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HolyGround >> What is the Gospel?


5/21/13 4:52 PM
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Kung Fu Joe
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truthisalive -
Kung Fu Joe - 
truthisalive -
Kung Fu Joe - 
truthisalive - With all due respect 770 he was returning your "little joke" with a little joke of his own. No reason to get mad he was being witty as you where using sarcastic humor.
Look, I can't speak for 770, but I don't particularly view the spouting of derogatory anti-Semitism as being "witty." Whether he was being serious or not, Stevo was linking 770 with deicide simply on the basis of being Jewish. That's not cool. Phone Post

wow now that was not anti semitism so dont even go there. That is an old english term for stubborn...you way over step boundries by creating a reality that is even real...It was a joke calling him stubborn...that is what stiffnecked means good sir. nice try though.
This has nothing to do with the "stiff neck" remark. It was the fact that Stevo linked being Jewish with crucifying Jesus, which is an anti-Semitic remark that has been around nearly as long as Christianity. Phone Post

Show me where he does that. But Jesus was jewish...he practiced Torah and fulfilled the law, every jot and title of the law. Israel called for his cruxificion and asked for them to release Barabbas...we all put God on the cross...jew first then Gentile....all are called to be redeemed of God...Jew first then Gentile. Salvation came firt to Israel..then gentiles...


I still dont see antisemtism. You made a very serious claim but show no evidence whatsoever. In court the judge would yell at you for wasting tax payers money....
He said, "Jesus Christ, whom you've crucified," to 770, who is Jewish. Stevo did not say "whom we have all crucified by our sin" in that initial post.

That may not have been his intention, but you can see how one might easily be confused, seeing as how Christians have been accusing Jews of that very thing for 1900 years. Phone Post
5/21/13 4:55 PM
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truthisalive
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Saint Stevo - 
770mdm - I hear it's just a bunch of gossip ;-) Phone Post 3.0

LoL. No, stiff neck. The Gospel is the Good news of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whom you've crucified and also You will bow down to and confess that he's your Lord (Isaiah 45:23,Philippians 2:10). Whether you do it now or when you die (Heb. 9:27). It's your choice of course.

Any how. Paul explain the Gospel is Jesus Death, burial, and resurrection (1Corinthians 15:1-4).

Now can any one tell me how do we obey Jesus death,burial, and resurrection?

You'll probably quote this as the foundation of your baseless argument. But in reality its very true...He was speaking to him as an individual and not based on his religion or Geanology. We all cruxified Christ...all of us because he died for our sins...the sins of the world...before it was even founded.
5/21/13 4:58 PM
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truthisalive
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Saint Stevo - 
770mdm - 

Wow dude, I made a little joke & you call me a murderer?  You don't know me from adam.  It's like calling all Christians pedophiles.  Then you dismiss me as if I, myself or as a Jew, have nothing to contribute to the conversation?  Small small minded.

My choice?  I thought you guys didn't believe in free choice? 

Your a troll in disguise as someone who wants to have a conversation on an open forum ...  Uh uh oh yeah, except from them pesky Jews.  Hahaha your a douche

 


Apparently you missed Lol before I started with you. I don't understand how you got angry when you gave me a sarcastic statement with full meaning from your heart and you get mad when I returned one back. I could careless if you're a Jew or not. I don't worship you. Yes you are a stiff neck. I don't retract that statement.

My sin and your sin put Jesus on the cross. We are both murderers. Yet you spew vomit from your heart. Not toward me but toward the King that created you and put the very breath in you.

My Jewish brothers are the one who followed the Gospel. I have no idea who you are.

Again. You will bow to Jesus now or later. : ) here's a smiley face so you don't get offended. Lol

and I would quote this to further present that he infact includes himself (saint stevo) had a direct hand in the crucifixion of Christ. We all did...every last race, every last individual...all of us. So don't single out Jews and call it anti semitism....lol...he pointed directly at 770 as an individual.
5/21/13 5:03 PM
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truthisalive
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770mdm - 

I got heated because my joke was indirect but Saints was directed and associative.  I think people would be surprised at my views of Jesus.  But also saying I, or Jews in general, murdered him and that I'd have to bow to him at my passing was - I felt, on a different level. 


no 770 your was very direct...you called the Gospel of Christ...gossip...with intertwined with sarcasm...it was direct.

He returned it to you...bitter never tastes good. He didn't point to the jewish people..but infact pointed right at you as an individual. And included himself as he further elaborated on a different post.

you said the key word as you felt...and as I feel you where very disrespectful to the Saviors Good News...no sarcasm should ever be used concerning his redemptive process...its not Gossip its Wonderful news!!!! The word gossip in the modern era we live is always associated with negative conversation.



Psalm 19:14
14 May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight,Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.
5/21/13 5:08 PM
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truthisalive
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Sarcasm is always a sign of a civilization in moral decline. Its always a way to bring veiled insults with negative emphasis into a discussion without being direct in said insult...or disagreement.


James 3:5
Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.
5/21/13 5:37 PM
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MEOWticket
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Phone Post
5/21/13 6:17 PM
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Saint Stevo
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I'm rollin'. To funny
5/23/13 2:15 PM
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colubrid1
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The Gospel is the whole bible. Not just parts of it that you like for yourself. The Gospel is not about us.
5/23/13 3:39 PM
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Saint Stevo
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Scripture and verse please.

1Corinthians 15:1-4

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5/25/13 1:10 PM
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RoninBT
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I read most of the conversations on this forum but rarely comment. Occasionally something is said that I identify with, feel compelled to weigh in on or that just tickles me. The banter between 770 and Stevo made me cringe then smile as I recognized it for what it was. I have seen this scenario play out many times in my home. I have 4 kids the oldest of which likes to play the antagonist. He will make a simple statement that could be taken several ways but both he and his targeted sibling both know the intent. The younger sibling, incensed by the disrespect, lashes out in what appears to be a disproportionate response (verbal & sometimes physical). At this point the oldest can step back and say “all I said was ……” which is a trues statement but does not convey the underlying intent.
770 – what you said and the underlying tone was hurtful, disrespectful & dismissive of many of the forum members core beliefs. If I were to make a similar statement about Torah, Tanak or Talmud I doubt you would appreciate the humor.
Stevo – you had a chance to exceed your brother in maturity and handle this with class while being a witness of the testimony of Messiah but, you blew it. Instead your statement only drove the wedge deeper.
In situations like this I am reminded of how Messiah answered the question “what is the greatest commandment of the Law”. He responded by quoting Moses "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.“ I believe this is the “mystery that makes for peace” and if we could only live by these words the world would be a far better place.
I doubt either one of you will agree with my perspective but that’s ok (I am not your daddy, just one of the kids watching from the stairwell).
Side notes:
• I believe the gospel is the good news that the covenant spoken of in Jer. 31:31-34 (i.e., The Kingdom) is at hand.
• 770 – I have an idea as to your views of Jesus but would be interested in hearing them.
5/26/13 9:51 PM
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770mdm
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Stevo - I apologize for my quip.  I stayed away from even reading this thread because I felt I'd just get heated and people I don't know at all would just get me more heated.  I thought what I said was indirect enough but my mistake was expressing a snicker type joke as if we knew each other & if we did know each other I'd probably be able to see the reply that I got wasn't as malicious as I took it. 

RoninBT: Not feeling totally up to divulging all my views on Jesus but in a nutshell I view him as a righteous Jew who never was able to get the credit he deserved for being the absolute Patriot that he was.  I don't believe he was or is God.  I believe we are all sons and daughters of God and we despratey need each other under Gods teachings to realize our true potential.  I don't believe in institutionalized religion yet I attend religious synagogues.  I can participate without being obligated institutionaly or communally.  I believe we all have darkness inside us and not all of it is bad but it all can become light.  I'm still learning about a great many things including Jesus but I can't say much in the name of him.  Mostly because if I say something in his name it is not considered Jewish.  I am a Jew so it does matter.  I believe the NT writers had to navigate things the OT writers didn't have to navigate.  Namely the Roman empire.  There's a lot more but that's the jist of if. 

For some reason I really enjoy this forum.  Not completely sure why all the time but I enjoy it.  I'm not looking to make enemy's.  I feel a little arguing is healthy but not too much.  Religion is broad and I feel I have something to add to the conversation.  I don't like being cast out but my views are probably threatening to a lot of you guys.  In the end it's just a forum.  We all may never meet and therefore words are all we have.  If we like it hear then being challenging is good but I guess I have to be careful - we all do - about virtually stomping on the other guy because we all have views.  If people are going to exclusivate than I don't feel this is the place for that.  I don't like trolls or polarizers or people banding together when a legit opposing viewpoint - someone giving the people on a thread something to consider or think about is expressed.

 

5/31/13 1:15 PM
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Saint Stevo
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colubrid1 - The Gospel is the whole bible. Not just parts of it that you like for yourself. The Gospel is not about us.

1Corinthians 15:1-4



15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5/31/13 1:24 PM
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Saint Stevo
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770mdm - 

Stevo - I apologize for my quip.  I stayed away from even reading this thread because I felt I'd just get heated and people I don't know at all would just get me more heated.  I thought what I said was indirect enough but my mistake was expressing a snicker type joke as if we knew each other & if we did know each other I'd probably be able to see the reply that I got wasn't as malicious as I took it. 

RoninBT: Not feeling totally up to divulging all my views on Jesus but in a nutshell I view him as a righteous Jew who never was able to get the credit he deserved for being the absolute Patriot that he was.  I don't believe he was or is God.  I believe we are all sons and daughters of God and we despratey need each other under Gods teachings to realize our true potential.  I don't believe in institutionalized religion yet I attend religious synagogues.  I can participate without being obligated institutionaly or communally.  I believe we all have darkness inside us and not all of it is bad but it all can become light.  I'm still learning about a great many things including Jesus but I can't say much in the name of him.  Mostly because if I say something in his name it is not considered Jewish.  I am a Jew so it does matter.  I believe the NT writers had to navigate things the OT writers didn't have to navigate.  Namely the Roman empire.  There's a lot more but that's the jist of if. 

For some reason I really enjoy this forum.  Not completely sure why all the time but I enjoy it.  I'm not looking to make enemy's.  I feel a little arguing is healthy but not too much.  Religion is broad and I feel I have something to add to the conversation.  I don't like being cast out but my views are probably threatening to a lot of you guys.  In the end it's just a forum.  We all may never meet and therefore words are all we have.  If we like it hear then being challenging is good but I guess I have to be careful - we all do - about virtually stomping on the other guy because we all have views.  If people are going to exclusivate than I don't feel this is the place for that.  I don't like trolls or polarizers or people banding together when a legit opposing viewpoint - someone giving the people on a thread something to consider or think about is expressed.

 


Praise the Lord!

You know 770m. I love the fact that you believe in 1 God. As well as I. I don't believe he's split into 3 gods, persons, teams, or whatever. I respect you of that.

I knew you was being a smart butt with me. So I returned the favor back. Quote the term "breaking B_lls".

Anyhow, I apologize for any disrespect and I appreciate you. for writing to me. Believe me though. I've heard worse from fellow so called christians. God bless.
5/31/13 1:31 PM
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Saint Stevo
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RoninBT - I read most of the conversations on this forum but rarely comment. Occasionally something is said that I identify with, feel compelled to weigh in on or that just tickles me. The banter between 770 and Stevo made me cringe then smile as I recognized it for what it was. I have seen this scenario play out many times in my home. I have 4 kids the oldest of which likes to play the antagonist. He will make a simple statement that could be taken several ways but both he and his targeted sibling both know the intent. The younger sibling, incensed by the disrespect, lashes out in what appears to be a disproportionate response (verbal & sometimes physical). At this point the oldest can step back and say “all I said was ……” which is a trues statement but does not convey the underlying intent.
770 – what you said and the underlying tone was hurtful, disrespectful & dismissive of many of the forum members core beliefs. If I were to make a similar statement about Torah, Tanak or Talmud I doubt you would appreciate the humor.
Stevo – you had a chance to exceed your brother in maturity and handle this with class while being a witness of the testimony of Messiah but, you blew it. Instead your statement only drove the wedge deeper.
In situations like this I am reminded of how Messiah answered the question “what is the greatest commandment of the Law”. He responded by quoting Moses "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.“ I believe this is the “mystery that makes for peace” and if we could only live by these words the world would be a far better place.
I doubt either one of you will agree with my perspective but that’s ok (I am not your daddy, just one of the kids watching from the stairwell).
Side notes:
• I believe the gospel is the good news that the covenant spoken of in Jer. 31:31-34 (i.e., The Kingdom) is at hand.
• 770 – I have an idea as to your views of Jesus but would be interested in hearing them.

Hello Robin. Thanks for your message. I would like to explain however that I don't believe I was in the wrong. There are plenty of examples of people going against the apostles in the book of Acts. I don't recall a mediator coming between Stephen and the people that slew him when he quoted scripture to them and pointed out what they was.

I will defend myself, smart butt comments or not. I believe in contending for my beliefs (Jude 1:3). I'm sure 770m is grown and can handle himself as well as I. Thank you for your concerns.
6/3/13 2:50 PM
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reverend john
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The gospel is the most misunderstood and misinterpreted idea in the new testament. The word gospel is actually a word that is used for a political herald. Like announcing the gospel of the empire. It literally is the word used to speak of the official declarations of the pax romana. So when the word is used in the new testament it is used within a context that is confronting the empire.

And this is interesting, what Jesus proclaims as the gospel is not, "believe in me and my death and resurrection and your sins will be forgiven and you get to go to heaven when you die" Though that is true. But what Jesus calls the gospel is, "the empire of God is here, repent (turn from other empires) and accept it"

The gospel is way more than fire insurance, the gospel is the recognition of God's lordship here and now, and the walking in a life that is contrary to the empires of the world.

rev
6/3/13 3:24 PM
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770mdm
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As a Jew, I like that answer!  Thanks Rev

6/3/13 3:56 PM
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reverend john
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you are welcome. Understanding first century occupied Judea is one of the first keys to understanding the fullness of Jesus and his message. What most people don't get, is how powerfully intermingled were the ideas of faith and practice. The early church was called "the way" which says much.

rev
6/3/13 4:23 PM
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Saint Stevo
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reverend john - The gospel is the most misunderstood and misinterpreted idea in the new testament. The word gospel is actually a word that is used for a political herald. Like announcing the gospel of the empire. It literally is the word used to speak of the official declarations of the pax romana. So when the word is used in the new testament it is used within a context that is confronting the empire.

And this is interesting, what Jesus proclaims as the gospel is not, "believe in me and my death and resurrection and your sins will be forgiven and you get to go to heaven when you die" Though that is true. But what Jesus calls the gospel is, "the empire of God is here, repent (turn from other empires) and accept it"

The gospel is way more than fire insurance, the gospel is the recognition of God's lordship here and now, and the walking in a life that is contrary to the empires of the world.

rev

Hello friend,

I liked your explanation of the word Gospel. Jesus did talk about his death, burial and resurrection throughout the 4 Gopels. They was suppose to get the revelation of what he was talking about. I believe from what we see from scripture. The disciples mainly understood at the end. I would have to say that the D,B,and r was still part of the Gospel of what your explaining.

The women that came and anointed Jesus body with ointment she did it for his burial. (Matthew 26:12-13)

I do agree with your statement don't get me wrong but Paul sums up the Gospel of the bible in 1Corinth. 15:1-4.

Just like the word believe in John 3:16. Yes we believe but Jesus explained the process of believing in John 3:1-8.
The word believe for salvation is a summary.
6/3/13 4:39 PM
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reverend john
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But the word gospel, is not the word salvation. Salvation is not the gospel, the gospel is salvation and more. The gospel is discipleship, it is spiritual warfare, it is standing for the oppressed, and against the powers of the world, and it is salvation.

Paul was written before the gospels, so I take them to explain him, not the other way around.

rev
6/3/13 5:00 PM
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770mdm
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So why Jesus?  I don't disagree with his message but the idea humanity needs a human (or as you claim a himself as a human) to lead them in spiritual warefare - who needs to stand up for the oppressed and against the powers of the world and it's salvation.  None of that needed a human messanger per say.  The message could have been delivered just as powerfully.  Maybe the message was already there?  Maybe Jesus (my belief) expounded messages already taught but may have been looked over or lost.  But that doesn't elevate him to God like status? 

6/3/13 5:09 PM
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reverend john
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In your covenant how were your set free from the powers that be? By the blood of the passover lamb.

And I claim that Jesus is the Messiah, God made flesh. Are you asking why that needed to happen?

rev
6/3/13 5:56 PM
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770mdm
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It was more than that.  Much of biblical understanding deals with the ideals Shepard societies embodied against the ideals of the farmer societies.  It wasn't a magic potion of blood on the door that set the Israelites free it was the message behind the blood. 

The whole God made flesh part?  I don't belive - we are all sons & daughters of God - but it is something I'd like to hear an answer to if you're willing?

6/3/13 6:34 PM
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reverend john
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Of course there was more to it, lots of cultural stuff, but Jesus connects his non violent death at the hands of imperial power, to the action of passover.

I will have to get back to you regarding the other

rev
6/3/13 10:57 PM
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RoninBT
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reverend john - But the word gospel, is not the word salvation. Salvation is not the gospel, the gospel is salvation and more. The gospel is discipleship, it is spiritual warfare, it is standing for the oppressed, and against the powers of the world, and it is salvation.

Paul was written before the gospels, so I take them to explain him, not the other way around.

rev

Well said…
There are a lot of parts to the gospel puzzle and to pick one up and claim it to be the defining attribute does the full picture a disservice.

A wise man once told me “I don’t really know how my car works but I sure can drive it to the store”.
6/4/13 10:35 AM
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Saint Stevo
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reverend john - But the word gospel, is not the word salvation. Salvation is not the gospel, the gospel is salvation and more. The gospel is discipleship, it is spiritual warfare, it is standing for the oppressed, and against the powers of the world, and it is salvation.

Paul was written before the gospels, so I take them to explain him, not the other way around.

rev

The Gospel is salvation as according to what Paul said in 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

I'm confused when you said in the first line the gospel is not salvation and then at the last line you said it is salvation.

I'm not saying the word gospel is the word salvation but however the Gospel is what brought our salvation. I have no problem with you pointing out that it brings discipleship and other topics you said but you cannot leave out the death, burial and resurrection of the word Gospel.

It doesn't matter to me when Paul wrote the epistles. The bottom line is the Gospel happened before Paul whether he wrote first or not.

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