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UnderGround Forums >> the TRT thread to end all TRT threads


5/21/13 12:41 AM
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daba
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Dana Stern - History has shown that fighters who are on steroids, or using TRT don't necessarily have an advantage. Vitor lost fights on roids. Tim Sylvia, Chael, Hendo, Forrest, Mir, Bonner, and a number of other fighters have lost fights while on TRT or roids to fighters who weren't. I'm sure it helps in some aspects but the better fighter wins every time, steroids won't help a lesser skilled, less tough, less driven fighter beat on roids beat one who holds all those attributes without. Phone Post
Still an advantage. If they weren't cheating they probably would've performed even worse.

Using TRT doesn't guarantee you'll win but it will make you stronger, faster and allow you to train harder. That is a huge advantage and unfair advantage. Phone Post 3.0
5/21/13 12:44 AM
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WoodenPupa
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Skill and toughness are roid-independent, I would agree, but drive isn't so clear cut. I would imagine your drive to train is hormonally related (not completely determined, but at least related). If your weight training isn't paying off, for example, yet you were doing everything right, that would be disheartening.
5/21/13 12:46 AM
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daba
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Better fighter doesn't always win. What if you had two fighters if the same skill level fight. The stronger and faster guy aka TRT/PED guy will win.

Also these guys are all skilled. The difference between winning and losing is inches or milliseconds. Look at baseball. Barry Bonds was one of the most talented athletes ever but when he took PEDs he was the greatest hitter un baseball. Phone Post 3.0
5/21/13 12:46 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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WoodenPupa - Skill and toughness are roid-independent, I would agree, but drive isn't so clear cut. I would imagine your drive to train is hormonally related (not completely determined, but at least related). If your weight training isn't paying off, for example, yet you were doing everything right, that would be disheartening.
Skill is achieved through rigorous training and sparring. How can you say it is independent of a drug that allows you to train and spar much harder? Phone Post
5/21/13 12:49 AM
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FightFanUK
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yes give me trt and i would not be a ufc champion, but i think its safe to say trt makes fighters better than they are without it, or why would they do it?.

look at how overeem did vs bigfoot, i made a bit of money on that fight knowing reem would not be up to the form he had been when on roids.

5/21/13 6:00 AM
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orcus
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus -

I don't understand what you mean.  Low T didn't help him manipulate the system whatsover and it won't help him in the future.

 

Wait so you're saying that Overeem, a guy we all know roused the fuck out of his body for several years, and now suffers from "low T" (190), is not manipulating the system by being granted permission to take MORE steroids to counter act the years of steroid abuse?

How can you spin and justify that Overeem should be allowed to have trt?
Are you so blind to the environment that creates?

Allowing someone like Overeem to take more asteroids, given what we all know is causing his now "low T" is basically saying to every young MMA prospect out there:

Go ahead and roid the fuck out of yourself now, and once your T levels get low from it don't fret....we will just give you a permission slip to roid even more to fix it.

So fucking ignorant. The UFC pretends it is all about the health and well being of the fighters, but it turns the blind eye to the obvious things it COULD be doing. Phone Post

All that coming forward with low T and a request for TRT does is keep Overeem from getting licensed in NSAC and CSAC, and make kooks like you angry.

Had he said nothing, he could have continued to roid secretly as he did before, as long as he timed his cycle better and came in under 6:1 (or 4:1) at test time. He still has to come in under that even with a TUE. The TUE seems to provide little or no benefit and plenty of disadvantages (public scrutiny and suspicion, additional testing, required documentation).

Just lmfao @ the notion that these guys won't roid if they don't get "permission". Did Overeem get a "permission sliip" for the last several years of juicing?

5/21/13 6:04 AM
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orcus
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"trt makes fighters better than they are without it, or why would they do it?."

TRT would of course make a fighter with low T feel and perform better.

However "why would they do it if it didn't" is not a good argument. Athletes do all kinds of things in the *belief* that it helps them. Look at those retarded rituals baseball pitchers go through on the mound before each pitch, or how superstitious athletes are with their routines, "lucky jockstrap", etc.

5/21/13 7:41 AM
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Coranamo
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Can we ban all the homos who reply "didn't read lol" adding absolutely nothing to the conversation and taking up four goddamn pages for no reason. And how about the flaming douche bag on page two who had to use up three miles worth of white space in order to spew out three shitty words. Fuck, this site has some gay ass members.
5/21/13 9:11 AM
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DeuceDroppin
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Lol at Orcus raining on this loser's parade! I love to see, or be a part of these UG ignorant, self proclaimed TRT experts getting owned so bad. Idiots like this should be banned as they know just enough for the UG sheep to think they have a clue, then perpetuate the bullshit that they spew. Fucking unreal!

And hey OP...what's your source for the .0000001% of the population crap? Oh that's right, it was another thread on here, with an idiot like yourself spewing bullshit that was disproven. Dumb ass. Phone Post
5/21/13 9:20 AM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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DeuceDroppin - Lol at Orcus raining on this loser's parade! I love to see, or be a part of these UG ignorant, self proclaimed TRT experts getting owned so bad. Idiots like this should be banned as they know just enough for the UG sheep to think they have a clue, then perpetuate the bullshit that they spew. Fucking unreal!

And hey OP...what's your source for the .0000001% of the population crap? Oh that's right, it was another thread on here, with an idiot like yourself spewing bullshit that was disproven. Dumb ass. Phone Post
Chill out babe. Phone Post 3.0
5/21/13 9:20 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus -
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
orcus -

I don't understand what you mean.  Low T didn't help him manipulate the system whatsover and it won't help him in the future.

 

Wait so you're saying that Overeem, a guy we all know roused the fuck out of his body for several years, and now suffers from "low T" (190), is not manipulating the system by being granted permission to take MORE steroids to counter act the years of steroid abuse?

How can you spin and justify that Overeem should be allowed to have trt?
Are you so blind to the environment that creates?

Allowing someone like Overeem to take more asteroids, given what we all know is causing his now "low T" is basically saying to every young MMA prospect out there:

Go ahead and roid the fuck out of yourself now, and once your T levels get low from it don't fret....we will just give you a permission slip to roid even more to fix it.

So fucking ignorant. The UFC pretends it is all about the health and well being of the fighters, but it turns the blind eye to the obvious things it COULD be doing. Phone Post

All that coming forward with low T and a request for TRT does is keep Overeem from getting licensed in NSAC and CSAC, and make kooks like you angry.

Had he said nothing, he could have continued to roid secretly as he did before, as long as he timed his cycle better and came in under 6:1 (or 4:1) at test time. He still has to come in under that even with a TUE. The TUE seems to provide little or no benefit and plenty of disadvantages (public scrutiny and suspicion, additional testing, required documentation).

Just lmfao @ the notion that these guys won't roid if they don't get "permission". Did Overeem get a "permission sliip" for the last several years of juicing?

I never said they wouldn't roid without the permission slip. You're really trying to twist what I say in defense of roiders and cheaters. Funny stuff.

I said that is sends a message to the up and coming fighters not to worry if they DO roid for years....because if it causes low T the commissions will just grant you a permission slip to roid more later in their career.

Its a very valid point, and one you will spin and twist to fit what zuffa pays you to post. Phone Post
5/21/13 9:30 AM
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Anderson's BBC in my Goku
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orcus -

"trt makes fighters better than they are without it, or why would they do it?."

TRT would of course make a fighter with low T feel and perform better.

However "why would they do it if it didn't" is not a good argument. Athletes do all kinds of things in the *belief* that it helps them. Look at those retarded rituals baseball pitchers go through on the mound before each pitch, or how superstitious athletes are with their routines, "lucky jockstrap", etc.

Do the superstitions cause scrutiny and bad press and negative fan attention? Try reading everything before commenting. Phone Post 3.0
5/21/13 9:32 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus -

"trt makes fighters better than they are without it, or why would they do it?."

TRT would of course make a fighter with low T feel and perform better.

However "why would they do it if it didn't" is not a good argument. Athletes do all kinds of things in the *belief* that it helps them. Look at those retarded rituals baseball pitchers go through on the mound before each pitch, or how superstitious athletes are with their routines, "lucky jockstrap", etc.

Oh the desperation....

You seriously just tried to compare taking steroids to superstitions and rituals in other sports?

Bwahahahah!!! Phone Post
5/21/13 10:49 AM
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FightFanUK
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orcus - 

"trt makes fighters better than they are without it, or why would they do it?."

TRT would of course make a fighter with low T feel and perform better.

However "why would they do it if it didn't" is not a good argument. Athletes do all kinds of things in the *belief* that it helps them. Look at those retarded rituals baseball pitchers go through on the mound before each pitch, or how superstitious athletes are with their routines, "lucky jockstrap", etc.


just wow at this above,so what do we do orcus? make a petition for ufc to ban things like fighters wearing lucky underpants, they are cleary  getting a unfair advantage and could end someone career. LMAO

5/21/13 12:55 PM
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orcus
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"I said that is sends a message to the up and coming fighters not to worry if they DO roid for years....because if it causes low T the commissions will just grant you a permission slip to roid more later in their career."

Can you tell me why a fighter who roids is going to give a fuck about permission slips later?

Why would a roiding fighter not just continue to roid secretly? You seem hopelessly unable to answer this question or those like it in all these threads.

"Its a very valid point,"

It's not remotely a valid point.

Answer this: What advantage does getting a TUE offer a roiding fighter as opposed to roiding in secret?

"You seriously just tried to compare taking steroids to superstitions and rituals in other sports?"

No, although you are so stupid I am not surprised that's how you took it. Again: Athletes doing something in the belief that it helps them is not itself proof that it gives them an advantage.

5/21/13 1:30 PM
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sitchpack
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Does anyone have any sources in this thread? Or are we all just chatting breeze and throwing around uninformed opinions?

Im not talking media articles, or people's opinions who work in the fight business, where are the medical professionals giving us the low down on TRT use in combat sports?

 

Anyone got any sources with a shred of legitimacy?

5/21/13 2:07 PM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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orcus -

"I said that is sends a message to the up and coming fighters not to worry if they DO roid for years....because if it causes low T the commissions will just grant you a permission slip to roid more later in their career."

Can you tell me why a fighter who roids is going to give a fuck about permission slips later?

Why would a roiding fighter not just continue to roid secretly? You seem hopelessly unable to answer this question or those like it in all these threads.

"Its a very valid point,"

It's not remotely a valid point.

Answer this: What advantage does getting a TUE offer a roiding fighter as opposed to roiding in secret?

"You seriously just tried to compare taking steroids to superstitions and rituals in other sports?"

No, although you are so stupid I am not surprised that's how you took it. Again: Athletes doing something in the belief that it helps them is not itself proof that it gives them an advantage.

Hard to break down everything you say here from a phone post.

Later in their career, having a TUE under the current testing procedures makes it much less stressful to a fighter to be able to use testosterone and not have to worry about the specific tests for OTHER secret steroids.

You cannot seem to comprehend the concept of granting permission to fighters to take testosterone later in their careers, knowing that their now "NEED" for the testosterone is due to years of abuse of their bodies to gain an advantage in the past.

No need for them to worry about getting popped for all the designer steroids in the commission tests, as they can just legally use testosterone, the grandfather of all steroids.

You are totally trying to compare a steroid, that we KNOW AS A FACT aids in training and fighting, to superstitions about Jock straps. It's totally pathetic and all you have in response is to call me stupid and try and deflect from how ignorant the comparison is.

You can be coy and try and pretend that we are not certain that fucking STEROIDS actually enhance performance ....but anyone with a brain sees rout last your pathetic attempts. Phone Post
5/21/13 4:14 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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You fucked up Orcus! You gave these tards one little thing to take out of context, repeat over and over, and use it to try to discredit all of the ownage that you have dissed out on the previous pages! That's a UG/OG special right there!

You morons don't even know the difference between TRT and steroid abuse. Please clarify what you're even talking about as you have the two very confused. Phone Post
5/21/13 4:40 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 05/21/13 4:40 PM
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"Later in their career, having a TUE under the current testing procedures makes it much less stressful to a fighter to be able to use testosterone and not have to worry about the specific tests for OTHER secret steroids."

Lol! They have to go through ALL the same tests as all the other fighters do, get tested for ALL the same substances at ALL the same limits. IN ADDITION, they have to have their blood tested before and after the fight and during camp and get their ACTUAL testosterone level measured at those times. Please tell me how this is "less stressful" than just roiding in secret like most fighters do.

"You cannot seem to comprehend the concept of granting permission to fighters to take testosterone later in their careers, knowing that their now "NEED" for the testosterone is due to years of abuse of their bodies to gain an advantage in the past."

Vitor tested positive exactly once. How did you conclude he needs it now due to years of steroid abuse? Do you trust the tests or not? Neither you, nor the commissions, know what the cause of the low T is.

"No need for them to worry about getting popped for all the designer steroids in the commission tests, as they can just legally use testosterone, the grandfather of all steroids."

And yet, they CANNOT legally use it to boost their levels beyond the NORMAL range. Either a fighter abides by the rules and has normal levels of test -- i.e., no advantage -- or he cheats, in which case it would be far more effective for him to avoid the TRT TUE and just cheat by roiding to whatever extent he wants like all the other fighters.

"You are totally trying to compare a steroid, that we KNOW AS A FACT aids in training and fighting, to superstitions about Jock straps."

No, retard, that's not what I said. The comparison illustrates only that the fact that an athlete does something and believes it works is not proof of it working. You need to find actual proof.

"You can be coy and try and pretend that we are not certain that fucking STEROIDS actually enhance performance ."

Who's pretending, dumbfuck? This is the first thing I said in the exact same post you keep referring to: "TRT would of course make a fighter with low T feel and perform better."

5/21/13 4:48 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Can we get Keith Kizer on this thread? Phone Post 3.0

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