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UnderGround Forums >> Focus of Women's MMA is Sex Appeal


5/5/13 12:47 PM
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Rickmassmma
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WTF PICS
5/5/13 12:53 PM
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dangerboy12
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The answer, IMO, is no. Looks will not be enough, unless they don't care about competitive legitimacy.

In a few years, there will be some manly looking wrestling lady who comes in and beats everyone and the division will die.

As OP said, the skill level is still super low speaking defensively, but that won't be the case forever. Women will learn not to allow themselves to get smashed in the face. They will learn position over submission. They will learn how to fight like a technician rather than a wild person.

Take away the wild fights, the division falls apart. If unattractive women start dominating, the division falls apart.

However, there is a VERY strong chance legitimacy in WMMA is not very important to the UFC, and the roster will be manipulated to avoid such scenarios.
5/5/13 1:16 PM
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bradu
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Rickmassmma - WTF PICS

can't believe it took 2 pages for someone to say this

5/5/13 2:13 PM
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Barbalos
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I agree with the comparison to old Royce. And that's part of the problem I have with women's MMA. The top women's skills are comparable to 20 years ago, and there is just too much higher skill level MMA to watch now for me to really get excited about that. The focus on sex sells type stuff, while not surprising as stated by many here, takes away a lot from the legitimacy of finding and producing the best female fighters. My 2 cents.
5/5/13 3:21 PM
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Jons Forsberg
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku - Same applies to men. There is a reason why GSP is a much bigger draw than Anderson and its not because he's better or more exciting. Phone Post 3.0

the reason is GSP is Canadian.

Looks are far more important in WMMA since the majority of PPV buyers are men.
5/5/13 3:33 PM
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GarlicSauce
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rbl - 
GarlicSauce - In America, that's always been a woman's role: a piece of meat.
America, unlike other countries?

And all fighters are pieces of meat to most fans. They're not paying to see bravery and technique, they want blood. Phone Post 3.0

Europe also has that. But America is especially effective in forcing/influencing the idea that women are simpy pieces of meat.
5/5/13 3:42 PM
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UGSlapshot
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56sav - It's not a question of whether attractive people are more marketable, it's whether that is enough to make up for the other obvious shortcomings.
They don't have any obvious shortcomings, you're grasping at straws.

All your arguments have already been made and proven false. Phone Post
5/5/13 6:29 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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I only hope the next top WMMA prospect looks like Roy Nelson sans facial hair if only to see Dana White bristle at having to promote her as the best in the world.

There is a reason the women's division is one weight only.

That's to keep Cris Cyborg at bay and keep it so they can promote Ronda, Tate, Coenen types.

They will go lighter in weight before adding heavier classes to keep more feminine looking (read sexually appealing) women in the UFC and keep the sea donkeys and masculine types away.

Liz Carmouche isn't what the UFC wanted in terms of marketability.

She was just an opponent that Rousey could beat and look better than.

The UFC wanted Tate to be coaching TUF versus Ronda but got Cat instead.

The goal was pretty Ronda versus pretty Cupcake Tate and they'd have sold a blood feud between two women that MMA male fans adore.

Cat is a solid fighter but only a fool thinks they want to push her promotionally just like only a moron thought they'd be happy with a Liz Carmouche win.

With women, looks will always be more important than marketing men. Phone Post
5/5/13 7:43 PM
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56sav
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I figured this thread would bring some the PC shills out of the woodwork :-D But thanks to those who actually gave an answer.

Male's natural superior V02 max is well documented in science. There are countless studies but here is one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22621157

4x the strength is an average figure, but for verification one only needs to look at something like male vs. female weightlifting records. Men obviously have considerably more muscle mass per lb., lower body fat, and genetically have larger slow/fast twitch muscle fibers, etc.

And I forgot to mention women's fast movement are considerably slower than men. A 135lb WMMA fight is slower than an average heavyweight men's fight.

I don't think anybody can really argue the skill level. As people have already stated, as WMMA evolves (if it ever gets a chance to), fights will stop being slugfests and become more methodical, at which point the above attributes will become more obvious.

Lastly I have some doubts as well that WMMA will survive the mainstream in the longrun. It seems eerily similar to Elite XC building their entire org around Kimbo Slice, except in this case they have the men to fall back on so experimentation is possible. Only time will tell.
5/5/13 7:44 PM
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56sav
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Fattiecorpuscle - 
Swedgen -

Picture of OP:

 

Lol so accurate Phone Post

Says the guy with "fattie" in his name. LOL
5/5/13 7:51 PM
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OblongBox
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56sav - I figured this thread would bring some the PC shills out of the woodwork :-D But thanks to those who actually gave an answer.

Male's natural superior V02 max is well documented in science. There are countless studies but here is one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22621157

4x the strength is an average figure, but for verification one only needs to look at something like male vs. female weightlifting records. Men obviously have considerably more muscle mass per lb., lower body fat, and genetically have larger slow/fast twitch muscle fibers, etc.

And I forgot to mention women's fast movement are considerably slower than men. A 135lb WMMA fight is slower than an average heavyweight men's fight.

I don't think anybody can really argue the skill level. As people have already stated, as WMMA evolves (if it ever gets a chance to), fights will stop being slugfests and become more methodical, at which point the above attributes will become more obvious.

Lastly I have some doubts as well that WMMA will survive the mainstream in the longrun. It seems eerily similar to Elite XC building their entire org around Kimbo Slice, except in this case they have the men to fall back on so experimentation is possible. Only time will tell.

Bro the average man is not 4x stronger than the average woman. If an average woman can lift a 50lb box off the ground and put it on a table can we expect the average man to be able to lift a 200 lb box just as easy? If an average woman can bench 85lbs can the average man bench 350lbs?
5/5/13 8:00 PM
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dangerboy12
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56sav - I figured this thread would bring some the PC shills out of the woodwork :-D But thanks to those who actually gave an answer.

Male's natural superior V02 max is well documented in science. There are countless studies but here is one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22621157

4x the strength is an average figure, but for verification one only needs to look at something like male vs. female weightlifting records. Men obviously have considerably more muscle mass per lb., lower body fat, and genetically have larger slow/fast twitch muscle fibers, etc.

And I forgot to mention women's fast movement are considerably slower than men. A 135lb WMMA fight is slower than an average heavyweight men's fight.

I don't think anybody can really argue the skill level. As people have already stated, as WMMA evolves (if it ever gets a chance to), fights will stop being slugfests and become more methodical, at which point the above attributes will become more obvious.

Lastly I have some doubts as well that WMMA will survive the mainstream in the longrun. It seems eerily similar to Elite XC building their entire org around Kimbo Slice, except in this case they have the men to fall back on so experimentation is possible. Only time will tell.

well, the thing you have to consider is UFC has a lot of control over who gets to fight, and who gets promoted, who gets title shots, etc.

They can make sure the division stays attractive and entertaining for a good while. I say at least 3 or 4 years. Eventually though, someone will slip through the cracks. Like a Martina Navratilova, Diana Taurasi, Lucia Rijker, etc.
5/5/13 8:04 PM
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Public got Bigg Riggd
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SnapLocally - "Yes, attractive people are more marketable.

This goes for the men as well."

Roy Nelson is plenty marketable. Find him attractive?
Unzips Phone Post 3.0
5/5/13 8:06 PM
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dangerboy12
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Ten eight round -  It needs to be sold on sex, like everything else to do with women.

Do you follow WNBA? No, because they're ugly dykes.

Female tennis however, has fine bitches so people know that those players and the sport exist.

Female MMA, golf, tennis, basketball, etc. need sex appeal to advance because if it wasn't for looks, people would just watch the male equivalent because the skill level is way higher. Phone Post

And OP never said he thought selling it on sex was wrong, he just wanted to know how long it will last.

MMA is a contact sport. It's not like tennis, gymnastics, skating, volleyball, golf etc. In those sports, speed, ageility and dexterity are most important, and they really don't effect a woman's attractiveness.

MMA requires muscular strength and toughness, and getting punched in the face, which do effect attractiveness. It's just a matter of time before a smaller version of Cyborg comes in and cleans house. The question is, how long will UFC be able to keep the next Cyborg out of the UFC?
5/5/13 8:06 PM
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dangerboy12
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agility*
5/5/13 8:10 PM
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MisterFixit
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Like life, if you dont have looks you better make up for it with personality ....or skill.
5/5/13 8:53 PM
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BullyKiller
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And? Phone Post 3.0
5/5/13 8:56 PM
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12SixElbow
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Its 110 percent sex appeal, a few hardcore fans love it for true sport, but come on.

 

When Gina Carano was on top, she was blowing up. She was fighting NO ONE, they even brought girls out of retirement for her to fight, and she was HUGE. If a UFC male champ was fighting opponents like that people would be calling for Dana's head.

Cyborg becomes champ, popular, but not huge...

Ronda comes around, FUCKING HUGE again. Tons of mainstream press, etc.....

 

5/5/13 9:05 PM
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12SixElbow
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dangerboy12 - The answer, IMO, is no. Looks will not be enough, unless they don't care about competitive legitimacy.

In a few years, there will be some manly looking wrestling lady who comes in and beats everyone and the division will die.

As OP said, the skill level is still super low speaking defensively, but that won't be the case forever. Women will learn not to allow themselves to get smashed in the face. They will learn position over submission. They will learn how to fight like a technician rather than a wild person.

Take away the wild fights, the division falls apart. If unattractive women start dominating, the division falls apart.

However, there is a VERY strong chance legitimacy in WMMA is not very important to the UFC, and the roster will be manipulated to avoid such scenarios.

But looks HAVE been enough....

Gina Carano fought Kedzie coming off a loss, Evinger coming off a loss, Young coming off  a loss, and Kobold coming off 2 losses and a layoff.

and she was HUUUUUGE.

People were blowing her up, while calling Fedor a POS for fighting Hunt and Lindland.

 

 

5/5/13 9:17 PM
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dangerboy12
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12SixElbow - 
dangerboy12 - The answer, IMO, is no. Looks will not be enough, unless they don't care about competitive legitimacy.

In a few years, there will be some manly looking wrestling lady who comes in and beats everyone and the division will die.

As OP said, the skill level is still super low speaking defensively, but that won't be the case forever. Women will learn not to allow themselves to get smashed in the face. They will learn position over submission. They will learn how to fight like a technician rather than a wild person.

Take away the wild fights, the division falls apart. If unattractive women start dominating, the division falls apart.

However, there is a VERY strong chance legitimacy in WMMA is not very important to the UFC, and the roster will be manipulated to avoid such scenarios.

But looks HAVE been enough....

Gina Carano fought Kedzie coming off a loss, Evinger coming off a loss, Young coming off  a loss, and Kobold coming off 2 losses and a layoff.

and she was HUUUUUGE.

People were blowing her up, while calling Fedor a POS for fighting Hunt and Lindland.

 

 


Yeah but that was one fighter. One fighter does not make a division.

Ask women's boxing how things are going since Laila Ali hung em up.
5/5/13 9:31 PM
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Jons Forsberg
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" One fighter does not make a division."

actually, it does.

The sport has revolved around 1 an attractive fighter from day 1, Gina then and Rhonda nowadays.
5/5/13 9:39 PM
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dangerboy12
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I dunno, I'm not sure if many of the other women are reaping the benefits. A successful division will require more than a poster girl.

I will say, things are looking pretty good short term, and the UFC has smart people in charge that can bring in the right fighters that can keep the division going, and keep out the fighters that can bring the division to a screeching halt.

The one downfall could be a dominant woman that the hardcore get behind. Much like a Lucia Rijker who pretty much buried women's boxing.
5/5/13 10:02 PM
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56sav
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Sounds like most people agree that the future of WMMA is questionable. I guess it comes down to personal preference whether you want to spend your hard earned cash to watch 2 hot chicks beat the crap out of each other or not, at least at this point in time.

I guess for some that may be appealing, but it seems like more dilution of an already stagnating MMA scene (in the world of Zuffa at least).

If they absolutely have to stay, keep the women on the undercard and put them on the free TV portion. Use them to draw in viewers for the PPV. There are simply too many other intriguing fights that actually have meaning, which are better long-term company investments anyway. My 2 cents.

5/5/13 10:09 PM
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ptper
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I'm not comfortable watching women beat the shit out of each other regardless of their appearance.
5/5/13 10:19 PM
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AndersonSilvasMoney
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Even if what you say about the level of athleticism and physical capacity is true, to reduce the current boom in WMMA popularity to strictly physical characteristics is sort of an obtuse way to look at it.

If you watch WMMA fights, they almost always go after it from bell to bell. There seems to be less tentativeness and more interest in going for it. Fans like that, especially after seeing fights like Johnson-Schaub, Cormier-Mir, Machida-Hendo - all big name stars who severely disappointed with generally boring matches (all LHW/HWs, too).

Yeah, maybe we're not seeing Maia-level grappling or Silva-level striking in WMMA; but women for the most part tend to leave it all in the ring. People like that, and understandably so.


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