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UnderGround Forums >> Rebney fires back at Alvarez


5/11/13 2:05 AM
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Dana Stern
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^Agree100% Phone Post
5/11/13 2:06 AM
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Dana Stern
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Not u Bellatard Fan the guy above u! Phone Post
5/11/13 2:12 AM
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stillmatic
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It's business, stop taking shit so personal.
5/11/13 2:23 AM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 05/11/13 2:26 AM
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I believe Eddie said they tried to get him to sign a revised version of the matching clause and his attorneys caught it before he signed it.

So bjorn showing the signed promotional agreement and the signed early release contract doesnt really refute what eddie said... unless i misunderstood what eddie said.

Bellator cant win with this.  IF you win the court case you have a disgruntled worker... and the most damaging aspect is that if they havent before, Every top prospect will be thinking twice about signing with bellator.

Bellator doesn't have to win they just want Eddie and Zuffa to lose.

As far as having a disgruntled employee as long as Eddie shows up to fight Bellator wins. What's Eddie going to do, lose on purpose? He may skip a few press conferences Diaz style but that's it.

Also a fighter has a limited amount of time to earn money. Add to that that the longer Bellator can drag this out the less chance of Eddie being successful in the top tier of the UFC. And that's if Eddie wins in court. Phone Post 3.0

 

if they win in court and eddie puts his head down and comes back they still dont win.  a year from now nobody will care about the chandler fight and you have a rusty fighter you just paid a six fiure signing bonus to.

 

How does bellator win? 

How does zuffa lose in all this?  they dont need alvarez.

Bellator is the only loser and Unfortunately so is eddie for the time being.


Because it's not about money.  Well it is, but long term money.  Bellator is willing to spend a lot of cash to keep Eddie, and on legal fees to make the UFC think twice before agressively going after one of their top guys.  It's not even about Eddie which Eddie understands and states with his "dick swinging" remark.  

I'm not siding with Bellator just stating what they are probably thinking.  

 

I understand what you're saying... but why on earth would this deter zuffa from going after more fighters? Zuffa isnt the one in court.  they really lose nothing. 

 

If bellator loses the court battle their contract and leverage over their other fighters has been weakened. if they win in court they just paid a ton of money for a fighter who has been on the bench for nearly 2 years.

Zuffa is gonna go after every guy just as aggressively if not more.wait until one of their champions becomes a free agent.

 

5/11/13 3:35 AM
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crwhitlock
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Edited: 05/11/13 3:35 AM
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To sum up Bjorn's retort, here it is. "Spike/Viacom are great ambassadors or MMA because they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars into MMA". Translation "they made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the UFC". When asked why so many Bellator fighters are all saying the same things about shady business practices, Bjorn basically says " I have no idea, their all lying". It's very clear where the truth lyes here, and it isn't with Bjorn.
5/11/13 3:37 AM
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StrikeforceSupporter
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Bellator is not this huge company like the UFC, yet. Bellator needs guys like Michael Chandler, Eddie Alvarez, Pat Curran, etc to grow and build this company, not turn it's back on the company. They need to play a role like Chuck Liddell did and like Tito Ortiz did when the UFC was growing. Sure, chuck and Tito could had said fuck you to the UFC and jumped ship over to the big leagues of PrideFc like many fighters did, but, no, they stuck with the organization, and they are rich now because of the UFC.
5/11/13 3:40 AM
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StrikeforceSupporter
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crwhitlock - To sum up Bjorn's retort, here it is. "Spike/Viacom are great ambassadors or MMA because they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars into MMA". Translation "they made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the UFC". When asked why so many Bellator fighters are all saying the same things about shady business practices, Bjorn basically says " I have no idea, their all lying". It's very clear where the truth lyes here, and it isn't with Bjorn.

Bellator is still a growing company, and, eventually, these fighters will see the bib-bucks, but, Bellator JUST started out with Spike, and, they can't just immediately pay all these fighters big-bucks, they have to grow the organization. It is not a major organization like the UFC is. Plus, the top fighters in Spike make 6 figs, and, with the growth of the sport and Bellator, they are going to be seeing million dollar pay checks. The Organization has only been around 5 years. It is a promising organization, and I wish Eddie would see this.
5/11/13 3:43 AM
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crwhitlock
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Personally speaking I will never support a Bellator/Spike MMA product. What their doing is wrong, and it's damaging people's lives. This was clearly an attempt at damage control with all these fighters coming out and saying their being legally manipulated and coerced into things they don't want. I mean Bjorn summed it up pretty clear. "We didn't get in this to be a feeder organization for the UFC" Translation: "Once you sign with us, your not leaving."
5/11/13 3:47 AM
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crwhitlock
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crwhitlock - To sum up Bjorn's retort, here it is. "Spike/Viacom are great ambassadors or MMA because they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars into MMA". Translation "they made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the UFC". When asked why so many Bellator fighters are all saying the same things about shady business practices, Bjorn basically says " I have no idea, their all lying". It's very clear where the truth lyes here, and it isn't with Bjorn.

Bellator is still a growing company, and, eventually, these fighters will see the bib-bucks, but, Bellator JUST started out with Spike, and, they can't just immediately pay all these fighters big-bucks, they have to grow the organization. It is not a major organization like the UFC is. Plus, the top fighters in Spike make 6 figs, and, with the growth of the sport and Bellator, they are going to be seeing million dollar pay checks. The Organization has only been around 5 years. It is a promising organization, and I wish Eddie would see this.

Viacom owns Bellator. Viacom is worth well over $5 billion dollars. The UFC is valued at around $1 billion dollars. So your argument that Bellator isn't paying it's fighters because they just can't afford it doesn't hold much weight.
5/11/13 3:51 AM
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crwhitlock
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Bellator Fan - How are they damaging people's lives when Alvarez fielded an offer from the UFC DURING THE MATCHING PERIOD and then gave it Bellator? All he had to do was wait 5 or 6 months. Phone Post 3.0

Well go talk to the laundry list of Bellator fighters or former Bellator fighters who all say the same thing, you may get the idea. Their young heavyweight champion retired to become a seed broker because he wasn't making enough money to feed his family.
5/11/13 3:54 AM
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daba
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crwhitlock - 
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crwhitlock - To sum up Bjorn's retort, here it is. "Spike/Viacom are great ambassadors or MMA because they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars into MMA". Translation "they made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the UFC". When asked why so many Bellator fighters are all saying the same things about shady business practices, Bjorn basically says " I have no idea, their all lying". It's very clear where the truth lyes here, and it isn't with Bjorn.

Bellator is still a growing company, and, eventually, these fighters will see the bib-bucks, but, Bellator JUST started out with Spike, and, they can't just immediately pay all these fighters big-bucks, they have to grow the organization. It is not a major organization like the UFC is. Plus, the top fighters in Spike make 6 figs, and, with the growth of the sport and Bellator, they are going to be seeing million dollar pay checks. The Organization has only been around 5 years. It is a promising organization, and I wish Eddie would see this.

Viacom owns Bellator. Viacom is worth well over $5 billion dollars. The UFC is valued at around $1 billion dollars. So your argument that Bellator isn't paying it's fighters because they just can't afford it doesn't hold much weight.

Viacom may own Bellator but it's a very small part of their company. I think a company called MTV is the part of Viacom that makes up most of that $5 billion. Bellator is valued at far less than a billion dollars and the UFC is generally valued at $2-3 Billion. While Viacom the parent company is bigger than the UFC, Bellator is not generating money like the UFC.

The UFC is the leading MMA org and basically sets the market price for fighters. Everyone else has to follow along so if you think guys are not being properly paid it's mostly likely due to the UFC. If you think guys are being adequately paid it goes back to the UFC again.
5/11/13 3:55 AM
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crwhitlock
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Bellator Fan - Eddie wanted Bellator to match or exceed it and now he's butthurt. They matched the $$ and now he's stuck. Dumb move but typical of fighters. Phone Post 3.0

Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people assume your unintelligent then open it and remove all doubt. A piece of advice you may want to take to heart bud. Eddie would have made $1.5 million dollars on his first UFC fight had he not been tied up in this mess. That's PPV money alone, not including his base pay and signing bonus. Using the word "butthurt" to describe a man losing millions of dollars..
5/11/13 3:58 AM
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crwhitlock
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daba - 
crwhitlock - 
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crwhitlock - To sum up Bjorn's retort, here it is. "Spike/Viacom are great ambassadors or MMA because they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars into MMA". Translation "they made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the UFC". When asked why so many Bellator fighters are all saying the same things about shady business practices, Bjorn basically says " I have no idea, their all lying". It's very clear where the truth lyes here, and it isn't with Bjorn.

Bellator is still a growing company, and, eventually, these fighters will see the bib-bucks, but, Bellator JUST started out with Spike, and, they can't just immediately pay all these fighters big-bucks, they have to grow the organization. It is not a major organization like the UFC is. Plus, the top fighters in Spike make 6 figs, and, with the growth of the sport and Bellator, they are going to be seeing million dollar pay checks. The Organization has only been around 5 years. It is a promising organization, and I wish Eddie would see this.

Viacom owns Bellator. Viacom is worth well over $5 billion dollars. The UFC is valued at around $1 billion dollars. So your argument that Bellator isn't paying it's fighters because they just can't afford it doesn't hold much weight.

Viacom may own Bellator but it's a very small part of their company. I think a company called MTV is the part of Viacom that makes up most of that $5 billion. Bellator is valued at far less than a billion dollars and the UFC is generally valued at $2-3 Billion. While Viacom the parent company is bigger than the UFC, Bellator is not generating money like the UFC.

The UFC is the leading MMA org and basically sets the market price for fighters. Everyone else has to follow along so if you think guys are not being properly paid it's mostly likely due to the UFC. If you think guys are being adequately paid it goes back to the UFC again.

Eddie would have made $1.5 million dollars in PPV money alone off his first UFC fight on the GSP card. Not including his signing bonus and base pay. Viacom is worth 7-10 times what the UFC is worth. And your argument is that it's the UFC's fault fighters aren't making money.
5/11/13 4:02 AM
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12SixElbow
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Here would be my suggestion. My suggestion would be, even if you don't trust what I'm telling you, just go to the court and pull a copy of the document, which anyone is allowed to do. You'll see the early release letter signed by Ed's council and by ours, and you'll see the contract, and you'll see that the language is exactly the same and there was no misleading, there was no lying, there was no switch of the cards underneath the deck - it is exactly what we were claiming it is.

 

 

Why doesn't an MMA media outlet go and do just this????

 

5/11/13 4:05 AM
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12SixElbow
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Eddie is in the wrong here IMO.

He signed the contract, finish out the contract.

Instead he is posting on twitter that he is going to go do bareknuckle fights in Florida to keep sharp, and whining about selling his second investment property in Florida, etc.... Eddie comes off TERRIBLE here IMO. The UFC doesn't let people out of contracts, they've gone to court with Penn, Couture, Tito, etc.... Bellator says it flat out, they aren't trying to be a feeder organization.

 

5/11/13 4:08 AM
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crwhitlock
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12SixElbow - 

Here would be my suggestion. My suggestion would be, even if you don't trust what I'm telling you, just go to the court and pull a copy of the document, which anyone is allowed to do. You'll see the early release letter signed by Ed's council and by ours, and you'll see the contract, and you'll see that the language is exactly the same and there was no misleading, there was no lying, there was no switch of the cards underneath the deck - it is exactly what we were claiming it is.

 

 

Why doesn't an MMA media outlet go and do just this????

 


Listen to the story. The papers they sent Eddie alone were the ones that were altered. It was an attempt to get him to slip up and sign a tweaked version. Had he signed it and sent it back then they would have filed it with the court, but he didn't sign it. They took a shot and missed. I could send you over a contract right now to had over all your assets to me, but it would mean nothing unless you signed it.
5/11/13 4:09 AM
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12SixElbow
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crwhitlock - 
12SixElbow - 

Here would be my suggestion. My suggestion would be, even if you don't trust what I'm telling you, just go to the court and pull a copy of the document, which anyone is allowed to do. You'll see the early release letter signed by Ed's council and by ours, and you'll see the contract, and you'll see that the language is exactly the same and there was no misleading, there was no lying, there was no switch of the cards underneath the deck - it is exactly what we were claiming it is.

 

 

Why doesn't an MMA media outlet go and do just this????

 


Listen to the story. The papers they sent Eddie alone were the ones that were altered. It was an attempt to get him to slip up and sign a tweaked version. Had he signed it and sent it back then they would have filed it with the court, but he didn't sign it. They took a shot and missed. I could send you over a contract right now to had over all your assets to me, but it would mean nothing unless you signed it.

So why doesn't Eddie show that document? If he is telling the truth?

Is he worried because it would be a false document, or does it even exist?

I've always been of the mentality that you don't bring things up you can't prove.

5/11/13 4:14 AM
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crwhitlock
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12SixElbow - 

Eddie is in the wrong here IMO.

He signed the contract, finish out the contract.

Instead he is posting on twitter that he is going to go do bareknuckle fights in Florida to keep sharp, and whining about selling his second investment property in Florida, etc.... Eddie comes off TERRIBLE here IMO. The UFC doesn't let people out of contracts, they've gone to court with Penn, Couture, Tito, etc.... Bellator says it flat out, they aren't trying to be a feeder organization.

 


Yes he signed a contract, and fulfilled that contract. In order to retain him past that point Bellator had to match any monetary offer Eddie received. Well had Eddie fought for the UFC on the GSP/Diaz card like he was offered to do, he would have made around $1.5 million in PPV money alone, not including his base pay and signing bonus. Bellator matched everything except the little $1.5 million "in one fight" part. Hard to call that a monetary match. Thus his Bellator contract should be null and void. They told the judge they "could" put on a PPV too. Which they've never done in the history of the company mind you. And do you think it would have done 800,000 buys if somehow they did do a PPV?
5/11/13 4:16 AM
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crwhitlock
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Edited: 05/11/13 4:27 AM
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Listen to the story. The papers they sent Eddie alone were the ones that were altered. It was an attempt to get him to slip up and sign a tweaked version. Had he signed it and sent it back then they would have filed it with the court, but he didn't sign it. They took a shot and missed. I could send you over a contract right now to had over all your assets to me, but it would mean nothing unless you signed it.

So why doesn't Eddie show that document? If he is telling the truth?Is he worried because it would be a false document, or does it even exist?I've always been of the mentality that you don't bring things up you can't prove.

It would be breach of contract to make any contract offer public. Bellator's deal has a total non disclosure clause "of course". If he made any documents public he would immediately be sued and would lose. Bellator knows he can't make that "baited" document public. The whole "check the court documents statement is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
5/11/13 4:25 AM
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crwhitlock
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Bellator Fan - That's all speculative. Eddie signed a contract saying he would stay with Bellator if they matched the guaranteed $$ and they did. Eddie will lose in court and he knows it. Phone Post 3.0

Speculative? No it's a fact. We have the PPV numbers, we have the UFC offer. Had he fought on the card that's exactly what he would have made. Maybe he will lose in court with an incompetent judge but that doesn't make it right. Your rooting for a fighter to lose millions of dollars.
5/11/13 4:27 AM
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yabadaba
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"It would be breach of contract to make any contract offer public. Bellator's deal has a total non disclosure clause "of course". If he made any documents public he would immediately be sued and would lose."

Are you just making this up?

5/11/13 4:31 AM
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crwhitlock
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yabadaba - 

 

"It would be breach of contract to make any contract offer public. Bellator's deal has a total non disclosure clause "of course". If he made any documents public he would immediately be sued and would lose."

Are you just making this up?


Check for yourself man. I'm not making it up. Go read Meltzer's story.. Go read Nate's story.. Bjorn says in his own interview with MMA fighting that it's all privy to non disclosure.
5/11/13 4:41 AM
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crwhitlock
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Edited: 05/11/13 4:44 AM
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Here are the facts. Eddie's contract with Bellator expired. He was free to leave unless Bellator matched his UFC offer dollar for dollar. The UFC contract offered him a $250k signing bonus, something like 90/90 per fight, and around $1.75 per PPV sold that he was on. He was offered a fight on the GSP/Diaz card. That card sold around 800,000 PPV's. So do the math, $1.75 times 800,000. Bellator using a legal, "wording" loophole said well we only have to match "guaranteed money". So they matched the $250k signing bonus and the 90/90, but nothing with the PPV. That one PPV alone would have paid Eddie more money than fighting in Bellator for 5 years will. Figure in Eddie fights on just 3-4 UFC PPV in his entire UFC career and your looking at $4-5 million dollars that he's going to lose by staying with Bellator. Keep in mind, his Bellator contract is expired, in order to retain him they had to match his UFC offer 'Dollar for Dollar". So no big deal, they just left out $4-$5 million dollars on the whole matching clause.
5/11/13 4:47 AM
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yabadaba
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The story by Melzter and this interview do not mention a non-disclosure clause (let alone that the clause applies to the contract itself).

5/11/13 4:50 AM
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crwhitlock
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Bellator Fan - "Speculative? No it's a fact. We have the PPV numbers, we have the UFC offer. Had he fought on the card that's exactly what he would have made. Maybe he will lose in court with an incompetent judge but that doesn't make it right. Your rooting for a fighter to lose millions of dollars."

It was speculative at the time and after the fact doesn't change that. That's like saying NOW we know for sure he would've made that much. At the time of the match that was all speculation and the judge agreed. Phone Post 3.0

No the judge did not agree to anything other than that it needed to go to trial. The only reason the judge didn't give Eddie the injunction to fight on that UFC PPV was this.. He asked the Bellator attorneys if they had a PPV ready for Eddie to fight on and they said Yes we do. Bellator has never done a PPV in the history of the company. They had no intention of doing a PPV. Their business is not a PPV model. Even if the did somehow manage to put on a PPV, they would have been lucky to do 100,000 buys. Probably more like 10,000 buys. GSP has never done a PPV lower than 700k buys. It was speculative no more than the sun is going to rise tomorrow.

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