to let him/her judge that fight if the CSAC was aware of the conflict of interest. Phone Post

Not only is the CSAC responsible, but I'd think Vierra should be responsible and recuse himself from the bout.  Even if he was completely unbiased, if would look bad on Gil if he would have won the split decision and this would have come out.

Yea, that's true. If Gil would have won and word got out that one of the judges was a CS affiliate, the UG would have been up in arms at what a travesty the decision was. There should be some accountability on the AC if this happens again. I was just pointing out that I had no problem with him giving the nod to Gil. He did score the rounds very oddly though. Phone Post
4/25/13 3:13 PM
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Immaculata
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JStrongMMA -  I don't understand this. Gil said he never met the guy and doesn't know who he is. Cesar is Gils BJJ coach but he does run his own school. There are a bunch of Cesar Gracie affiliates all over the country just like there is a bunch of Renzo Gracie schools and ATT schools. These sort of things can happen since MMA is such a small community. If they want quality judges that train or have competed then they will have ties to someone. It didn't look like biased judging at all. I gave it to Gil 1,2,5 and 3 was close. Phone Post

The conflict of interest comes into play because Mr. Vierra OWNS a School under Caesar. When a Caesar Gracie fighter wins it helps business. A Judge can't benifit Financially from a fighter winning. I'm not saying that there's a conspiracy here, or that the Judge had a biased score, but he should have recused himself for that reason solely. It's great that there are Judges like him that train, and I had Melendez winning 48-47 rnds 1, 2 & 5 (with 5 being the closest), but there is a conflict of interest there.

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