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6/1/13 7:24 AM
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hendofanforlife
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So the least anyone made last UFC ppv was 8k. 15 fighters made 24k or more just on the declared payout! Of course I want to see this continue but the pay is increasing substantially due to economics in action. Wsof and bellator are paying enough to raise the UFC minimums.
6/1/13 11:53 AM
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Rickmassmma
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My ex used to complain constantly about what teachers were paid. Both her parents were teachers, and she was starting a teaching career also. She would complain about how much school costs and the degree you need in order to teach, and how it was BS they were paid so little. Every time it came up, my response was the same...if you're parents were teachers, you obviously have some idea what teachers were paid. If you weren't satisfied with that, and didn't think it was worth it to spend a long time in college to earn the degree needed to teach WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DECIDE TO BE A TEACHER?

Same applies here, kids. All this talk about training being expensive...yeah, it is. Getting punched in the face sucks, I agree. MMA fighters have short careers, true..most do. SO PURSUE A DIFFERENT FUCKING CAREER IF YOU'RE UNHAPPY WITH THE PAY OFF.

The fact that these guys get punched in the face for a living was their choice. They weren't forced into it. Many truly love being MMA fighters, the same way many teachers love being teachers.

What the UFC makes is completely irrelevant. If you want to make what the owners of the company make, start your own fucking company and build it up over the course of many, many years. Guys like Cholish weren't putting in 60 hour weeks training to be a fighter when the Dana and the fertita's were building the UFC.
6/1/13 11:58 AM
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Rickmassmma
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Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.
6/1/13 12:32 PM
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epwar
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.

6/1/13 7:09 PM
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Jesus Quintana
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Rickmassmma - My ex used to complain constantly about what teachers were paid. Both her parents were teachers, and she was starting a teaching career also. She would complain about how much school costs and the degree you need in order to teach, and how it was BS they were paid so little. Every time it came up, my response was the same...if you're parents were teachers, you obviously have some idea what teachers were paid. If you weren't satisfied with that, and didn't think it was worth it to spend a long time in college to earn the degree needed to teach WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DECIDE TO BE A TEACHER?

Same applies here, kids. All this talk about training being expensive...yeah, it is. Getting punched in the face sucks, I agree. MMA fighters have short careers, true..most do. SO PURSUE A DIFFERENT FUCKING CAREER IF YOU'RE UNHAPPY WITH THE PAY OFF.

The fact that these guys get punched in the face for a living was their choice. They weren't forced into it. Many truly love being MMA fighters, the same way many teachers love being teachers.

What the UFC makes is completely irrelevant. If you want to make what the owners of the company make, start your own fucking company and build it up over the course of many, many years. Guys like Cholish weren't putting in 60 hour weeks training to be a fighter when the Dana and the fertita's were building the UFC.

The difference is teachers can always leave and teach for another school if they aren't happy with what they are paid. The most valuable UFC fighters are locked into contracts that don't allow them to get the market value of their services. You are also leaving out the fact that teachers salaries are often set via collective bargaining and would be even lower if they were not. If fighters bargain collectively they can improve their pay just like teachers have.

Saying John Cholish should start his own company would be a valid point if you ignore the fact that the fertittas were only able to grow the UFC because they inherited billions of dollars from their Dad and at one point the UFC was further in the hole than any of the other MMA organizations that went out of business ever were. John Cholish doesn't have 100+ million dollars of family wealth to build a competitor to the UFC.
6/1/13 10:44 PM
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Macedawgg
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epwar - 
Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 

6/1/13 11:34 PM
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canuck34
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epwar -
Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.

Why should guys who fight once or twice be able to live on their wages. This becomes a full time job when you earn it. Getting a shot in the UFC is an opportunity, not a guaranty.

It is like getting a job as an analyst at a bank. Just because you work for Goldman Sacks does not mean you get rich, you are given the chance to be rich if you perform. Phone Post
6/1/13 11:46 PM
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Lynchman
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Macedawgg - 
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.
6/1/13 11:55 PM
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Macedawgg
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

Advertising for a major event runs $2 million tops.

Production costs $100k to $200k per event.

That still leaves an ENORMOUS gap between revenue and pay between the 2 sports, and that is just talking about Gate and PPV numbers.  The UFC enjoys FAR greater ancillary revenue--that boxing can only dream of.

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny--though it is put forward frequently.

6/1/13 11:58 PM
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Rickmassmma
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Macedawgg - 
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Not anti-talent at all, just hate the sense of entitlement. I hate when people in any job complain about what they make. Everyone is free to pursue the career of their choice. If you're unhappy, do something other than complain. I respect Cholish for leaving mma to pursue a career he's more satisfied with, but I think his comments about what people deserve to be paid came across as very entitled.
6/2/13 12:10 AM
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dubate
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Macedawgg -
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

Advertising for a major event runs $2 million tops.

Production costs $100k to $200k per event.

That still leaves an ENORMOUS gap between revenue and pay between the 2 sports, and that is just talking about Gate and PPV numbers.  The UFC enjoys FAR greater ancillary revenue--that boxing can only dream of.

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny--though it is put forward frequently.

If Joe Rogan makes almost 100k by himself how does production cost only 100 to 200k per event? Goldie cost money, producers, camera men, lighting techs, sound techs and a whole assortment of people who set up and tear down the event. As the promoter they have to rent the location and a whole litany of other expenses. Where is that number 100-200k coming from? Phone Post
6/2/13 3:09 AM
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CindyO
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Macedawgg - 
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

Advertising for a major event runs $2 million tops.

Production costs $100k to $200k per event.

That still leaves an ENORMOUS gap between revenue and pay between the 2 sports, and that is just talking about Gate and PPV numbers.  The UFC enjoys FAR greater ancillary revenue--that boxing can only dream of.

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny--though it is put forward frequently.


Source?

 

Cindy

6/2/13 3:13 AM
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Lynchman
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Macedawgg - 
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

Advertising for a major event runs $2 million tops.

Production costs $100k to $200k per event.

That still leaves an ENORMOUS gap between revenue and pay between the 2 sports, and that is just talking about Gate and PPV numbers.  The UFC enjoys FAR greater ancillary revenue--that boxing can only dream of.

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny--though it is put forward frequently.


So it costs 100 to 200k to transport the entire crew and equiptment and pay everyone (including Rogan, Buffer and Goldberg) and house several dozen?

Please cite your sources.

And what about the month pay of 200+ employees?
6/2/13 3:16 AM
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CindyO
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

They employ more than 200 people.

 

"Fertitta likened that comparison to apples and oranges: "What you have to understand is that our model is different. We are everything. … We're the promoter. We're the television producer. We're responsible for all the costs that go into the production, and you're talking millions and millions of dollars.

"We employ well over 500 people just to make this machine run."

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/UFCpay/ufc-fighters-say-low-pay-most-painful-hit-all

 

Cindy

6/2/13 3:16 AM
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dubate
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dubate -
Macedawgg -
Lynchman - 
Macedawgg - 
epwar - 
Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

Advertising for a major event runs $2 million tops.

Production costs $100k to $200k per event.

That still leaves an ENORMOUS gap between revenue and pay between the 2 sports, and that is just talking about Gate and PPV numbers.  The UFC enjoys FAR greater ancillary revenue--that boxing can only dream of.

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny--though it is put forward frequently.

If Joe Rogan makes almost 100k by himself how does production cost only 100 to 200k per event? Goldie cost money, producers, camera men, lighting techs, sound techs and a whole assortment of people who set up and tear down the event. As the promoter they have to rent the location and a whole litany of other expenses. Where is that number 100-200k coming from? Phone Post
I forgot Buffer, he supposedly pulls down around 75-100k per show. Phone Post
6/2/13 3:22 AM
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Lynchman
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You forgot far more than Buffer. For each event, the UFC pays dozens of on site employees, houses them and pays for the transportation of them and all equipment.
6/2/13 3:25 AM
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dubate
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Lynchman - You forgot far more than Buffer. For each event, the UFC pays dozens of on site employees, houses them and pays for the transportation of them and all equipment.
I'm just thinking that paying, transporting, and housing Rogan, Goldie, & Buffer for the weekend is somewhere north of $325k. Phone Post
6/2/13 4:12 AM
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Macedawgg
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Source? 

Speak to people who have promoted top tier events--those are the sources.  I have. 

As to "housing" 100's of people--false.  The site usually trades the "housing" for a % of gate, or buy the "gate" in advance and include food and rooms.

Equipment?  Almost always rented--locally or nearby. 

Satellite and cable feeds?  Always rented. 

You think Bruce Buffer gets paid more than Michael?  LOL.  I don't.  

6/2/13 4:14 AM
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Macedawgg
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Fair enough RickMassMMA. 

Going to take some pushing to effectuate a change though--and as Cholish said, John Barr of ESPN said, and I have said for years, the vast majority are afraid to speak out in public.  Talk to them with no cameras and no recorders--you hear the same things, all over the country.

6/2/13 4:26 AM
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Macedawgg
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Macedawgg - 
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Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

Advertising for a major event runs $2 million tops.

Production costs $100k to $200k per event.

That still leaves an ENORMOUS gap between revenue and pay between the 2 sports, and that is just talking about Gate and PPV numbers.  The UFC enjoys FAR greater ancillary revenue--that boxing can only dream of.

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny--though it is put forward frequently.


So it costs 100 to 200k to transport the entire crew and equiptment and pay everyone (including Rogan, Buffer and Goldberg) and house several dozen?

Please cite your sources.

And what about the month pay of 200+ employees?

Promoters--speak to them.  Those are my sources. 

As to 500 employees, if you assume a 60k average (which is way high), that is a $30 million annually. 

Again, with this high assumption, you are at $2.5 million a month in labor costs. . .

Still a HUGE gap to explain. . .

This argument just does not stand up to scrutiny.

6/2/13 4:59 AM
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Macedawgg
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CindyO - 
Lynchman - 
Macedawgg - 
epwar - 
Rickmassmma - Do you think the CEO of the financial company Cholish works for gets paid what Cholish does? The comment about how fans are there to see the fighters, not the owners sitting outside the cage...very true, but I would expect an educated fucking man with some financial knowledge to have more sense than that. Without the long hours and years of dedication to growing the company, there would be no event at all. The fact that he was fortunate enough to collect a pay check for doing something he enjoyed was directly related to the long days Dana and co were putting in years before Cholish even flirted with the idea of fighting professionally.

Woah, really?  

No one is arguing Cholish should be paid what Dana White or the Fertittas get paid.  The argument is simple - some fighters in this billion dollar company aren't even being paid a wage that they can live on.


Bob Arum doesn't make what Manny Pacquiao makes.

Showtime doesn't make what PBF makes. 

Nor is it even close on a per event basis. 

Why should MMA be any different.  Both are prize fighting, both are individual sports, both have promoters and talent. . . yet, MMA pays drastically inferior amounts to talent. 

I'm curious why RickMassMMA is so excitedly anti-talent and accepting of what is paid in MMA. 


Arum does not Handle all production and promotion. Nor does Arum foot the entire bill for all events. The UFC pays for everything.

Big boxing has much larger sponsors that pay fees the UFC can only dream of. If a day comes when all UFC gates are 5 mil and higher, they charge more for PPVs, have companies foot the bill for PR and production and have sponsors paying more money, guys will make far more.

The UFC, unlike anyone in boxing, employs over 200 people (not including fighters) and spends millions simply trying to build markets for the future. It is in their best interest, but much of what they make is put right back into the company.

They employ more than 200 people.

 

"Fertitta likened that comparison to apples and oranges: "What you have to understand is that our model is different. We are everything. … We're the promoter. We're the television producer. We're responsible for all the costs that go into the production, and you're talking millions and millions of dollars.

"We employ well over 500 people just to make this machine run."

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/UFCpay/ufc-fighters-say-low-pay-most-painful-hit-all

 

Cindy


Hey Cindy--

Are the athletes included in that 500 number (which would mean a staff of about 100 at the time)? 

 

6/2/13 6:43 AM
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CindyO
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Macedawgg - 

Source? 

Speak to people who have promoted top tier events--those are the sources.  I have. 

As to "housing" 100's of people--false.  The site usually trades the "housing" for a % of gate, or buy the "gate" in advance and include food and rooms.

Equipment?  Almost always rented--locally or nearby. 

Satellite and cable feeds?  Always rented. 

You think Bruce Buffer gets paid more than Michael?  LOL.  I don't.  


Source? 

Speak to people who have promoted top tier events--those are the sources.  I have.

 

Well who are they and what did they tell you? You would expect no less from moi:)

 

Cindy

6/2/13 10:09 AM
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Rickmassmma
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Macedawgg - 

Fair enough RickMassMMA. 

Going to take some pushing to effectuate a change though--and as Cholish said, John Barr of ESPN said, and I have said for years, the vast majority are afraid to speak out in public.  Talk to them with no cameras and no recorders--you hear the same things, all over the country.


There's a better way to do it than what Cholish did. I read his quotes and instead of coming across like an educated man that was making valid points in hopes of actually getting fighter pay increased, he came across like a bitter former employee who was bitching just to throw up a big fuck you to his former employer...that, and his numbers were inaccurate.
6/2/13 11:00 AM
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HexRei
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Rickmassmma - 
Macedawgg - 

Fair enough RickMassMMA. 

Going to take some pushing to effectuate a change though--and as Cholish said, John Barr of ESPN said, and I have said for years, the vast majority are afraid to speak out in public.  Talk to them with no cameras and no recorders--you hear the same things, all over the country.


There's a better way to do it than what Cholish did. I read his quotes and instead of coming across like an educated man that was making valid points in hopes of actually getting fighter pay increased, he came across like a bitter former employee who was bitching just to throw up a big fuck you to his former employer...that, and his numbers were inaccurate.

Actually he came across as pretty educated. There's no way to approach this topic without riling the shills.
6/2/13 11:07 AM
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whoabro
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I produce live video content for a living.

Noooooooo fuckin way you are going to produce a UFC for anywhere near 100-200k, i would guess its somewhere at least 10x that.

Point being, whoever threw out that number doesnt know what theyre talking about so take their opinions with a big grain of salt. Phone Post 3.0

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