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UnderGround Forums >> John Cholish blasts UFC fighter pay


5/30/13 6:12 PM
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Thacommish
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dubate - 
Thacommish - btw thats not the same argument at all, i can justify my position based on being a nice person and a fan of the sport, your position is you are an asshole who wants to tell people like cholish that they arent worth what an assembly worker is. Not quite the same thing.
You're so cute with the name calling. Phone Post

gotta call a spade a spade, the fact you cant justify why he shouldnt make more is laughable like you are protecting some horded pile of money that isnt even yours, and labeling who doth and doth not deserve.
5/30/13 6:24 PM
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dubate
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Thacommish -
dubate - 
Thacommish - btw thats not the same argument at all, i can justify my position based on being a nice person and a fan of the sport, your position is you are an asshole who wants to tell people like cholish that they arent worth what an assembly worker is. Not quite the same thing.
You're so cute with the name calling. Phone Post

gotta call a spade a spade, the fact you cant justify why he shouldnt make more is laughable like you are protecting some horded pile of money that isnt even yours, and labeling who doth and doth not deserve.
I have given facts as to why he shouldn't be paid more. He has a losing record in his organization against people who aren't even in the top 25 in a sport where only the top 12 or so really matter as far as ratings and PPV buys are concerned. Now I'll grant you that it's not as persuasive an argument as "being a nice guy" but it's all I've got. I have no problem with fighters who win getting paid money I just haven't heard any of them complain. Phone Post
5/30/13 6:43 PM
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Thacommish
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dubate - 
Thacommish -
dubate - 
Thacommish - btw thats not the same argument at all, i can justify my position based on being a nice person and a fan of the sport, your position is you are an asshole who wants to tell people like cholish that they arent worth what an assembly worker is. Not quite the same thing.
You're so cute with the name calling. Phone Post

gotta call a spade a spade, the fact you cant justify why he shouldnt make more is laughable like you are protecting some horded pile of money that isnt even yours, and labeling who doth and doth not deserve.
I have given facts as to why he shouldn't be paid more. He has a losing record in his organization against people who aren't even in the top 25 in a sport where only the top 12 or so really matter as far as ratings and PPV buys are concerned. Now I'll grant you that it's not as persuasive an argument as "being a nice guy" but it's all I've got. I have no problem with fighters who win getting paid money I just haven't heard any of them complain. Phone Post

Oh really your argument was about being top 25 in a sport? I mustve missed that with all the bullshit you were typing about assembly line workers at honda and how they make more money and are more easily replaced. Youve done a good job shunning yourself away from that trainwreck of a thought though. good on ya.
5/30/13 6:57 PM
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dubate
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Thacommish - 
dubate - 
Thacommish -
dubate - 
Thacommish - btw thats not the same argument at all, i can justify my position based on being a nice person and a fan of the sport, your position is you are an asshole who wants to tell people like cholish that they arent worth what an assembly worker is. Not quite the same thing.
You're so cute with the name calling. Phone Post

gotta call a spade a spade, the fact you cant justify why he shouldnt make more is laughable like you are protecting some horded pile of money that isnt even yours, and labeling who doth and doth not deserve.
I have given facts as to why he shouldn't be paid more. He has a losing record in his organization against people who aren't even in the top 25 in a sport where only the top 12 or so really matter as far as ratings and PPV buys are concerned. Now I'll grant you that it's not as persuasive an argument as "being a nice guy" but it's all I've got. I have no problem with fighters who win getting paid money I just haven't heard any of them complain. Phone Post

Oh really your argument was about being top 25 in a sport? I mustve missed that with all the bullshit you were typing about assembly line workers at honda and how they make more money and are more easily replaced. Youve done a good job shunning yourself away from that trainwreck of a thought though. good on ya.

The assembly line worker analogy had nothing to do with Honda or how those workers make more money. Clearly you didn't grasp what I was saying but let me make it easier for you. Those people are essential, but non-valuable and easily replaceable workers. The same can be said for a lot of the unaired prelim card fighters. They have no inherent value to the UFC until they do. They way they establish value is by consistently winning and putting on an entertaining show, something neither of those two did.  

As for the argument about being in the top 25? Well here is that quote that you didn't see (even though you quoted it in a reply). 

I think there are a lot of fighters out there that can go 1&2 in the UFC. Or more to the point not be able to beat people ranked in the top 30. The other organizations are littered with them. 
A lot of people feel that once you make it into UFC you have "made it" and you are somehow better than other fighters just because of who signs your checks. I just don't feel that is the case anymore. They have a lot of people that aren't even ranked in the top 25. Cholish was no different then any other fighter in the WSOF or Bellator except that he had been given the opportunity to win and make a lot more money than those other guys. I guess what I'm saying is that I am waiting for a fighter who wins fights (he doesn't have to be a champion) and is legitimately unhappy with his money

5/30/13 7:02 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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Thacommish - 
dubate - 
Thacommish - btw thats not the same argument at all, i can justify my position based on being a nice person and a fan of the sport, your position is you are an asshole who wants to tell people like cholish that they arent worth what an assembly worker is. Not quite the same thing.
You're so cute with the name calling. Phone Post

gotta call a spade a spade, the fact you cant justify why he shouldnt make more is laughable like you are protecting some horded pile of money that isnt even yours, and labeling who doth and doth not deserve.

Actually, thacommish, you also can't and haven't justified why Cholish should be paid more. And you're also labelling who "doth and doth not deserve". But instead of protecting money that isn't yours, you are trying to spend money that isn't yours.
5/30/13 7:05 PM
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Thacommish
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dubate - 
Thacommish - 
dubate - 
Thacommish -
dubate - 
Thacommish - btw thats not the same argument at all, i can justify my position based on being a nice person and a fan of the sport, your position is you are an asshole who wants to tell people like cholish that they arent worth what an assembly worker is. Not quite the same thing.
You're so cute with the name calling. Phone Post

gotta call a spade a spade, the fact you cant justify why he shouldnt make more is laughable like you are protecting some horded pile of money that isnt even yours, and labeling who doth and doth not deserve.
I have given facts as to why he shouldn't be paid more. He has a losing record in his organization against people who aren't even in the top 25 in a sport where only the top 12 or so really matter as far as ratings and PPV buys are concerned. Now I'll grant you that it's not as persuasive an argument as "being a nice guy" but it's all I've got. I have no problem with fighters who win getting paid money I just haven't heard any of them complain. Phone Post

Oh really your argument was about being top 25 in a sport? I mustve missed that with all the bullshit you were typing about assembly line workers at honda and how they make more money and are more easily replaced. Youve done a good job shunning yourself away from that trainwreck of a thought though. good on ya.

The assembly line worker analogy had nothing to do with Honda or how those workers make more money. Clearly you didn't grasp what I was saying but let me make it easier for you. Those people are essential, but non-valuable and easily replaceable workers. The same can be said for a lot of the unaired prelim card fighters. They have no inherent value to the UFC until they do. They way they establish value is by consistently winning and putting on an entertaining show, something neither of those two did.  

As for the argument about being in the top 25? Well here is that quote that you didn't see (even though you quoted it in a reply). 

I think there are a lot of fighters out there that can go 1&2 in the UFC. Or more to the point not be able to beat people ranked in the top 30. The other organizations are littered with them. 
A lot of people feel that once you make it into UFC you have "made it" and you are somehow better than other fighters just because of who signs your checks. I just don't feel that is the case anymore. They have a lot of people that aren't even ranked in the top 25. Cholish was no different then any other fighter in the WSOF or Bellator except that he had been given the opportunity to win and make a lot more money than those other guys. I guess what I'm saying is that I am waiting for a fighter who wins fights (he doesn't have to be a champion) and is legitimately unhappy with his money


I replied to your post only to get you to focus on the question i had to ask you 3 times to answer regarding teh factory workers, never acknowledging the bullshit you said after the fact, as i wasnt adressing it. Hex rei is actually the one that replied to this thought though with his own question, some simple reading and comprehension my good man.
5/30/13 7:13 PM
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dubate
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I didn't answer it because it wasn't germane to the point I was making.
So you quoted it but didn't see it and I'm the one that needs to focus on simple reading and comprehension. Good to know. Phone Post
5/30/13 7:14 PM
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Thacommish
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dubate -  I didn't answer it because it wasn't germane to the point I was making.
So you quoted it but didn't see it and I'm the one that needs to focus on simple reading and comprehension. Good to know. Phone Post

Its just odd how your point came so much after the initial post i responded too... like almost as if it didnt exist before you inserted it to cover up that horrible factory worker analogy maybe?
5/30/13 7:38 PM
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dubate
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Thacommish - 
dubate -  I didn't answer it because it wasn't germane to the point I was making.
So you quoted it but didn't see it and I'm the one that needs to focus on simple reading and comprehension. Good to know. Phone Post

Its just odd how your point came so much after the initial post i responded too... like almost as if it didnt exist before you inserted it to cover up that horrible factory worker analogy maybe?

Being deliberately obtuse doesn't make the analogy invalid. The only time that it was steered off course was by your questions. Now if you're not being deliberately obtuse and you really can't understand how the situations have a paralel, I don't know how to make it any easier to understand. But keep up with the obfuscations, they are quite enjoyable.

That being said, I am interested in your reasoning as to why fighters who cannot beat the top halves in their division deserve so much more money. But don't answer my post, you don't like my analogies, reply to TheKidAintMine post (3rd above your last post). I am interested in seeing the logic.

5/30/13 8:05 PM
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Thacommish
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dubate - 
Thacommish - 
dubate -  I didn't answer it because it wasn't germane to the point I was making.
So you quoted it but didn't see it and I'm the one that needs to focus on simple reading and comprehension. Good to know. Phone Post

Its just odd how your point came so much after the initial post i responded too... like almost as if it didnt exist before you inserted it to cover up that horrible factory worker analogy maybe?

Being deliberately obtuse doesn't make the analogy invalid. The only time that it was steered off course was by your questions. Now if you're not being deliberately obtuse and you really can't understand how the situations have a paralel, I don't know how to make it any easier to understand. But keep up with the obfuscations, they are quite enjoyable.

That being said, I am interested in your reasoning as to why fighters who cannot beat the top halves in their division deserve so much more money. But don't answer my post, you don't like my analogies, reply to TheKidAintMine post (3rd above your last post). I am interested in seeing the logic.


His observation was actually correct and well worded. It was a great comparison, i think yours was more like

"I can make the same argument for you. The extra money they make doesn't help you either. Why do they deserve to get paid more than say a teacher just because they get punched in the face? The answer is because they're entertaining. The fighters like Cholish & Volkmann aren't entertaining so why do they automatically deserve more than 30k per year with the opportunity to make a whole bunch more if they're successful?"

not as eloquent, horribly worded, wrong on almost every level especially the part where you assume i said they should make more than 30k per year. Merely my asking about the wage of factory workers was to show you that in other fields the lowest most replaceable guys get paid more than in the ufc. I find that to be sad.

Thekidaintmine actually did a good job though comparing the 2 positions, minus the part where he says i didnt justify why he should be paid more, i justified it based on your horrible analogy of the lowest paid most replaceable factory workers at honda, the ones that make 35k a year and get benefits. See if you justify not paying him based on how easily replaceable he is and how little he is "worth" to you, i was merely saying these hypothetical workers you describe are even more replaceable, even less skilled, but still get compensated more. I just am not comfortable saying im happy with that.
5/30/13 8:15 PM
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Thacommish
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fact is none of us know how much ufc makes in profits every year, how inflated the salaries are for dana and co, how much extra income there is to spread around to fighters. My question is, why stand in the way of people who are looking or asking for it? why try to belittle them? call them hobbyists or replaceable parts? Why not come out with financial statements that show how its just not possible as a company to remain profitable and distribute any more money to the fighters. If the money doesnt exist so be it, but if there are profits that are growing exponentially at the same time fighters salaries are not, i question that, and i applaud anyone else who does so. I dont applaud the people who try to belittle what it is these guys do though, and claim they arent even worth what they were paid when its shit pay.
5/30/13 8:18 PM
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dubate
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Edited: 05/30/13 8:21 PM
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Fantastic job of not answering the question I asked. Well played. 

 

I am interested in your reasoning as to why fighters who cannot beat the top halves in their division deserve so much more money. Neither one of us has any idea what they are actually paid so of course it is all suppostion. My point being that just because he has a tough job doesn't automatically entitle him to more than he is worth. Currently a fighter ranked out of the top 25 isn't worth very much. 

5/30/13 8:21 PM
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Lynchman
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Thacommish - 
dubate - 
Thacommish - 
dubate -  I didn't answer it because it wasn't germane to the point I was making.
So you quoted it but didn't see it and I'm the one that needs to focus on simple reading and comprehension. Good to know. Phone Post

Its just odd how your point came so much after the initial post i responded too... like almost as if it didnt exist before you inserted it to cover up that horrible factory worker analogy maybe?

Being deliberately obtuse doesn't make the analogy invalid. The only time that it was steered off course was by your questions. Now if you're not being deliberately obtuse and you really can't understand how the situations have a paralel, I don't know how to make it any easier to understand. But keep up with the obfuscations, they are quite enjoyable.

That being said, I am interested in your reasoning as to why fighters who cannot beat the top halves in their division deserve so much more money. But don't answer my post, you don't like my analogies, reply to TheKidAintMine post (3rd above your last post). I am interested in seeing the logic.


His observation was actually correct and well worded. It was a great comparison, i think yours was more like

"I can make the same argument for you. The extra money they make doesn't help you either. Why do they deserve to get paid more than say a teacher just because they get punched in the face? The answer is because they're entertaining. The fighters like Cholish & Volkmann aren't entertaining so why do they automatically deserve more than 30k per year with the opportunity to make a whole bunch more if they're successful?"

not as eloquent, horribly worded, wrong on almost every level especially the part where you assume i said they should make more than 30k per year. Merely my asking about the wage of factory workers was to show you that in other fields the lowest most replaceable guys get paid more than in the ufc. I find that to be sad.

Thekidaintmine actually did a good job though comparing the 2 positions, minus the part where he says i didnt justify why he should be paid more, i justified it based on your horrible analogy of the lowest paid most replaceable factory workers at honda, the ones that make 35k a year and get benefits. See if you justify not paying him based on how easily replaceable he is and how little he is "worth" to you, i was merely saying these hypothetical workers you describe are even more replaceable, even less skilled, but still get compensated more. I just am not comfortable saying im happy with that.

Volkman made a lot more than 30k. 84k for 2011, 60k for 2012.

For a UFC fighter to make less than 30k in a year, he would have to have a losing record and be a new fighter.

Today, guys get 8+8. If a fighter did not get any raises, but went 2-1, he would make 40k.

Here is an example of a new fighter doing well:
John Moraga made 9+9 in his UFC debut. He won so he made 18k. His next fight was then 11+11. He also won, and now made 40k, in 2 fights, over the course of 6 months.

Simply getting to the UFC is not enough to make a living. Cholish's argument is that once you get to the UFC, you should be able to pay all the bills and feed your family based on what you make. He has every right to feel that way, but many disagree. He signed a bad contract and I do feel bad for him. But most guys get more than he did and a portion of his argument is based on his own poor pay, part of which was based on his poor performances.
5/30/13 8:33 PM
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Lynchman
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Thacommish - fact is none of us know how much ufc makes in profits every year, how inflated the salaries are for dana and co, how much extra income there is to spread around to fighters. My question is, why stand in the way of people who are looking or asking for it? why try to belittle them? call them hobbyists or replaceable parts? Why not come out with financial statements that show how its just not possible as a company to remain profitable and distribute any more money to the fighters. If the money doesnt exist so be it, but if there are profits that are growing exponentially at the same time fighters salaries are not, i question that, and i applaud anyone else who does so. I dont applaud the people who try to belittle what it is these guys do though, and claim they arent even worth what they were paid when its shit pay.

I have to disagree with the statement that fighter pay is not going up.

We have gotten glimpses into the deals of the more recent high profile signings, all of them include PPV money. The bottom side is now starting at 8k and 9k, while it was only a few years ago that it was 4+4.

UFC 160 had 24 fighters. Of them, 2 had a disclosed pay of less than 10k. 5 were 10-20k. 6 were 20-30k. 4 were 40-60k. 8 made over 60k in disclosed pay. If you were to compare that to a few years ago, the breakdown would be totally different.
5/30/13 8:36 PM
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dubate
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Lynchman - 
Thacommish - 
dubate - 
Thacommish - 
dubate -  I didn't answer it because it wasn't germane to the point I was making.
So you quoted it but didn't see it and I'm the one that needs to focus on simple reading and comprehension. Good to know. Phone Post

Its just odd how your point came so much after the initial post i responded too... like almost as if it didnt exist before you inserted it to cover up that horrible factory worker analogy maybe?

Being deliberately obtuse doesn't make the analogy invalid. The only time that it was steered off course was by your questions. Now if you're not being deliberately obtuse and you really can't understand how the situations have a paralel, I don't know how to make it any easier to understand. But keep up with the obfuscations, they are quite enjoyable.

That being said, I am interested in your reasoning as to why fighters who cannot beat the top halves in their division deserve so much more money. But don't answer my post, you don't like my analogies, reply to TheKidAintMine post (3rd above your last post). I am interested in seeing the logic.


His observation was actually correct and well worded. It was a great comparison, i think yours was more like

"I can make the same argument for you. The extra money they make doesn't help you either. Why do they deserve to get paid more than say a teacher just because they get punched in the face? The answer is because they're entertaining. The fighters like Cholish & Volkmann aren't entertaining so why do they automatically deserve more than 30k per year with the opportunity to make a whole bunch more if they're successful?"

not as eloquent, horribly worded, wrong on almost every level especially the part where you assume i said they should make more than 30k per year. Merely my asking about the wage of factory workers was to show you that in other fields the lowest most replaceable guys get paid more than in the ufc. I find that to be sad.

Thekidaintmine actually did a good job though comparing the 2 positions, minus the part where he says i didnt justify why he should be paid more, i justified it based on your horrible analogy of the lowest paid most replaceable factory workers at honda, the ones that make 35k a year and get benefits. See if you justify not paying him based on how easily replaceable he is and how little he is "worth" to you, i was merely saying these hypothetical workers you describe are even more replaceable, even less skilled, but still get compensated more. I just am not comfortable saying im happy with that.

Volkman made a lot more than 30k. 84k for 2011, 60k for 2012.

For a UFC fighter to make less than 30k in a year, he would have to have a losing record and be a new fighter.

Today, guys get 8+8. If a fighter did not get any raises, but went 2-1, he would make 40k.

Here is an example of a new fighter doing well:
John Moraga made 9+9 in his UFC debut. He won so he made 18k. His next fight was then 11+11. He also won, and now made 40k, in 2 fights, over the course of 6 months.

Simply getting to the UFC is not enough to make a living. Cholish's argument is that once you get to the UFC, you should be able to pay all the bills and feed your family based on what you make. He has every right to feel that way, but many disagree. He signed a bad contract and I do feel bad for him. But most guys get more than he did and a portion of his argument is based on his own poor pay, part of which was based on his poor performances.

John Moraga is an excellent example. In six months of fighting he has made 40k not counting locker room bonuses and sponsorships.  He fights just 1 more time this year and wins, he is making over 60k. Im not sure how you can't train full time off of 40 thousand let alone 60 per year. The UFC is one of the few places where you can work and are in complete control of your destiny. Train, beat the man in front of you, profit. 

I think what it boils down to is this

"Cholish's argument is that once you get to the UFC, you should be able to pay all the bills and feed your family based on what you make."

It isn't in the UFC's best interest to support the fighters in that way. Mainly because some fighters aren't good enough to make it at the highest level. The UFC signs people based on how they look against the people they fight a lot of times those opponents aren't very good.

Cholish thinks that initial contract is proof of you having made it, I disagree. I think your first couple of fights are a tryout. Once you win 2 or 3 fights and show that you belong, the money is there for you to train full time.

5/30/13 8:38 PM
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Thacommish
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Lynchman - 
Thacommish - fact is none of us know how much ufc makes in profits every year, how inflated the salaries are for dana and co, how much extra income there is to spread around to fighters. My question is, why stand in the way of people who are looking or asking for it? why try to belittle them? call them hobbyists or replaceable parts? Why not come out with financial statements that show how its just not possible as a company to remain profitable and distribute any more money to the fighters. If the money doesnt exist so be it, but if there are profits that are growing exponentially at the same time fighters salaries are not, i question that, and i applaud anyone else who does so. I dont applaud the people who try to belittle what it is these guys do though, and claim they arent even worth what they were paid when its shit pay.

I have to disagree with the statement that fighter pay is not going up.

We have gotten glimpses into the deals of the more recent high profile signings, all of them include PPV money. The bottom side is now starting at 8k and 9k, while it was only a few years ago that it was 4+4.

UFC 160 had 24 fighters. Of them, 2 had a disclosed pay of less than 10k. 5 were 10-20k. 6 were 20-30k. 4 were 40-60k. 8 made over 60k in disclosed pay. If you were to compare that to a few years ago, the breakdown would be totally different.

how can the bottom side be at 8k or 9k when cholish just got 4k/4k?
5/30/13 8:44 PM
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dubate
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Edited: 05/30/13 8:46 PM
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Lynchman - 
Thacommish - fact is none of us know how much ufc makes in profits every year, how inflated the salaries are for dana and co, how much extra income there is to spread around to fighters. My question is, why stand in the way of people who are looking or asking for it? why try to belittle them? call them hobbyists or replaceable parts? Why not come out with financial statements that show how its just not possible as a company to remain profitable and distribute any more money to the fighters. If the money doesnt exist so be it, but if there are profits that are growing exponentially at the same time fighters salaries are not, i question that, and i applaud anyone else who does so. I dont applaud the people who try to belittle what it is these guys do though, and claim they arent even worth what they were paid when its shit pay.

I have to disagree with the statement that fighter pay is not going up.

We have gotten glimpses into the deals of the more recent high profile signings, all of them include PPV money. The bottom side is now starting at 8k and 9k, while it was only a few years ago that it was 4+4.

UFC 160 had 24 fighters. Of them, 2 had a disclosed pay of less than 10k. 5 were 10-20k. 6 were 20-30k. 4 were 40-60k. 8 made over 60k in disclosed pay. If you were to compare that to a few years ago, the breakdown would be totally different.

 

These were the payouts to UFC 118

Total was $1.42 Million and that is with Toney's bloated payday

 

4 under 10

3 were 10-20

5 were 20-31ish

2 were 45-60

6 were over 60

  • James Toney - $500,000
  • Randy Couture - $250,000
  • Frank Edgar - $96,000, including $48,000 win bonus
  • B.J. Penn - $150,000
  • Demian Maia - $68,000, including $34,000 win bonus
  • Kenny Florian - $65,000
  • Gray Maynard - $46,000, including $23,000 win bonus
  • Nate Diaz - $60,000, including $30,000 win bonus
  • Marcus Davis - $31,000
  • Joe Lauzon: $24,000, including $12,000 win bonus
  • Dan Miller - $30,000, including $15,000 win bonus
  • Mike Pierce - $24,000, including $12,000 win bonus
  • Nik Lentz - $22,000, including $11,000 win bonus
  • Greg Soto - $12,000, including $6,000 win bonus
  • Andre Winner - $10,000
  • Nick Osipczak - $10,000
  • Gabe Ruediger - $8,000
  • John Salter - $8,000
  • Mario Miranda - $8,000
  • Amilcar Alves - $6,000
  •  
5/30/13 9:15 PM
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RicGillespie
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Thacommish - 
Lynchman - 
Thacommish - fact is none of us know how much ufc makes in profits every year, how inflated the salaries are for dana and co, how much extra income there is to spread around to fighters. My question is, why stand in the way of people who are looking or asking for it? why try to belittle them? call them hobbyists or replaceable parts? Why not come out with financial statements that show how its just not possible as a company to remain profitable and distribute any more money to the fighters. If the money doesnt exist so be it, but if there are profits that are growing exponentially at the same time fighters salaries are not, i question that, and i applaud anyone else who does so. I dont applaud the people who try to belittle what it is these guys do though, and claim they arent even worth what they were paid when its shit pay.

I have to disagree with the statement that fighter pay is not going up.

We have gotten glimpses into the deals of the more recent high profile signings, all of them include PPV money. The bottom side is now starting at 8k and 9k, while it was only a few years ago that it was 4+4.

UFC 160 had 24 fighters. Of them, 2 had a disclosed pay of less than 10k. 5 were 10-20k. 6 were 20-30k. 4 were 40-60k. 8 made over 60k in disclosed pay. If you were to compare that to a few years ago, the breakdown would be totally different.

how can the bottom side be at 8k or 9k when cholish just got 4k/4k?

It was 4/4 because it was a carry over contract from Strikeforce. Dude signed the contract in a different organization and is complaining about the pay. Has nobody to blame but himself and/or manager if he thinks he is not getting what he feels is adequate compensation.

Fact of the matter is that he was a part time fighter and it reflected in his pay and success in the sport.
5/30/13 9:32 PM
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Lynchman
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Thacommish - 
Lynchman - 
Thacommish - fact is none of us know how much ufc makes in profits every year, how inflated the salaries are for dana and co, how much extra income there is to spread around to fighters. My question is, why stand in the way of people who are looking or asking for it? why try to belittle them? call them hobbyists or replaceable parts? Why not come out with financial statements that show how its just not possible as a company to remain profitable and distribute any more money to the fighters. If the money doesnt exist so be it, but if there are profits that are growing exponentially at the same time fighters salaries are not, i question that, and i applaud anyone else who does so. I dont applaud the people who try to belittle what it is these guys do though, and claim they arent even worth what they were paid when its shit pay.

I have to disagree with the statement that fighter pay is not going up.

We have gotten glimpses into the deals of the more recent high profile signings, all of them include PPV money. The bottom side is now starting at 8k and 9k, while it was only a few years ago that it was 4+4.

UFC 160 had 24 fighters. Of them, 2 had a disclosed pay of less than 10k. 5 were 10-20k. 6 were 20-30k. 4 were 40-60k. 8 made over 60k in disclosed pay. If you were to compare that to a few years ago, the breakdown would be totally different.

how can the bottom side be at 8k or 9k when cholish just got 4k/4k?

Take a look at recent starting pay, last PPV saw the bottom pay at 8k. If you look at the fighter pay for 2013...for events that saw the pay released, the lowest was for UFC 157 in which a fighter, still on his SF contract, made 6,600. Cholish signed his deal a while back.
5/30/13 10:01 PM
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CindyO
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Macedawgg - 
dubate - 
Macedawgg -

Financials that the sports teams release for various purposes. . .many claim losing money. 

Baseball recently had an "audit" of sorts--the one that claimed 2/3rd's lost money. . .

Yeah deadspin.com showed that those financials were bullshit. Then they went and published the actual ones that showed how profitable even the last place teams really were. Phone Post

Yup.


So you're referring to financials that you know are bullshit as your example???

 

Cindy

5/30/13 10:06 PM
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CindyO
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Jei -  The economic knowledge of the UG is hilarious. Phone Post

This thread isn't about economics it's about morals. You can operate a business and still do it in a moral manner and compensate your employees fairly. Tons of companies choose to do this. The UFC refuses to, so it is up to fighters to bargain collectively to get what they deserve.
How much should the 74th ranked lightweight with a 1-2 record in the UFC be paid per fight? Phone Post

Not a dayum thing- he shoud be cut, IMO. LOL@ fighters thinking a shot in the UFC represents Easy St. from that point forward like they've "made it" or something! It's much harder to stay on the roster than it is to make it.

 

Cindy

5/30/13 10:14 PM
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CindyO
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Jesus Quintana - 
Jei -  The economic knowledge of the UG is hilarious. Phone Post

This thread isn't about economics it's about morals. You can operate a business and still do it in a moral manner and compensate your employees fairly. Tons of companies choose to do this. The UFC refuses to, so it is up to fighters to bargain collectively to get what they deserve.

Hey guys, this fellow is on to something! That's not fair! They should go elsewhere and get paid what they're worth! Which fighters are we talking about, where should they go and how much will they be paid by the other promotion?

 

Cindy

5/30/13 11:18 PM
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Jesus Quintana
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CindyO - 
Jesus Quintana - 
Jei -  The economic knowledge of the UG is hilarious. Phone Post

This thread isn't about economics it's about morals. You can operate a business and still do it in a moral manner and compensate your employees fairly. Tons of companies choose to do this. The UFC refuses to, so it is up to fighters to bargain collectively to get what they deserve.

Hey guys, this fellow is on to something! That's not fair! They should go elsewhere and get paid what they're worth! Which fighters are we talking about, where should they go and how much will they be paid by the other promotion?

 

Cindy


GSP should fight Anderson Silva on PPV in a fight promoted by Golden Boy and should be paid a % of the gross.

Cindy
5/30/13 11:20 PM
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CindyO
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HexRei - 
dubate - 
Thacommish -
dubate - 
Thacommish -
dubate - 
epwar -
MMALOGIC - "I don't know the exact numbers, but it's pretty obscene when you look at the revenue that the UFC is taking in, compared to the portion that they're giving back to the fighters. Last I checked, the fans are buying the PPV to see the guys inside the cage, not the owners sitting outside of it." John Cholish

You see this is where he becomes a retard. Besides his mother, who's paying to watch John Cholish? do you think zuffa sells 6k dollars worth of tickets and ppv buys because john cholish is on the card?

The reality is zuffa is losing money short term by paying a guy like cholish 6k because zuffa isnt selling anywhere close to 6k dollars worth of tickets or ppv buys because john cholish is on the card.

This why the country is going down. We have spawned a bunch of retards who think they are entitled to stuff... just because.

Cholish's last fight aired live on the prelims on Fuel.  That in itself brings ad revenue.

Not when you are an interchangeable part. When I work on the factory line building Honda's, only in the broadest sense am I bringing revenue to the company.
To put it another way, if you swapped him out with a different fighter from the roster would anyone outside of his immediate circle have complained? Phone Post

What exactly do the interchangeable parts at honda make per year? Also would you say the skill required to do that is less than what is required to make it to the ufc, even if you go 1-2?
As a worker you are the interchangeable part. Meaning that the job gets done regardless if it is you or someone else doing the work. Now you want them to be paid based on their skill? Does that mean a BJJ black belt should get paid more for his first fight then an average striker or a run of the mill D1 wrestler? Phone Post

How much do they make though? do you really think its as easy to find an assembly line worker as it is a professional fighter to compete in the ufc?
I think there are a lot of fighters out there that can go 1&2 in the UFC. Or more to the point not be able to beat people ranked in the top 30. The other organizations are littered with them.
A lot of people feel that once you make it into UFC you have "made it" and you are somehow better than other fighters just because of who signs your checks. I just don't feel that is the case anymore. They have a lot of people that aren't even ranked in the top 25. Cholish was no different then any other fighter in the WSOF or Bellator except that he had been given the opportunity to win and make a lot more money than those other guys. I guess what I'm saying is that I am waiting for a fighter who wins fights (he doesn't have to be a champion) and is legitimately unhappy with his money. Phone Post

I'd like to point out that of course they have fighters who aren't in the top 25. If they had a policy of not retaining any fighters not in the top 25 they could only have 25 fighters in each division at any one time, lol.

VTFU!!!

 

Cindy

5/30/13 11:28 PM
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CindyO
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Jesus Quintana - 
CindyO - 
Jesus Quintana - 
Jei -  The economic knowledge of the UG is hilarious. Phone Post

This thread isn't about economics it's about morals. You can operate a business and still do it in a moral manner and compensate your employees fairly. Tons of companies choose to do this. The UFC refuses to, so it is up to fighters to bargain collectively to get what they deserve.

Hey guys, this fellow is on to something! That's not fair! They should go elsewhere and get paid what they're worth! Which fighters are we talking about, where should they go and how much will they be paid by the other promotion?

 

Cindy


GSP should fight Anderson Silva on PPV in a fight promoted by Golden Boy and should be paid a % of the gross.

Cindy

GB promotes MMA fights? Focus please.

 

Cindy


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