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HolyGround >> Re: baptism.


5/17/13 3:17 PM
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MEOWticket
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Should we baptize "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" or "in the name of Jesus?"


The proper form of baptism is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as Jesus designated in Matt. 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."  The clear command of Jesus is to baptize this way.  But, if that is so, then why do we see so many instances in the New Testament where people were baptized "in Jesus' name"?


Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days."

Acts 19:5
And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
The reason they were baptizing "in the name of Jesus" is not because it was a formula, but because the phrase, "in the name of" means "in the authority of. 



We can see proof of this in Acts 4:7-10

And when they had placed them in the center, they began to inquire, 'By what power, or in what name, have you done this?' Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, 'Rulers and elders of the people, if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well, let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by this name this man stands here before you in good health.'


The Jews asked "by what power, or in what name, have you done this?"  Peter answers and says that it was in the name of Jesus that they had healed.  In other words, "in the name of Jesus" means that it is by the power and authority found in Christ.  We can see this usage many places in the New Testament.

Acts 3:6
But Peter said, "I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene - walk!"

Acts 16:18
And she continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment."

1 Cor. 5:4-5
"In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

1 Cor. 6:11
"And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."

Eph. 5:20
"always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father."

2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep aloof from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us."


As you can see, "in the name of the Lord Jesus" and "in the name of Jesus" speaks of "in the authority of Jesus."  Therefore, when someone is properly baptized, they are baptized in the name of Jesus; that is, by the authority of Jesus.  Therefore, when they are properly baptized in the name of Jesus, they should say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," just as Jesus commanded us to do. Phone Post
5/17/13 3:19 PM
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MEOWticket
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5/17/13 4:12 PM
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Saint Stevo
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So Peter and Paul was doing baptism wrong in Acts 19:5?

Acts 19:5
5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 8
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

This would make them heretics right? Cause they caused evil by no baptizing f,s,HG, meaning not obeying

Jesus is the authority because He's Jehovah in the flesh. (1Tim3:16,coloss.2:9)
He's not a representive of God. He is God. Why? Because there is no one beside Jehovah (Isaiah 44:6, 44:8, 45:5-8,45:18, 48:11-16,46:9 beside god is no other)

There is no scripture example baptizing in the titles f,s,&hg. Just Jesus Name only. So no, it would be wrong and pointless to baptize f,s,HG.

Jesus said baptize in the NAME meaning singular in Matthew 28:19.

Jesus did not say baptize in the nameS meaning plural in Matthew 28:19.

Peter understood the name is Jesus. That's why he declared Acts 2:38 baptize in Jesus name.

Also Luke 24:47 Jesus said remission of sins will be preached "IN HIS NAME" to recieve remission of sins. He did not say in the nameS f,s,HG for remission of sins.

Again Peter understood and said baptism Jesus name alone.

So to say baptize in the nameS father, son, & HG. Would be incorrect.

Acts 2:38 is the only. : )

PRAISE THE 1 GOD JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH!


5/17/13 4:35 PM
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MEOWticket
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5/17/13 4:48 PM
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Saint Stevo
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LOL! Your pics crack me up
5/17/13 9:04 PM
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gord96
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No theology is 100% biblical. A person picks one, focuses on the main scripture that supports it and glosses over the ones that don't.

Meow posted some scripture, Stevo posted some back. Who's right? Who's wrong? Everyone and no one. Phone Post 3.0
5/18/13 12:13 AM
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Saint Stevo
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I agree Gord. That's why I stay scripture only. I don't add doctrines in like for instance ummmmm
Trinity.
5/18/13 12:22 AM
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MEOWticket
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Edited: 05/18/13 12:24 AM
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Saint Stevo - I agree Gord. That's why I stay scripture only. I don't add doctrines in like for instance ummmmm
Trinity.


*cough*Monarchianism*cough* excuse me. Phone Post
5/18/13 8:54 AM
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5/18/13 9:00 AM
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Saint Stevo
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Lol. Call it what you will. I prefer to sum it up as.

deuteronomy 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
5/18/13 2:36 PM
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MEOWticket
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Saint Stevo - Lol. Call it what you will. I prefer to sum it up as.

deuteronomy 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Us as in God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit.

If he meant us as in God and angels, then why don't we have wings, and stand 15 or so feet tall?


Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."




Matthew 3:16-17

And when JESUS was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

YES, THE FATHER IS WELL PLEASED.


TWO DIFFERENT WILLS

Matthew 26:39

And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."



Here's John

1 John 1:1-3

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our FELLOWSHIP is with the FATHER and with his SON Jesus Christ.



Here's Peter



1 Peter 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the FATHER, in the sanctification of the SPIRIT, for obedience to JESUS CHRIST and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.


Here's Paul
(Also mentions in his other letters)


Galatians 1:1-5

Paul, an apostle— not from men nor through man, but through JESUS CHRIST and GOD THE FATHER, who raised him from the dead— and all the brothers who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: Grace to you and peace from GOD OUR FATHER AND the LORD JESUS CHRIST, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our GOD AND FATHER, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.



Here's Jude


Jude 1:1-2

Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, To those who are called, beloved in GOD THE FATHER AND kept for JESUS CHRIST: May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.


Here's revelation
we already know who the Lamb is.


Revelation 14:1

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the LAMB, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his FATHER's name written on their foreheads.



Look. We both know God is one. We both know scripture has the final say. But I don't believe God is one individual who wears different masks throughout the bible...


:/

I love you saint steveO. Phone Post
5/18/13 3:09 PM
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5/18/13 5:57 PM
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the rooster
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meow: As you can see, "in the name of the Lord Jesus" and "in the name of Jesus" speaks of "in the authority of Jesus." Therefore, when someone is properly baptized, they are baptized in the name of Jesus; that is, by the authority of Jesus. Therefore, when they are properly baptized in the name of Jesus, they should say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit," just as Jesus commanded us to do.

me: wrong.

"In the name of..." does mean authority but the authority IS IN THE NAME. That's why when the apostles cast out demons, healed the sick (blessed food, etc.) they called on or invoked THE NAME OF JESUS. The authority is in the name.

You are not obeying Jesus when you repeat His commandment rather that doing it.

If I say, "go and dig a ditch" and you repeat my command, "dig a ditch" you are not obeying.

Jesus said to baptize in ONE NAME (SINGULAR) that belongs to or pertains to or is possessed by three titles.

and they did. They all baptized (and blessed food, and cast out demons, and healed the sick) by invoking the authority found in the revealed personal name of the living God.
5/19/13 4:30 PM
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Saint Stevo
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MEOWticket - 
Saint Stevo - Lol. Call it what you will. I prefer to sum it up as.

deuteronomy 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Us as in God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit.

If he meant us as in God and angels, then why don't we have wings, and stand 15 or so feet tall?


Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."




Matthew 3:16-17

And when JESUS was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the SPIRIT OF GOD descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

YES, THE FATHER IS WELL PLEASED.


TWO DIFFERENT WILLS

Matthew 26:39

And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will."



Here's John

1 John 1:1-3

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our FELLOWSHIP is with the FATHER and with his SON Jesus Christ.



Here's Peter



1 Peter 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the FATHER, in the sanctification of the SPIRIT, for obedience to JESUS CHRIST and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.


Here's Paul
(Also mentions in his other letters)


Galatians 1:1-5

Paul, an apostle— not from men nor through man, but through JESUS CHRIST and GOD THE FATHER, who raised him from the dead— and all the brothers who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: Grace to you and peace from GOD OUR FATHER AND the LORD JESUS CHRIST, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our GOD AND FATHER, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.



Here's Jude


Jude 1:1-2

Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, To those who are called, beloved in GOD THE FATHER AND kept for JESUS CHRIST: May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.


Here's revelation
we already know who the Lamb is.


Revelation 14:1

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the LAMB, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his FATHER's name written on their foreheads.



Look. We both know God is one. We both know scripture has the final say. But I don't believe God is one individual who wears different masks throughout the bible...


:/

I love you saint steveO. Phone Post

Praise The Lord!

Where does it state that all angels have wings and stand 15 ft.?

Mark 16

5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

Has Mary noting a man. I believe if he stood out. It would've Mentioned a man with wings noted with his garment. Which shows angels have Gods image as well. They are called sons of God. Just like when we conform to Jesus we become sons of God.

Also. Scripture tells us angels were the only ones present to hear God speak.

Job 38
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

********************

Matthew 3:16-17
The father was pleased. Question. Was the voice from heaven for Jesus or was it for the people around?

John 12:30
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

Notice also there's no dialoging between Jesus and the voice from heaven.

**************************

Matthew 26:39

Jesus praying for what the flesh felt. Just like when we pray to Gods spirit to voice our concerns and worries. Jesus flesh did not want to die (Matt. 26:41). Naturally like ours doesn't want to die which goes back to what Jesus said Not his will as flesh but Gods will spirit must be done. If we acknowledge another God there this makes The Son and Ftaher separate which makes multiple Gods and cancels out Deuteronomy 6:4.

*****************************

1john 1:1-3
Fellowship with the Father and with his Son. The son is the flesh that sacrifice for our sins. His flesh that paid our price for our sins mediates us to the father (1Tim.2:5). Also John explains this in (
1john 2:1)
What else is interesting. Why doesn't John point out the 3 god in the Trinity. HG. Why is it not in this passage? if we have a trinity, why are we only close to the F&S but not the Holy Ghost.

******************************

1 Peter 1:1-2 ,Galatians 1:1-5,Jude 1:1-2
Salutations..

A good fact to note is that in all of the salutations of the epistles the 3 person (god)Holy Ghost is not mentioned. If they're coequal as according to the trinity dogma, surely Paul and Peter would've noted his importance also. If the Christian God consist of 3 person (gods) would have to note it. What else is interesting the title Son is missing in the salutations as well. Jews and Gentiles understood one God of the Hebrews before this trinity confusion came out. They understood the Greek word kurios belong to one God. Lord GOd the father of the Old Testament and now New Testament Lord belongs to Jesus Christ. Why? Because there's only 1 Lord (Ephesians 4:5).

******************************

Amen! Revelation that God the father and the lambs one name is Jesus Zechariah 14:9

There's no mask. Just relationships. I have a relationship with my son as Stevo the father. I have a relationship with my dad as Stevo the son. I have a relationship with my wife as Stevo the husband.
1 Person with one name and no mask. Just a big smile. ; )

It's that simple

PRAISE THE 1 GOD JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH!
5/19/13 4:31 PM
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Saint Stevo
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I love you to Meow : )
5/19/13 4:53 PM
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gord96
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Saint Stevo - I agree Gord. That's why I stay scripture only. I don't add doctrines in like for instance ummmmm
Trinity.
Even 'sticking with scripture', your view isn't supported 100%. Not saying the trinitarian view is either. Phone Post 3.0
5/19/13 5:23 PM
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MEOWticket
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"Where does it state that all angels have wings and stand 15 ft.?"

I never said ALL.

Ezekiel 1:4-28

As I looked, behold, a stormy wind came out of the north, and a great cloud, with brightness around it, and fire flashing forth continually, and in the midst of the fire, as it were gleaming metal. And from the midst of it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had a human likeness, but each had four faces, and each of them had four wings. Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the sole of a calf's foot.

And they sparkled like burnished bronze. Under their wings on their four sides they had human hands. And the four had their faces and their wings thus: their wings touched one another. Each one of them went straight forward, without turning as they went.

As for the likeness of their faces, each had a human face. The four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle. Such were their faces. And their wings were spread out above.

Each creature had two wings, each of which touched the wing of another, while two covered their bodies. And each went straight forward. Wherever the spirit would go, they went, without turning as they went.

As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches moving to and fro among the living creatures. And the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

And the living creatures darted to and fro, like the appearance of a flash of lightning. Now as I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the earth beside the living creatures, one for each of the four of them.

As for the appearance of the wheels and their construction: their appearance was like the gleaming of beryl. And the four had the same likeness, their appearance and construction being as it were a wheel within a wheel.

When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went. And their rims were tall and awesome, and the rims of all four were full of eyes all around. And when the living creatures went, the wheels went beside them; and when the living creatures rose from the earth, the wheels rose.

Wherever the spirit wanted to go, they went, and the wheels rose along with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those rose from the earth, the wheels rose along with them, for the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.

Over the heads of the living creatures there was the likeness of an expanse, shining like awe-inspiring crystal, spread out above their heads. And under the expanse their wings were stretched out straight, one toward another. And each creature had two wings covering its body. And when they went, I heard the sound of their wings like the sound of many waters, like the sound of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of an army.

When they stood still, they let down their wings. And there came a voice from above the expanse over their heads. When they stood still, they let down their wings.

And above the expanse over their heads there was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like sapphire; and seated above the likeness of a throne was a likeness with a human appearance. And upward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were gleaming metal, like the appearance of fire enclosed all around.

And downward from what had the appearance of his waist I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and there was brightness around him. Like the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud on the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness all around. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord . And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard the voice of one speaking. Phone Post
5/19/13 5:23 PM
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MEOWticket
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Ezekiel 10:1-14 ESV

Then I looked, and behold, on the expanse that was over the heads of the cherubim there appeared above them something like a sapphire, in appearance like a throne.

And he said to the man clothed in linen, "Go in among the whirling wheels underneath the cherubim. Fill your hands with burning coals from between the cherubim, and scatter them over the city."

And he went in before my eyes. Now the cherubim were standing on the south side of the house, when the man went in, and a cloud filled the inner court. And the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub to the threshold of the house, and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was filled with the brightness of the glory of the Lord .

And the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard as far as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when he speaks. And when he commanded the man clothed in linen, "Take fire from between the whirling wheels, from between the cherubim," he went in and stood beside a wheel.

And a cherub stretched out his hand from between the cherubim to the fire that was between the cherubim, and took some of it and put it into the hands of the man clothed in linen, who took it and went out.

The cherubim appeared to have the form of a human hand under their wings. And I looked, and behold, there were four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub, and the appearance of the wheels was like sparkling beryl.

And as for their appearance, the four had the same likeness, as if a wheel were within a wheel. When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went, but in whatever direction the front wheel faced, the others followed without turning as they went.

And their whole body, their rims, and their spokes, their wings, and the wheels were full of eyes all around—the wheels that the four of them had. As for the wheels, they were called in my hearing "the whirling wheels."

And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of the cherub, and the second face was a human face, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.



Isaiah 6:1-7

In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim.

Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!"

Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for."


Daniel 10:16-17

And behold, one in the likeness of the children of man touched my lips. Then I opened my mouth and spoke.

I said to him who stood before me, "O my lord, by reason of the vision pains have come upon me, and I retain no strength.

How can my lord's servant talk with my lord? For now no strength remains in me, and no breath is left in me."


Revelation 12:7-9

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world— he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.



Revelation 10:5-7

And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.



Sounds tall or long to be standing on the sea and the land.


To be honest saint Steveo i don't know where i got 15ft or more, please forgive me for that mistake. But the angel that is described in rev sounds big.also I'm not saying that there aren't angels with human likeness but God made humans in His image or Our, i should say as mentioned in genesis. Phone Post
5/19/13 6:44 PM
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Saint Stevo
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Genesis 19:5 shows them saying bring out the men. We know they were angels coming to Lot.

I can pull up scriptures pointing out how angels look like us but I think you get the picture.

Anyhow, I believe the angels have a same image as a head torso eyes, so on. Not saying all angels do but the scripture I sent of Job shows that the angels were the only ones present.

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