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UnderGround Forums >> Rebney fires back at Alvarez


5/11/13 6:17 PM
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Thacommish
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fryingarmbar - 
Thacommish -
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Thacommish - 
liquidrob - And thats why it didn't count, let me ask you again, why didn't they offer more money?


actual money wasnt the issue, ufc was offering something that bellator could in no way match but the judge did not view that as the case.

Of course this comes down to money.  Tell me this.  If the UFC was expecting to pay Eddie a $250K signing bonus, $75K to show, and $400K (conservative amount on a Jones card), why not just offer him a flat fee of $725K to show with a $75K win bonus?  That would be the exact same amount you all say he would be getting paid with the UFC's offer and would have guaranteed Bellator wouldn't have matched.

Answer:  Because they never had any intention of putting him on that card and paying him a PPV bonus off the popularity of Jon Jones and Chael Sonnen.


The ufc wanted to make a 2nd offer that bellator could not match, the best way they could figure to do this was by adding ppv incentives, bellator found a way around that. Sure they couldve just kept throwing larger offers at eddie, and bellator couldve just as easily matched it.
Why "just as easily?" They didn't match what UFC offered Lombard. Phone Post 3.0

Exactly...  Not sure how he thinks that is the "best way the UFC could figure."  They are offering Eddie a hypothetical contract when offering PPV points and Bellator could hypothetically have a PPV card if they wanted to, but that's not even the point.

If the UFC really intended on paying Eddie that much, which they clearly did not, they would have offered it as show money and Bellator never would have paid that much.  It's that simple.  The UFC wants Eddie for around $75K + $75K plus his bonus and that's it.  That's what he's worth to them.  If they wanted to pay him $700K or $1.5M per fight, they would have put it in black in white and Bellator would not have matched.


So in your mind the "best way the ufc could figure" would be to get into a bidding war and just raise the value of eddies contract till it becomes to high for bellator to be able to negotiate, thus leaving zuffa with the end result. Or do you think they are trying to limit the amount of money they lose in the bidding war by offering incentives the other organization cannot offer?
5/11/13 7:14 PM
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yabadaba
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"Sure they couldve just kept throwing larger offers at eddie, and bellator couldve just as easily matched it."

Bellator can at least claim to match ppv incentives but replace that with guaranteed money and Bellator would be unlikely to match IMO (at least they did not with Lombard). If the Lombard deal had worked out better I suspect they would have offered Alvarez Lombard-type money and Alvarez would be in the UFC.

5/11/13 7:18 PM
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Thacommish
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Thacommish: 

Per your own article, they were "prepared" to offer him a bout on the GSP card.  Nothing was guaranteed.  Per that same article, there was a standing offer for him to compete on the Jones card, and the source for this was a letter written by Eddie.  I'd say a good source that he was GUARANTEED on a big card would be contract and per Bjorn, those are all publically available.  Somehow, I doubt this proof will ever be shown.

Zuffa's letter to Alvarez's attorneys clarifies that it had been prepared to offer Alvarez a bout (not specified as a title fight) at UFC 158: St. Pierre vs. Diaz on March 16 in Montreal, but it rescinded the offer due to promotional timing concerns.

 


Read the next sentence you dolt

" Zuffa's letter to Alvarez's attorneys clarifies that it had been prepared to offer Alvarez a bout (not specified as a title fight) at UFC 158: St. Pierre vs. Diaz on March 16 in Montreal, but it rescinded the offer due to promotional timing concerns.

In addition, Zuffa currently has a standing offer to Alvarez for a bout at UFC 159 in late April, but has altered its original contract offer to include the pay-per-view revenue perk (in addition to the negotiated $75,000 show and $75, 000 win purses), despite it not being a title fight. According to Alvarez's UFC offer, included in Bellator's complaint, the fighter stands to make an additional $1.00 for every buy between 200,000-400,000 units, $2.00 for each buy sold between 400,000- 600,000 units and $2.50 for each buy sold over 600,000 units. However, Zuffa contends it must have Alvarez's unfettered commitment by Jan. 27 to get the full 90 days it says it needs to properly promote the bout."

Yes Corky, ACCORDING TO A LETTER FROM EDDIE, as I already made clear to you.  That's the source.  A letter from Eddie.  Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

"according to a Jan. 10 letter included in a counterclaim Alvarez filed this week in United States District Court."

 


as opposed to your source which is?

It seems your latest position sounded really familiar, like something i said. Then i realized it was something i said.
5/11/13 7:22 PM
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Thacommish
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yabadaba - 

"Sure they couldve just kept throwing larger offers at eddie, and bellator couldve just as easily matched it."

Bellator can at least claim to match ppv incentives but replace that with guaranteed money and Bellator would be unlikely to match IMO (at least they did not with Lombard). If the Lombard deal had worked out better I suspect they would have offered Alvarez Lombard-type money and Alvarez would be in the UFC.


The problem is with hindsight, clearly it didnt work out for ufc and its easy to point at it now saying what they should have done, but i can definitely see why they explored the option
5/11/13 7:30 PM
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yabadaba
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Thacommish - 
yabadaba - 

"Sure they couldve just kept throwing larger offers at eddie, and bellator couldve just as easily matched it."

Bellator can at least claim to match ppv incentives but replace that with guaranteed money and Bellator would be unlikely to match IMO (at least they did not with Lombard). If the Lombard deal had worked out better I suspect they would have offered Alvarez Lombard-type money and Alvarez would be in the UFC.


The problem is with hindsight, clearly it didnt work out for ufc and its easy to point at it now saying what they should have done, but i can definitely see why they explored the option

I didn't say that's what they should have done. They got burned with Lombard and they wanted to make sure that didn't happen again. Things worked out just fine for the UFC IMO.

5/11/13 7:31 PM
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Thacommish
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liquidrob - And thats why it didn't count, let me ask you again, why didn't they offer more money?


actual money wasnt the issue, ufc was offering something that bellator could in no way match but the judge did not view that as the case.

Of course this comes down to money.  Tell me this.  If the UFC was expecting to pay Eddie a $250K signing bonus, $75K to show, and $400K (conservative amount on a Jones card), why not just offer him a flat fee of $725K to show with a $75K win bonus?  That would be the exact same amount you all say he would be getting paid with the UFC's offer and would have guaranteed Bellator wouldn't have matched.

Answer:  Because they never had any intention of putting him on that card and paying him a PPV bonus off the popularity of Jon Jones and Chael Sonnen.


The ufc wanted to make a 2nd offer that bellator could not match, the best way they could figure to do this was by adding ppv incentives, bellator found a way around that. Sure they couldve just kept throwing larger offers at eddie, and bellator couldve just as easily matched it.
Why "just as easily?" They didn't match what UFC offered Lombard. Phone Post 3.0

Exactly...  Not sure how he thinks that is the "best way the UFC could figure."  They are offering Eddie a hypothetical contract when offering PPV points and Bellator could hypothetically have a PPV card if they wanted to, but that's not even the point.

If the UFC really intended on paying Eddie that much, which they clearly did not, they would have offered it as show money and Bellator never would have paid that much.  It's that simple.  The UFC wants Eddie for around $75K + $75K plus his bonus and that's it.  That's what he's worth to them.  If they wanted to pay him $700K or $1.5M per fight, they would have put it in black in white and Bellator would not have matched.


So in your mind the "best way the ufc could figure" would be to get into a bidding war and just raise the value of eddies contract till it becomes to high for bellator to be able to negotiate, thus leaving zuffa with the end result. Or do you think they are trying to limit the amount of money they lose in the bidding war by offering incentives the other organization cannot offer?

You're the only one that keeps talking about this bidding war or the UFC offering more than 1 contract.  From my understand (and it appears everyone elses), the UFC had once chance to make an offer and Bellator had once chance to match it.   I'd love to see a source for this too.

It's funny.  You keep saying things that you have no evidence of as if they're fact.  Feel free to provide a source for any of your claims.  If you're just going to keep believe everything you hear, that fine but at least admit it.


I use the term bidding war because its a simplified way of explaining the philosophy you suggest ufc use
"It's that simple. The UFC wants Eddie for around $75K + $75K plus his bonus and that's it. That's what he's worth to them. If they wanted to pay him $700K or $1.5M per fight, they would have put it in black in white and Bellator would not have matched."
This is a bidding war, the end result is 1 side throwing up a value the other side can no longer match, whether because they dont have the money to, or whether its because they deem it no longer worth the money involved. I am trying to simply explain to you that this is not necessarily the best way to go about trying to acquire talent, or that maybe at the time other options like the ppv one seemed more appealing to the ufc.
5/11/13 8:05 PM
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Paka Ono
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Bjorn shouldn't talk ever. That guy never does himself or anyone any favors.

I feel for any fighter under contract with them.
5/12/13 12:38 AM
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stillmatic
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We can safely assume the UFC had zero intention of paying Eddie Alvarez anywhere near 1.5 million per fight. I suspect the only fighters touching that much money per fight are GSP, Anderson Silva and possibly Jon Jones.

5/12/13 1:01 AM
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JamesParades
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crwhitlock -
yabadaba - 

 

"It would be breach of contract to make any contract offer public. Bellator's deal has a total non disclosure clause "of course". If he made any documents public he would immediately be sued and would lose."

Are you just making this up?


Check for yourself man. I'm not making it up. Go read Meltzer's story.. Go read Nate's story.. Bjorn says in his own interview with MMA fighting that it's all privy to non disclosure.
But he didn't sign the contract he would be making public so there is no confidentiality agreement in effect with respect to that document, right? Phone Post 3.0
5/12/13 1:15 AM
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Jesus Quintana
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MMALOGIC - 

bjorn really takes off the gloves.  This is the first time He has stated "Bellator is not a feeder league and that they intend on challenging the UFC for the #1 spot"

some bold words.  Unfortunately we know what has happened to everyone else who has made that assertion.


they get acquired for millions of dollars like Strikeforce?
5/12/13 1:16 AM
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fryingarmbar
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Paka Ono - Bjorn shouldn't talk ever. That guy never does himself or anyone any favors.

I feel for any fighter under contract with them.
YOU shouldn't ever talk!!! Phone Post 3.0
5/12/13 1:18 AM
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12SixElbow
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stillmatic - We can safely assume the UFC had zero intention of paying Eddie Alvarez anywhere near 1.5 million per fight. I suspect the only fighters touching that much money per fight are GSP, Anderson Silva and possibly Jon Jones.


Exactly.

Thus the contract using terms like "intends to" and not, gaurenteeing he would only fight on PPV

5/12/13 7:52 PM
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Jone2tone
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Warrenpeace - This rebney is a real douche.
My thought exactly. I don't even care who's right or wrong at this point - I want Bellatore to lose just because Bjork is acting like an ass and coating a great fighter time from his career. Phone Post 3.0

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