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BJJGround Forum >> Gracies and the Birth of Vale Tudo


5/15/13 3:58 PM
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GrahamJ
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He wouldn't be the first person to hide behind a mask of righteousness: how many priests preach charity, but live in opulence?
Preach against homosexuality - but are engaged in homosexuality themselves?

Some people tell people what they want to hear - then when they've got them hooked, they twist the meaning to justify their demands: look at Limp Irvin, FFS; he's never gone "I'm a scumbag - join me!"...not directly, anyway.
5/15/13 4:32 PM
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EazyG
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Mick-

I have heard from a few other Gracies that Helio was very sensitive about other family members getting credit for their BJJ. One of Carlos' daughters almost said that verbatim. Could explain some of the distance from Rolls, Carlson, and Rickson, as they were the future of BJJ.
5/15/13 4:34 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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MickColins - 
The Mat Pimp - To be honest, your quote doesn't seem to support your position that Helio was such a self-aggrandizing egomaniac that he couldn't stand to see his sons succeed.
That's just a quote about Rickson. You dont find it weird that hed take a shit like that at his kid who was the current familt banner carrier? I was just passing on what the Gracie daughter in the vale tudo movie also said. It's a bummer the reila book won't ever be coming out in English. Phone Post 3.0

I don't think it's dumping on Rickson at all, I think it is being reasonable. The whole 400+ thing was silly. It's painfully obvious if you ever talk to Rorion, Relson, Royler, etc. that they adored their father and felt like he was the best dad in the world. I mention them because I have spoken to them personally; I imagine the same is true with Rickson but I have not had the pleasure of meeting him.

5/15/13 4:47 PM
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Moke
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I've seen footage of Helio praising Rickson and calling him the family champion.

As for that and any and all other quotes, everything has it's context. I would certainly hate to be judged on EVERYTHING I ever said 30 years after the fact by people who weren't there when I said it and weren't privy to the entire conversation and it's context.
5/15/13 4:49 PM
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MickColins
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I have no doubt they love their dad. I'm not saying their dad was a bad guy. Compared to Carlos, he was st Francis of Assisi. I'm just saying the dude had some jealousy issues apparently. Which is understandable . He's the youngest brother and the reila book said Carlos thought George and another brother had more potential than Helio. And Helio ended up better than both.

Shit, we all have issues. Phone Post 3.0
5/15/13 5:22 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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We do all have issues, but when I think of the huge accomplishment of Helio raising 9 children of his own, helping raise his brother's children, and creating an entire life path for them basically through his iron will and love for his family is strikes me as sad that people are so eager to believe the worst about him. Especially when the people who knew him best adored him.
5/15/13 6:10 PM
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MickColins
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We all seem to accept that Carlos was thuggish, a philanderer, a bad friend,gratuitous pr whore and generally a weird cat. I think whats been said about Helio is relatively tame. 

5/15/13 6:24 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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To be clear, I don't accept that at all. People loved and respected Carlos. I could care less what Reila says all these years later to sell books; she doesn't even have primary sources.

I will ask Relson about Carlos next time I see him though. He at least knew the guy.
5/16/13 2:26 AM
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WillyMaunawili
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Later Phone Post 3.0
5/16/13 2:58 AM
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MickColins
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The dude got sent to jail for jumping a guy outside of a tennis club, cheated on his wives, nailed his friends girlfriends and wives, fathered 26 kids, all the while saying a Peruvian spirit said it was a good idea. Carlos was a weird dude. Phone Post 3.0
5/16/13 10:51 AM
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Truemanc3
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I think if you find anything in the film it will be that families are families.... even if you are a famous martial art family, there will always be love, hate, fear, anger jealousy, envy, passion, joy, sadness and tragedy...

I think the Gracies are the best thing that ever happened to martial arts... they created 1 martial art, 3 sports and an industry that changed the lives of millions for the better.

They have done far more good than bad imo.
5/18/13 7:12 AM
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Master Bater
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this is an extras clip from the main doc

lots more rolling footage of Rolls vs Rickson and other brothers - (starts 31:50ish for about 20 minutes)

not in english but still good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jR9JnrfqY8&NR=1&feature=endscreen
5/18/13 8:54 AM
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Truemanc3
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5/18/13 8:56 AM
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Truemanc3
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5/22/13 2:56 PM
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EazyG
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The more I read about Carlos and Helio, the more I realize they had they issues just like the rest of us.

Didnt Helio have two different 'wives' each with their own set of kids at the same time? And he also impregnated their housemaid?

Sounds like neither one was a fan of monogamy.
5/22/13 3:58 PM
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MurdochIRL
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I was really hoping for more from Carlson. The movie was entertaining but missed out on some great opportunities. It would have been cool to show that they weren't unbeatable in today's MMA (sakuraba, Hughes). Phone Post 3.0
5/22/13 4:41 PM
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BigEyedFish
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EazyG - The more I read about Carlos and Helio, the more I realize they had they issues just like the rest of us.

Didnt Helio have two different 'wives' each with their own set of kids at the same time? And he also impregnated their housemaid?

Sounds like neither one was a fan of monogamy.

With the housemaid I think that it was an agreement that Helio and his wife made with her because his wife could not conceive. An unconventional arrangement to say the least but its not like Helio was Arnold Schwarznegger or anything
5/22/13 5:51 PM
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EazyG
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The housemaid thing was rather Biblical - Abraham and Sarah, I think.

Did Helio actually have two different wives concurrently, each with their own set of kids? I think I read that.

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