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HolyGround >> Receiving the Holy Ghost.


6/3/13 12:14 PM
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JitsuGuy
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workman43113 - Having said all this we should embrace our brothers even though they came here to argue the word and if any more is needed for a rebuke let's do it out of love remembering these men still follow God just as us although they are "children" in understanding the faith at this point in there walk.


1 Corinthians 14:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

There's nothing to argue... you believe it's the infallible word of God and many people don't. No arguing is going to change that.

When I was going through my slow deconversion process that took rougly a year, it wasn't the debating with atheists that caused me to stop believing. It was me and my questioning that I needed answers to. In a sense, it was my desire to seek out what was true to me and what made sense to me.
6/3/13 12:17 PM
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JitsuGuy
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gord96 - 
workman43113 - Having said all this we should embrace our brothers even though they came here to argue the word and if any more is needed for a rebuke let's do it out of love remembering these men still follow God just as us although they are "children" in understanding the faith at this point in there walk.


1 Corinthians 14:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Or many have already walked this path and got past it. Perhaps you are the 'children' in understanding truth? Your theology is very egocentric in that you must be right and everyone else is wrong. If someone disagrees with you, they are 'children' or 'deceived' or 'lacking faith'. This is not uncommon. Most faiths are egocentric.


Precisely. God created a religion that causes more division than it does unity. Not only within the whole of humanity but within the ranks. I mean, how many versions of the bible are there? How many denominations are there?

And God is not the author of confusion? I just don't see it that way.
6/3/13 12:25 PM
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workman43113
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gord96 - 
workman43113 - Having said all this we should embrace our brothers even though they came here to argue the word and if any more is needed for a rebuke let's do it out of love remembering these men still follow God just as us although they are "children" in understanding the faith at this point in there walk.


1 Corinthians 14:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Or many have already walked this path and got past it. Perhaps you are the 'children' in understanding truth? Your theology is very egocentric in that you must be right and everyone else is wrong. If someone disagrees with you, they are 'children' or 'deceived' or 'lacking faith'. This is not uncommon. Most faiths are egocentric.


First if I came off egocentric I apologize that was not my intent.

To address your other comments I don't believe SaintStevo was "deceived" or "lacking faith" infact I think he is probably a God seeking/loving man full of faith which I had already stated above which you may not have read which is no big deal I don't always read huge long post's either so I don't blame you.

As far as my comment about "children in understanding" I'm merely communicating something to another person of God what the scripture teaches us I mean no malice with it.

Take into consideration I'm not saying my "idea" or "theology" is correct I'm just pointing out to another brother in faith some scripture.

So again I apologize you got riled up over that even though I feel it shouldn't have upset. So just for the dialogue you get a VOTE UP FREN
6/3/13 12:27 PM
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workman43113
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Well good points I would like to discuss them more but I have to go to the office. You think another thread about that topic would be better fitting? I just don't wanna get off topic.
6/3/13 12:38 PM
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gord96
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workman43113 - 
gord96 - 
workman43113 - Having said all this we should embrace our brothers even though they came here to argue the word and if any more is needed for a rebuke let's do it out of love remembering these men still follow God just as us although they are "children" in understanding the faith at this point in there walk.


1 Corinthians 14:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Or many have already walked this path and got past it. Perhaps you are the 'children' in understanding truth? Your theology is very egocentric in that you must be right and everyone else is wrong. If someone disagrees with you, they are 'children' or 'deceived' or 'lacking faith'. This is not uncommon. Most faiths are egocentric.


First if I came off egocentric I apologize that was not my intent.

To address your other comments I don't believe SaintStevo was "deceived" or "lacking faith" infact I think he is probably a God seeking/loving man full of faith which I had already stated above which you may not have read which is no big deal I don't always read huge long post's either so I don't blame you.

As far as my comment about "children in understanding" I'm merely communicating something to another person of God what the scripture teaches us I mean no malice with it.

Take into consideration I'm not saying my "idea" or "theology" is correct I'm just pointing out to another brother in faith some scripture.

So again I apologize you got riled up over that even though I feel it shouldn't have upset. So just for the dialogue you get a VOTE UP FREN

No need to apologize workman. I didn't mean your posts were egocentric at all. Nor did they rile me up. :)

I must also apologize as I misread your post and didn't realize your position. I thought you were supporting Stevo's position. So the fault is mine.


6/3/13 5:22 PM
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Saint Stevo
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Hello Workman,

Thank you for your post toward me. I appreciate your acknowledgement that I seek God as well as you do also. I am happy to say however that I've found God weaving my way through false doctrines the night I've received the Holy Ghost when his spirit flowed in me and living water flowed out. All glory belongs to Jesus! I'll continue.

The fruit of the spirit which I don't deny according to Galatians 5 is true.
This is what the spirit brings out into everybody who after receiving the HG. However for anyone to say they master all these qualities would to a perfect T. Would be a liar. These fruits produce throughout your life with God's Spirit molding you into what he wants. It depends on how submissive you are to it. This is what the Spirit brings. I agree. You yourself claim that you have the HG would be a liar to say that you hold these qualities at all times. This is why Paul writes the epistles on how to be, act, and follow what the Spirit is leading you toward.

These are not the initial signs however of receiving the HG. If you read the beginning thread it explains by scripture alone how you know when you're born of the spirit by what Jesus talked about in John 3:8. The scriptures in the beginning of the thread will explain.


On to the part of you pointing out that I have no fruit of the spirit by the way I treat people would be false claim against me. I show love by pointing out the truth that's in the bible. I contend for the faith that was once givin to the saints according to Jude 1:3. I have no problem with you pointing out stuff to me. You just need to be ready to receive. I have no bitterness to what people say to me on this thread. I've been falsely accused and my God has been trashed talked before me. I will stand and contend against anybody for the truth and for my 1 God Jesus.

Peter expressed toward the people on the day of Pentecost how they was stubborn and they killed Jesus according to their sins. I didn't see anybody stand up and say "Hey Peter your being mean and showing no fruit." Nobody did because Peter spoke all truth. When Stephen was stoned by his people declaring them stiffnecks. I don't remember anybody correcting him saying he didn't bare fruit. Why? Cause the apostles contend for there faith and stick up for there God. I haven't used foul language toward anybody but I've only used scripture and pointed out truth. I'm a grown man and I know how to act as well as you. So before you act like a father to me, you need to use wisdom before you try to correct somebody. Thx.

As for the arguing and the debating. This is not for the person that I contend with alone but it's all for whoever reads. Therefore this is not in vain.

1Corinthians 12 - the gifts of the spirit is Paul talking about the edifying of the church. Verse 29-30 is explaining that not everyone has the gifts of healing, speaking in tongues toward the church and the interpretation of the tongues. When Paul speaks in this chapter he's explaining as the body of Christ (1Corinth. 12:12-13). Paul is not referring to the birth of the spirit like the day of pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). This is 2 different classifications of the tongues. Paul explains throughout chapter 12 through that these particular gifts need to stay together as 1 body.

Paul talks about speaking in tongues through chapter 13 through 14 and referencing the tongues for the church and prayer tongues for self edification. He also references this in Romans 8:26 about the prayer tongue. These scriptures still have nothing to do with the birth of the spirit of what Peter talked about in Acts 11:15-16.

I've read your scriptures about the people being filled with the spirit and not speaking in tongues. These examples are not what Jesus was talking about in John 3:8. Read John 7:39 explaining the spirit has not been givin yet because Jesus was not glorified yet. So your Luke scriptures are not the same of being born of the spirit.

I enjoy discussing with you. Glory be to Jesus! I love everyone on this site. If I didn't they wouldn't receive truth. : )
6/3/13 5:41 PM
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Saint Stevo
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A quick note. Everyone did speak in tongues. The scripture did not need to reference every time someone was born of the spirit that they spoke in tongues. The scriptures also did not point out every time they repented but we all assume they did for part of salvation.

Workman you've noted that the bible only said the word tongues 3 times in act. I have to ask. How many times does the bible have to say the word for you to believe. 3,50,100 times?

Simon the sorcerer saw the spirit poured on the people and wanted to pay money to posses this power. It didn't say how he knew they received the spirit though. We know Simon saw cause the sign was tongues. Acts 8:13-19
6/3/13 6:55 PM
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MoustacheRider69
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Question: So, if I don't speak in tongues, i don't have the holy spirit? Phone Post
6/3/13 7:13 PM
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Saint Stevo
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MoustacheRider69 -  Question: So, if I don't speak in tongues, i don't have the holy spirit? Phone Post

Acts 19
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

Notice. It says when Paul laid his hands on them. The Holy Ghost came on them. Look in verse 2 Paul ask have you recieved the Holy Ghost since you believers. He's showing in that line alone that once you believe you don't always recieve the spirit right then.

Now to answer your question. When we read by scripture alone. There's no HG without the evidence of speaking in tongues
6/3/13 7:33 PM
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MoustacheRider69
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Saint Stevo -
MoustacheRider69 -  Question: So, if I don't speak in tongues, i don't have the holy spirit? Phone Post

Acts 19
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

Notice. It says when Paul laid his hands on them. The Holy Ghost came on them. Look in verse 2 Paul ask have you recieved the Holy Ghost since you believers. He's showing in that line alone that once you believe you don't always recieve the spirit right then.

Now to answer your question. When we read by scripture alone. There's no HG without the evidence of speaking in tongues
Phone Post
6/3/13 10:03 PM
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Saint Stevo
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LOL!
6/3/13 10:45 PM
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RoninBT
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MoustacheRider69 - 
Saint Stevo -
MoustacheRider69 -  Question: So, if I don't speak in tongues, i don't have the holy spirit? Phone Post

Acts 19
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

Notice. It says when Paul laid his hands on them. The Holy Ghost came on them. Look in verse 2 Paul ask have you recieved the Holy Ghost since you believers. He's showing in that line alone that once you believe you don't always recieve the spirit right then.

Now to answer your question. When we read by scripture alone. There's no HG without the evidence of speaking in tongues
Phone Post

Thank you Mr. Rider..... I laughed for a good 5 minutes.
6/13/13 1:18 PM
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workman43113
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He goes to a oneness Pentecostal/Apostolic I know because I attend one of these churches despite not believing in the interpretation they have. Good people overall God seeking folks
6/13/13 1:23 PM
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workman43113
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Cool where are you now spiritually
6/13/13 1:41 PM
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workman43113
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Sounds like your on the right path "seek and ye shall find"
6/13/13 2:23 PM
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MoustacheRider69
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Re: tongues

1 Corinthians 14:1-40 ESV

Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played?

And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.

There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.

So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?

For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. In the Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord."

Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.

What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.

But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.

If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.

For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home.

For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.

If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order. Phone Post
6/13/13 2:25 PM
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gord96
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bozy -  Thanx bro. One question for whoever...I have been filled before, on more than one occasion spoke in tongues. Now, I know the feeling of being filled and over flowing and not being able to control myself. Not questioning that.

But I can't help to hear other people that speak in tongues, seem to say the same thing over and over. Im not being sarcastic or sacrilegious. I have asked my paw before he died and he was startled bye the question as if I were possessed. I asked the professor at seminary and got the abstain from vain and foolish questions.

My question is what is your theory on this if any. Phone Post

When someone says 'abstain from vain and foolish questions' they are usually full of shit and don't want you to look for truth. It's what happens when one wraps themselves so thoroughly around a theology that they are almost offended when you ask them an honest question. (and your question was honest). Honest questions are not bad things.

I'm not questioning that you had a real experience with your tongues and all that, but i am willing to bet many people are just babbling to fit in or maybe they actually believe they are speaking in tongues and don't want to snap out of their delusion.

My 2 cents. All the best on your journey.
6/13/13 2:47 PM
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MoustacheRider69
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Disregard sn. Lost sn bet. Lol Phone Post
6/14/13 6:00 PM
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770mdm
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Don't knock your seminary professor to much.  When Yeshivah Buchars ask out of the box questions they're also given the silent treatment.  They're there to put you on the path only.  Once the Buchar or student graduates they're pretty much free to explore but only with that solid backing of the basics from the school of thought they're attending. 

6/18/13 4:46 PM
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zealot66
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Well I guess Im headed straight for hell because I don't speak in tongues. Nice knowing you all. See you at the seperation of the sheep and goats.

6/19/13 2:36 AM
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MoustacheRider69
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bozy - Yeah bro lurked along time. This place gets crazy. What fight? Phone Post
HUNTO v. JDS Phone Post
6/19/13 9:30 AM
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Saint Stevo
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bozy -  Grew up In a Church of God. Grandpaw was the preacher. Alot of the same views is why I asked. Phone Post

I'm curious. What's church of God? I heard of them. I never looked the, up though
6/19/13 9:33 AM
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Saint Stevo
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zealot66 - 

Well I guess Im headed straight for hell because I don't speak in tongues. Nice knowing you all. See you at the seperation of the sheep and goats.


I agree. If your speechless you will not make it.

Matthew 22
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
6/19/13 11:29 AM
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gord96
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Edited: 06/19/13 11:33 AM
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Saint Stevo -I agree. If your speechless you will not make it.


Silly man made theology that does nothing but cause egotism and division.
6/19/13 2:43 PM
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Saint Stevo
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gord96 - 
Saint Stevo -I agree. If your speechless you will not make it.


Silly man made theology that does nothing but cause egotism and division.

I'm convinced it's silly because you said so without scripture. :)

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