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UnderGround Forums >> John Cholish blasts UFC fighter pay


5/19/13 6:48 PM
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caseharts
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BTT-RyannVonDoom -
slamming -
caseharts - I will be happy when a Union comes about. 4000 is a tad low imo. Minimum should be 25 k pet fight. Phone Post
25k to show as a bare minimum? That's never going to happen. Something like 8k to show is much more realistic. Phone Post 3.0
Think he meant 25k period.. Not to show. Phone Post 3.0
I mean no win bonus 25 k to fight. Only finish bonuses. They don't of the night bonuses. Make finish bonuses the only thing and it will be quite good. Phone Post
5/19/13 8:39 PM
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transamman
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I think it should be more like 4k to show, 4k to win and 20k to finish Phone Post 3.0
5/19/13 8:53 PM
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Abrtitans
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bmorela3 -
time traveling 12er -
bmorela3 - 
Abrtitans - Look at how much a pro baseball players makes in the minor leagues. Around 10 grand a year. Phone Post 3.0
so the ufc is now equal to the minor leagues in baseball? Phone Post 3.0

How does that make any sense? Clearly what he's suggesting is that Cholish is a lower tier fighter in the UFC.
a back up outfielder isn't as good as mike trout. but that back up is making the league minimum which is A LOT Phone Post 3.0
Maybe his direct back up. But the guy they call up to replace that back up in the majors is only making 10 grand a year. Then if he performs mediocrely he gets sent back down and signs another contract for 10 grand a year. Phone Post 3.0
5/19/13 9:11 PM
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Mr Bungle
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Jack Brown -  Dana and the Fertitas took the financial risk and are now reaping the financial reward. That's as it should be given our economic system.
However, Cholish is in an excellent position to speak about this matter. He is a financial expert, no longer beholden to the UFC. What he says, we all should have already known.
You can not compare these fighters and other professional athletes to most other occupations. Their efforts and likenesses generate significant revenue. They have and will get a larger proportion of said revenue over time, but it will likely be a process that many of us on the outside will not be privy to and may misunderstand.
Nevertheless, we should appreciate that Cholish used his unique position to speak his truth and support his fellow fighters.
Nothing but respect for the quality of the UFC's product, and, above all, the quality of their fighters. Phone Post

Probably the most reasonable, thoughtful, and most well spoken comment I've ever read on these forums.  Shows you have a keen understanding of the way this train is heading.  Things will get better over time for the fighters. 

The UFC as we know it is less than 15 years old.  That means that in less than the time it took for Baseball, Football, and Basketball to catch on, UFC has reached that point rather quickly.  I would expect that once UFC settles into this FOX deal that is just under one year old, and over the next ten years, UFC will begin to shell out a more equitable share of the profit.  What's makes for a fair share is debatable. The turn over rate for most fighters is rather high, so some John Cholish type fighter might come around and make slightly more than what he does now, something commensurate enough to no longer have to worry about these smaller worries that fighters of his caliber complain about.  It's not until you reach mid card level talent that you will start to see a much improved bump in fighter pay.  And as for main card/headliners or Super Star type fighters, I expect many many more millionaires over the next ten years.  IF that doesn't happen, then I think it's appropriate to criticize and pepper the UFC with unending stream of questions on why exactly that isn't happening.  One things for sure, Fighter pay, as history has shown us, will continue to go up.  How much is what remains to be seen.

5/19/13 9:24 PM
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CindyO
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BTT-RyannVonDoom - 
JetSetter - When you start at a firm on Wall St you start in the mail room making 25k per year while your boss is making $50 million per year.
People act like the UFC is so out of line with the rest of society but its all relative.

The reality in life is Be the best and get the best pay or change professions Phone Post 3.0

When you make it to the UFC, you've proven to be the best according to them. They state they have all the best fighters.. and yet the monicker of U FIGHT CHEAP is stated by many behind the scenes. 


No Ryann, it doesn't mean they have made it and have proven themselves to be the best. It means they have gotten Zuffa's attention and have earned the ability to compete in the big show. How well they do in their first few fights determines how good they are and if they'll continue having a spot on that stage.

Making it to the UFC doesn't mean job security because keeping your spot can be much harder than getting your foot in the door. But performing well and leaving it all in the cage can lead to HUGE paychecks and bonuses, you know that.

 

Cindy

5/19/13 9:28 PM
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CindyO
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meth wizard -  Regardless of his record, when you're fighting in the top org you should make a lot more than 4k. Phone Post

If their manager/agent is doing their job, absolutely a fighter should make more than $4k via purse, win bonuses and sponsorships.

 

Cindy

5/19/13 9:39 PM
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funwithbakedgoods
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Brian McLaughlin - I help train a fighter who has 17 pro fights he is one of the top ranked non-UFC fighters. His last local fight he took home around 8K - I really think if he gets signed to the UFC he will be taking a major pay cut - sad

That might be true but if he does well he will make a shit ton more money than fighting at local fights. At least with the UFC he will have a chance to move to some serious coin. Worth the risk if you want to make a career out of fighting.
5/19/13 10:24 PM
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youarewhatiswrong
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Excellent idea, repeal the win bonus system. Offer better "show" payment, no win bonus and a healthy "finish" bonus. The reward for winning is the win itself, the opportunity to fight again and advance in the rankings. Winning will result in more power in contract negotiations and future paydays. Finishing will result in getting paid NOW.
5/19/13 10:36 PM
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Thacommish
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explodin - Does anyone think the UFC is making money off of fighters like Cholish? Do you think Cholish is generating a bunch of revenue that they aren't sharing... I know 4 and 4 seems like a joke, but the UFC definitely doesn't profit off him. Phone Post 3.0

Either they are making money off of him, or they are making a shit ton of money off other fighters, either way they are making money off of fighters and it is accounting for the majority of their profits, which judging by danas nice things, they have plenty of
5/19/13 10:43 PM
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rbl
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explodin - Does anyone think the UFC is making money off of fighters like Cholish? Do you think Cholish is generating a bunch of revenue that they aren't sharing... I know 4 and 4 seems like a joke, but the UFC definitely doesn't profit off him. Phone Post 3.0
A big part of the UFC brand is the undercard. How many boring main events have been saved by the guys on the undercard and prelims having a war? They can hope for a bonus but that's a pretty unreliable and subjective way to pay the bills.

Also it would work in the UFC and fans favour to have fighters who can afford proper full time training and aren't working extra jobs and leaving the sport for financial reasons. You'd see a lot more great prospects if they had a reasonable expectation of making some kind of living without cracking the top five. Phone Post 3.0
5/19/13 11:09 PM
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Garv
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Ban April 1st, Please!
funwithbakedgoods - 
Brian McLaughlin - I help train a fighter who has 17 pro fights he is one of the top ranked non-UFC fighters. His last local fight he took home around 8K - I really think if he gets signed to the UFC he will be taking a major pay cut - sad

That might be true but if he does well he will make a shit ton more money than fighting at local fights. At least with the UFC he will have a chance to move to some serious coin. Worth the risk if you want to make a career out of fighting.

Keith Jardine worked his way up to the main event at UFC 76 and got 7k to show. 

5/19/13 11:12 PM
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Whambo
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Lobo8 - 
IGOTBELCHED - 
Lobo8 - Look up his record. He was 1-3 in the ufc. He cant expect to be getting good pay with that kind of record. Sucks but this is a tough sport and not everyone can make it.

How much does a low level nba player get? Or NFl? I don't know american sports numbers well, i know lebron who's the best gets 20 something mil, so i'd imagine the low level guys get decent pay.
In premier league football in the uk, although its the most watched sports league in the world, they get at the lowest levels around $80/70000 a week.
The fact that the ufc pay like this is disgusting. Dana may give this bullshit argument of "Look at boxing, look at boxing, they get paid shit all", to try and take the spotlight off of himself, however if thats the case when you're government is driving you're economy to hell does the President or Prime minister say "Look at Africa, look at Africa, they're driving their economy to hell".

The low level bench player argument doesn't apply to this. Bench players are still very important to teams for training practice, and substitutions. They help win games. These low level guys for the ufc aren't very important and are in a way filler for cards.But If they prove themselves and keep winning then they start to get the real perks of being a ufc fighter, recognition, pay and sponsorship. Just because you have few fight in the ufc doesn't automatically mean you deserve some perks. You have to win and be likeable by fans. You have to earn it. Look at connor mcgregor he came in with some hype and attention but was still put on the facebook prelims with low pay. He then proceeded to kick ass, immediately became a ufc fighter to watch out for, got 50k bonus. Oh and i bet he will get some awesome sponsors too. He didnt beg or cry for anything. He took what he wanted.

The lower card fights are important to the show, many fans including myself enjoy them. They also work as a development tool which helps the growth of the support. The bench players don't get paid so well because of the reasons you described, they pay so well because that's what the union fought for. If you were going true market value they'd be paid much lower than what they are presently.
5/19/13 11:16 PM
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caseharts
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youarewhatiswrong - Excellent idea, repeal the win bonus system. Offer better "show" payment, no win bonus and a healthy "finish" bonus. The reward for winning is the win itself, the opportunity to fight again and advance in the rankings. Winning will result in more power in contract negotiations and future paydays. Finishing will result in getting paid NOW.
Been saying that my man Phone Post
5/19/13 11:20 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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Whambo -
Lobo8 - 
IGOTBELCHED - 
Lobo8 - Look up his record. He was 1-3 in the ufc. He cant expect to be getting good pay with that kind of record. Sucks but this is a tough sport and not everyone can make it.

How much does a low level nba player get? Or NFl? I don't know american sports numbers well, i know lebron who's the best gets 20 something mil, so i'd imagine the low level guys get decent pay.
In premier league football in the uk, although its the most watched sports league in the world, they get at the lowest levels around $80/70000 a week.
The fact that the ufc pay like this is disgusting. Dana may give this bullshit argument of "Look at boxing, look at boxing, they get paid shit all", to try and take the spotlight off of himself, however if thats the case when you're government is driving you're economy to hell does the President or Prime minister say "Look at Africa, look at Africa, they're driving their economy to hell".

The low level bench player argument doesn't apply to this. Bench players are still very important to teams for training practice, and substitutions. They help win games. These low level guys for the ufc aren't very important and are in a way filler for cards.But If they prove themselves and keep winning then they start to get the real perks of being a ufc fighter, recognition, pay and sponsorship. Just because you have few fight in the ufc doesn't automatically mean you deserve some perks. You have to win and be likeable by fans. You have to earn it. Look at connor mcgregor he came in with some hype and attention but was still put on the facebook prelims with low pay. He then proceeded to kick ass, immediately became a ufc fighter to watch out for, got 50k bonus. Oh and i bet he will get some awesome sponsors too. He didnt beg or cry for anything. He took what he wanted.

The lower card fights are important to the show, many fans including myself enjoy them. They also work as a development tool which helps the growth of the support. The bench players don't get paid so well because of the reasons you described, they pay so well because that's what the union fought for. If you were going true market value they'd be paid much lower than what they are presently.
Correct.

The union has made it so the low guys get paid well.

Hell, a NFL PRACTICE SQUAD member aka "taxi squad" or basically a tackling dummy for the starters gets a salary of 5,700 a week as of 2012.

That's about 6 grand a week, 24K a month so, 100K a year if you factor a 4 month season.

100K if they remain on the practice squad for 4 months.

And those guys are like Rudy because they don't dress on Sundays.

NBA league MINIMUM for a player with ZERO experience is 473,604.00 for this season.

Yup.

Nearly half a million if you average 1 point a game, play 2 minutes and sit on the sidelines.

The UFC and Dana talk big league but they really want things to be kept like WWE instead of the NFL where you'd suddenly have to pay everyone more. Phone Post
5/19/13 11:21 PM
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Haulport
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Haulport - 

The problem with the UFC is that they INSIST on putting on so many cards to flood the market and stifle competition and they sign EVERYONE they can to also stifle competition so they end up with this GIGANTIC roster full of guys who are never going to make enough of an impact to warrant big pay. So you have a big company that is at the top of the industry employing a lot of guys at very low pay levels which doesn't look good but makes sense on a market level.

If the UFC only put on Super Cards this wouldn't even be a discussion...


good point if there was an equivalent of a player association like in other sports they would be able to negotiate some collective terms like minimum fight pay, not just rely on the good will of the owners who are possibly making what could be considered an unfair percentage of revenue. then the ufc might be more selective about who they put on cards but the fighters who remain on the roster would have a bigger upside which in the long term improves the product

I don't believe in the unions. There is no such things as "fair".

5/19/13 11:23 PM
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Garv
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Ban April 1st, Please!

The UFC is supposed to be the big leagues but the fact is that at entry level, the fighters are hobbyists, not people making a living.  At the smaller shows that makes sense, but when you hit the big leagues you're supposed to hit big league money.

 

5/19/13 11:23 PM
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epwar
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JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
Whambo -
Lobo8 - 
IGOTBELCHED - 
Lobo8 - Look up his record. He was 1-3 in the ufc. He cant expect to be getting good pay with that kind of record. Sucks but this is a tough sport and not everyone can make it.

How much does a low level nba player get? Or NFl? I don't know american sports numbers well, i know lebron who's the best gets 20 something mil, so i'd imagine the low level guys get decent pay.
In premier league football in the uk, although its the most watched sports league in the world, they get at the lowest levels around $80/70000 a week.
The fact that the ufc pay like this is disgusting. Dana may give this bullshit argument of "Look at boxing, look at boxing, they get paid shit all", to try and take the spotlight off of himself, however if thats the case when you're government is driving you're economy to hell does the President or Prime minister say "Look at Africa, look at Africa, they're driving their economy to hell".

The low level bench player argument doesn't apply to this. Bench players are still very important to teams for training practice, and substitutions. They help win games. These low level guys for the ufc aren't very important and are in a way filler for cards.But If they prove themselves and keep winning then they start to get the real perks of being a ufc fighter, recognition, pay and sponsorship. Just because you have few fight in the ufc doesn't automatically mean you deserve some perks. You have to win and be likeable by fans. You have to earn it. Look at connor mcgregor he came in with some hype and attention but was still put on the facebook prelims with low pay. He then proceeded to kick ass, immediately became a ufc fighter to watch out for, got 50k bonus. Oh and i bet he will get some awesome sponsors too. He didnt beg or cry for anything. He took what he wanted.

The lower card fights are important to the show, many fans including myself enjoy them. They also work as a development tool which helps the growth of the support. The bench players don't get paid so well because of the reasons you described, they pay so well because that's what the union fought for. If you were going true market value they'd be paid much lower than what they are presently.
Correct.

The union has made it so the low guys get paid well.

Hell, a NFL PRACTICE SQUAD member aka "taxi squad" or basically a tackling dummy for the starters gets a salary of 5,700 a week as of 2012.

That's about 6 grand a week, 24K a month so, 100K a year if you factor a 4 month season.

100K if they remain on the practice squad for 4 months.

And those guys are like Rudy because they don't dress on Sundays.

NBA league MINIMUM for a player with ZERO experience is 473,604.00 for this season.

Yup.

Nearly half a million if you average 1 point a game, play 2 minutes and sit on the sidelines.

The UFC and Dana talk big league but they really want things to be kept like WWE instead of the NFL where you'd suddenly have to pay everyone more. Phone Post

VTFU!

5/19/13 11:23 PM
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Haulport
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CindyO - 
BTT-RyannVonDoom - 
JetSetter - When you start at a firm on Wall St you start in the mail room making 25k per year while your boss is making $50 million per year.
People act like the UFC is so out of line with the rest of society but its all relative.

The reality in life is Be the best and get the best pay or change professions Phone Post 3.0

When you make it to the UFC, you've proven to be the best according to them. They state they have all the best fighters.. and yet the monicker of U FIGHT CHEAP is stated by many behind the scenes. 


No Ryann, it doesn't mean they have made it and have proven themselves to be the best. It means they have gotten Zuffa's attention and have earned the ability to compete in the big show. How well they do in their first few fights determines how good they are and if they'll continue having a spot on that stage.

Making it to the UFC doesn't mean job security because keeping your spot can be much harder than getting your foot in the door. But performing well and leaving it all in the cage can lead to HUGE paychecks and bonuses, you know that.

 

Cindy


How can it be the "BIG SHOW" if it has a bunch of unproven fighters on it.............................?

5/19/13 11:29 PM
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CanofPineapple
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The guy retired? lol

Get the hell out of the UFC if you don't want to be a fighter and all you want to do is whine about money. What an idiot. I'm sure people will be upset that they can't watch his "hobby" of fighting. What a huge loss for MMA.

What a delusional jerkoff. My god.
5/19/13 11:32 PM
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trobinson21
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daba - $4k per fight is not a livable wage in the u.s. It's below min. wage. And then you have to figure some of that goes to managers and training.

You basically can't be a full time fighter at that payscale which seems crazy when these guys are pro athletes under a multi billion dollar company. Phone Post 3.0
College is still an option for all these guys who chose MMA fighter as a career. America is great in that you can follow whatever dream you choose, but its not anyone else's job to pay for it. Phone Post
5/20/13 1:11 AM
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fryingarmbar
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CanofPineapple - The guy retired? lol

Get the hell out of the UFC if you don't want to be a fighter and all you want to do is whine about money. What an idiot. I'm sure people will be upset that they can't watch his "hobby" of fighting. What a huge loss for MMA.

What a delusional jerkoff. My god.
Why you mad playa?

Also, "blasts" seems like a bit of an overstatement. UG News, hire this man. Phone Post 3.0
5/20/13 1:47 AM
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Jesus Quintana
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Garv - 
funwithbakedgoods - 
Brian McLaughlin - I help train a fighter who has 17 pro fights he is one of the top ranked non-UFC fighters. His last local fight he took home around 8K - I really think if he gets signed to the UFC he will be taking a major pay cut - sad

That might be true but if he does well he will make a shit ton more money than fighting at local fights. At least with the UFC he will have a chance to move to some serious coin. Worth the risk if you want to make a career out of fighting.

Keith Jardine worked his way up to the main event at UFC 76 and got 7k to show. 


sounds like keith needs to work harder and prove himself.

-cindy
5/20/13 1:54 AM
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banging
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I wish we knew what a UFC fighter really made in total transparency; sadly the only few that would do that is Evan Tanner. I'ts not only 10 grand (generous apparently) to show right?
5/20/13 1:58 AM
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PatrickVilone
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10k a fight starting!! Whats up with this 4k bs? Its the mother fucking UFC!!!! Phone Post
5/20/13 2:08 AM
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Macedawgg
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Chris27 - 
Kick Boxe - 

The ufc is a monopoly and therefore can do whatever the fuck they want. Anyone who says they are paying their fighters as much as they could/should is ignorant


And anyone who says they are a monopoly is a fucking retard.

Bellator is on SPike and owned by Viacom

You have events like RFA, Legacy, MFC, you have orgs in UK like BAMMA, KSW, orgs like RoadFC, OneFC in Asia.

Bibi got a better offer from OneFC, Mamed makes more fighting in KSW.

There are plenty of other orgs out there with money, you dont like the UFC offer/pay go fight someone else. Anyone acting like they are the only place to fight is an idiot.


But there should be a set limit for even the lowest level fighter, 10/10. Everyone gets 10/10, even if you are just prelim filler. I think thats fair.

If they dont like that then sign somewhere else, cause there are other options.

Might want to look up what a monopoly actually is, including the court decisions that apply the Sherman and Clayton Acts. . . .

You might revise your post thereafter.


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