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HolyGround >> Baptize in the name of Jesus only


6/4/13 1:37 PM
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RoninBT
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Saint Stevo - 
RoninBT - Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done,

If you want to build a house then start with the foundation. It is my opinion that the most trustworthy biblical concepts are rooted in the beginning that being said we tend to concentrate on second half of the book to support our positions.

One of the last verses before the NT begins implores us to:
Mal 4:4 "Remember the torah of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

In that spirit I would like to stir the pot with the following verses and a couple more for good measure:

Exo 3:15 And Elohiym said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHVH Elohiym of your fathers, the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac, and the Elohiym of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Num 23:19 "El is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

1Sa 15:29 "Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind."

Mal 3:6-7 For I am YHVH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed

I agree with you Robin. The old testament is the foundation.
I just like to jump to the chase but if you want me bring from old to the new. I have no problem with that.

Exodus 3:15 - are you referring that Elohim is a multiple person God?

Num. 23:19 - Are you saying that Jesus is not God in the flesh?

1Sam. 15:29 - same question

Mal. 2:6-7 - I have no idea where you're going with this one.

Exodus 3:15 - are you referring that Elohim is a multiple person God?
NO…. YHVH is His memorial name, His name forever to all generations.
Num. 23:19 - Are you saying that Jesus is not God in the flesh?
I am not saying anything. The text on the other hand is pretty clear.
1Sam. 15:29 - same question
Same as above.
Mal. 2:6-7 - I have no idea where you're going with this one.
My theology is simple and my points are too. HE DOES NOT CHANGE. Ex 3:15 is a pretty definitive statement and to claim the name Jesus, which isn’t even Messiah’s name, supersedes the memorial name of God is idolatry.
6/4/13 1:50 PM
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MoustacheRider69
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Phone Post
6/4/13 2:09 PM
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Saint Stevo
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Kung Fu Joe - 
Saint Stevo -
Kung Fu Joe -  I don't agree with the logic that several have put forward in this thread.

It makes no sense to assume primacy for the name "Jesus" over the name "YHWH."

First of all, the word "Jesus" is at least three steps of corruption removed from the word which was actually his name. "Jesus" is the Anglicization of "Iesus," which was the Latinization of "Iesous," which was the Hellenization of "Yeshua," which was Aramaic.

Furthermore, "Yeshua" is a word meaning "salvation of YHWH" or "YHWH saves." How can you argue that "Jesus" is the name of God, not "YHWH," when "Jesus" is itself a witness that "YHWH" is the name of God. Phone Post

That's fine if you don't agree with the bible. Your word will disappear but the bible is forever (Matt. 24:35).

Now, let's proceed. You've said that the name is YHWH correct?

YHWH says in Isaiah 45:23 He swore out his mouth every knee will bow to him and tongue will confess.

If you believe in Jesus and say it's YHWH only. Then your YHWH becomes a liar according to Phillipians 2:10 every knee will bow to Jesus.

YHWH also said there's no other savior
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

If you claim Jesus is a second person (god)saviour then YHWH became a liar in Isaiah 43:11.

So, now you have a dilemma. You either have to drop Jesus and drop the new testament or you can acknowledge Jesus is the supreme God.
I'll set aside the semantic debate about persons and gods, for the moment. I believe we both agree that the NT asserts that Jesus is God, and that the Bible asserts there is only one God.

The question is whether the name "Jesus" takes primacy over the name "YHWH." Several in this thread have asserted that it does. I disagree with that assertion.

The fact remains that "Jesus" was not even his earthly name. You're asserting that people should only be baptized in the name that Jesus, himself, never answered to during his earthly ministry.

So if that is appropriate, why not baptize in any other name ascribed to Jesus? Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Counsellor, Emmanuel, YHWH, Elohim, Yeshua, Joshua, et cetera, et cetera. Phone Post

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Scripture says it's his name. So I don't get what you mean it wasn't. Jesus gave the command to be baptized in the name and remission of sins preached in his name (Matt. 28:19, Luke 24:47)

I'm not against another translation of his name, yeshua, Ieosus,or whatever language is used.

However, it's what ever Peter commanded in Acts 2:38. Which is Jesus. That's why you don't see anybody baptized f,s, or HG in the bible.

Question, The Day of the Lord is Jehovah coming back. Who's the 1 that's coming back in Revelation 19?
6/20/13 4:02 AM
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sparkuri
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Saint Stevo - 
sparkuri - 
Saint Stevo - 
HELWIG - 

Wait, Moses parted the Red Sea by invoking the name Jesus?!

Im not at all arguing against Jesus' divinity or oneness with the Father.

Im saying that its a pretty outrageous departure to claim that the name of the Father is not "Yahweh" but "Jesus".

Thats Jesus is the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is not demonstrated by Jesus having the fullness of the Godhead within him.

Jesus was fully God. That doesnt mean he WAS the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Holy spirit. Read Acts 20:28. It states that Holy Ghost gave his blood for the church. We know that Spirit has no flesh and spirit cannot bleed. This only Means that Jesus is the Holy Ghost that gave his blood.

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood

 

  1. Acts 20:28 Many manuscripts of the Lord
  2. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his own Son
How do you get "Jesus is the Holy Spirit" out of this ?
 
Other than the GodHead being three distinct names/entities, yet being "one", I don't agree with the premise that one is the other. At this point, I believe this comes from teaching and interpretation.

When you read the scripture of Acts 20:28 KJV, Holy Spirit possess the word "he" in the verse.

Acts 20:28

NIV
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood

NASB
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

ISV
Pay attention to yourselves and to the entire flock over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to be shepherds of God's church, which he acquired with his own blood.

American KJV
Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he has purchased with his own blood.

Now let's read how Jesus explains that he is the Holy Ghost.

John 14:16-18
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Verse 17 Jesus points out that he's the 1 that dwells in them and will be in them. He speaks about the comforter in verse 16 and then he proceeds to say I will not leave you comfortless and I will come to you. The Son (flesh) prayed to the omnipresent spirit of God. The same person prayed and the same person will come back. Jesus.

You're claim of 3 gods/entities is false. There's only 1.

Hear O' MMA Holy Ground the Lord our God is ONE. Jesus.




For your consideration....

I'd like to hear what paralell's if any, you derive from this, in relation to your premise.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Abba-Father.html

 

6/20/13 12:52 PM
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Saint Stevo
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sparkuri - 
Saint Stevo - 
sparkuri - 
Saint Stevo - 
HELWIG - 

Wait, Moses parted the Red Sea by invoking the name Jesus?!

Im not at all arguing against Jesus' divinity or oneness with the Father.

Im saying that its a pretty outrageous departure to claim that the name of the Father is not "Yahweh" but "Jesus".

Thats Jesus is the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is not demonstrated by Jesus having the fullness of the Godhead within him.

Jesus was fully God. That doesnt mean he WAS the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Holy spirit. Read Acts 20:28. It states that Holy Ghost gave his blood for the church. We know that Spirit has no flesh and spirit cannot bleed. This only Means that Jesus is the Holy Ghost that gave his blood.

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood

 

  1. Acts 20:28 Many manuscripts of the Lord
  2. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his own Son
How do you get "Jesus is the Holy Spirit" out of this ?
 
Other than the GodHead being three distinct names/entities, yet being "one", I don't agree with the premise that one is the other. At this point, I believe this comes from teaching and interpretation.

When you read the scripture of Acts 20:28 KJV, Holy Spirit possess the word "he" in the verse.

Acts 20:28

NIV
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood

NASB
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

ISV
Pay attention to yourselves and to the entire flock over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to be shepherds of God's church, which he acquired with his own blood.

American KJV
Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he has purchased with his own blood.

Now let's read how Jesus explains that he is the Holy Ghost.

John 14:16-18
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Verse 17 Jesus points out that he's the 1 that dwells in them and will be in them. He speaks about the comforter in verse 16 and then he proceeds to say I will not leave you comfortless and I will come to you. The Son (flesh) prayed to the omnipresent spirit of God. The same person prayed and the same person will come back. Jesus.

You're claim of 3 gods/entities is false. There's only 1.

Hear O' MMA Holy Ground the Lord our God is ONE. Jesus.




For your consideration....

I'd like to hear what paralell's if any, you derive from this, in relation to your premise.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Abba-Father.html

 


The article pointed out God chooses people and you can call God Father. Are you trying to show Calvinism or is there something I'm missing?
6/20/13 4:53 PM
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sparkuri
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Saint Stevo -
sparkuri - 
Saint Stevo - 
sparkuri - 
Saint Stevo - 
HELWIG - 

Wait, Moses parted the Red Sea by invoking the name Jesus?!

Im not at all arguing against Jesus' divinity or oneness with the Father.

Im saying that its a pretty outrageous departure to claim that the name of the Father is not "Yahweh" but "Jesus".

Thats Jesus is the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is not demonstrated by Jesus having the fullness of the Godhead within him.

Jesus was fully God. That doesnt mean he WAS the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Holy spirit. Read Acts 20:28. It states that Holy Ghost gave his blood for the church. We know that Spirit has no flesh and spirit cannot bleed. This only Means that Jesus is the Holy Ghost that gave his blood.

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood

 

  1. Acts 20:28 Many manuscripts of the Lord
  2. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his own Son
How do you get "Jesus is the Holy Spirit" out of this ?
 
Other than the GodHead being three distinct names/entities, yet being "one", I don't agree with the premise that one is the other. At this point, I believe this comes from teaching and interpretation.

When you read the scripture of Acts 20:28 KJV, Holy Spirit possess the word "he" in the verse.

Acts 20:28

NIV
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood

NASB
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

ISV
Pay attention to yourselves and to the entire flock over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to be shepherds of God's church, which he acquired with his own blood.

American KJV
Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he has purchased with his own blood.

Now let's read how Jesus explains that he is the Holy Ghost.

John 14:16-18
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Verse 17 Jesus points out that he's the 1 that dwells in them and will be in them. He speaks about the comforter in verse 16 and then he proceeds to say I will not leave you comfortless and I will come to you. The Son (flesh) prayed to the omnipresent spirit of God. The same person prayed and the same person will come back. Jesus.

You're claim of 3 gods/entities is false. There's only 1.

Hear O' MMA Holy Ground the Lord our God is ONE. Jesus.




For your consideration....

I'd like to hear what paralell's if any, you derive from this, in relation to your premise.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Abba-Father.html

 


The article pointed out God chooses people and you can call God Father. Are you trying to show Calvinism or is there something I'm missing?
I'm not familiar with Calvanism. Phone Post
6/20/13 9:13 PM
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Saint Stevo
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Calvinism is predestination . Meaning you don't have a will because you're preordained. If I'm wrong on that, correct me please. Thx
6/20/13 9:26 PM
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sparkuri
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Saint Stevo - Calvinism is predestination . Meaning you don't have a will because you're preordained. If I'm wrong on that, correct me please. Thx
Not sure, but I can correct you on pre-destination, but's it's a difficult subject.
Pre-ordained is not lack of free will. If time were linear, as it is seemingly so in Heaven, then pre destination is matter of fact. But time is linear down here, so we have free will right now.
Easy as pie.lol Phone Post
6/22/13 2:09 PM
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Saint Stevo
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Yes I agree.. Lol
6/14/14 3:25 PM
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Stuart Scott's Eyeball
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Good discussion Phone Post 3.0
6/19/14 1:13 PM
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DBmma
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Edited: 06/19/14 1:15 PM
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I always thought Jesus was in tune with some kind of energy current and was a kind of vessel for it to flow thru. Maybe this baptism in his name is an attempt to become a link in that same chain although if the person doing the baptism isnt tuned into it himself then it may not work. Fana il sheikh is a similar concept.<br /><br />Now is that the exact same current as being in tune with the legitimate creator and source of everything? Not sure although it seems that his type of energy was divine love. Is the creators vibe divine love? or something else?
7/9/14 2:27 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Edited: 07/09/14 2:29 AM
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1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.


24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE VERSES BELOW?

27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”[a] But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
7/9/14 2:31 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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New International Version
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

New Living Translation
For the Scriptures say, "God has put all things under his authority." (Of course, when it says "all things are under his authority," that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)

English Standard Version
For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.

New American Standard Bible
For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.

King James Bible
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For God has put everything under His feet. But when it says "everything" is put under Him, it is obvious that He who puts everything under Him is the exception.

International Standard Version
for "God has put everything under his feet." Now when he says, "Everything has been put under him," this clearly excludes the one who put everything under him.

NET Bible
For he has put everything in subjection under his feet. But when it says "everything" has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For he brought all things to submission under his feet. But when it says, “All things are subjected to him”, it is understood that it excludes him who subjected all things to him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Clearly, God has put everything under Christ's authority. When God says that everything has been put under Christ's authority, this clearly excludes God, since God has put everything under Christ's authority.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is clear that he is excepted, who did put all things under him.

King James 2000 Bible
For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is clear that he is excepted, who did put all things under him.

American King James Version
For he has put all things under his feet. But when he said all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

American Standard Version
For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.

Douay-Rheims Bible
All things are put under him; undoubtedly, he is excepted, who put all things under him.

Darby Bible Translation
For he has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he says that all things are put in subjection, [it is] evident that [it is] except him who put all things in subjection to him.

English Revised Version
For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.

Webster's Bible Translation
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted who did put all things under him.

Weymouth New Testament
for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him.

World English Bible
For, "He put all things in subjection under his feet." But when he says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.

Young's Literal Translation
for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
7/9/14 2:32 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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New International Version
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

New Living Translation
Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God's authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

English Standard Version
When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

New American Standard Bible
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

King James Bible
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
And when everything is subject to Christ, then the Son Himself will also be subject to the One who subjected everything to Him, so that God may be all in all.

International Standard Version
But when everything has been put under him, then the Son himself will also become subject to the one who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

NET Bible
And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And when all is subjected to him, then the Son shall be subject to him who subjected all things to him, that God might be all in all.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
But when God puts everything under Christ's authority, the Son will put himself under God's authority, since God had put everything under the Son's authority. Then God will be in control of everything.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also subject himself unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

King James 2000 Bible
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

American King James Version
And when all things shall be subdued to him, then shall the Son also himself be subject to him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

American Standard Version
And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Darby Bible Translation
But when all things shall have been brought into subjection to him, then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all.)

English Revised Version
And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

Webster's Bible Translation
And when all things shall be subdued to him, then shall the Son also himself be subject to him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Weymouth New Testament
But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all.

World English Bible
When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

Young's Literal Translation
and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

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