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UnderGround Forums >> Jacob Volkmann on mission to "expose" UFC

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5/22/13 2:04 PM
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big_slacker
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^^ Where I live 2k a month rents a 3 bedroom. Now what do we eat? ;)
5/22/13 2:07 PM
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Eisenberg
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Oh Jacob. If only he never opened his mouth he would still be employed by the UFC.
5/22/13 2:15 PM
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TuLegit
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He's making logical sense on why the lower weight fighters actually lose money to fight and dfw will tell you to shut the fuck up and look at boxing... LOL... Then post a vid of him in one of his many ferraris/lambos. Go figure. Phone Post 3.0
5/22/13 2:21 PM
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Wasa-B
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Dana and Obama are totally in on this together.
5/22/13 2:55 PM
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TartanTopTeamsBukkakeBeyatch
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dabigchet - volkmann was at 20/20 and would probably still be in the UFC if he was more of a team player.
That's my best guess. His last fight wasn't boring and he got finished. The fight before was the Roller fight and he looked like a machine in destroying Roller and tapping him. Phone Post
5/22/13 3:00 PM
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shark tank
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what i find bothersome is that Dana White drops more on the tables gambling than he pays fighters. He plays hands that far exceed what he pays most of the fighters in a year. this organization is not struggling and should compensate its fighters accordingly.
5/22/13 3:15 PM
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ironyuppie
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What Dana White does with his own money has no impact on the the pay of UFC fighters.

If he was a cheapskate do you think he would be paying the fighters more?

More importantly the Ferttitas and Dana should be making piles of money. They rescued the sport of MMA they have created an industry with money and time that they risked.

As they have succeeded the fighters make more money. I wouldn't be surprised to learn UFC fighter pay is a fixed percentage of UFC revenue (just like in the NFL or NBA).

If the sport grows, the fighters will make more and if the sport levels out or decreased in popularity they will make even less.

I do think that everyone can agree that Zuffa is the most successful business in MMA. Promotions that have paid the fighters well have a nasty habit of going out of business.
5/22/13 3:40 PM
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Timtek
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Does he expect to make over $40k a year at his new company?

Welcome to being a C-grade fighter Volkmann.
5/22/13 4:18 PM
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tbonenum1
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HexRei - 
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M477 - typical liberal whining from....a hardcore republican? if you don't like what you are paid, get a different job

John Cholish is a Wall Street broker dealing in fossil fuels, so I doubt he's a liberal or anything, but he voiced similar complaints about fighter compensation right after retiring from the UFC.

I don't know how that helps Volkmann's case, or your defense of it.

What it shows, is that a high percentage of republicans are hypocrites, whose basis for supporting or opposing policies almost solely depends upon a cost/benefit analysis for them personally at the time it's proposed.

I wasn't defending Volkmann's case there, I was pointing out that he's not the only republican to hold the view. That's it. Not sure where you're pulling all this subtext from.

I assumed you weren't just making a meaningless observation, rather there was a point behind it, like two conservatives complaining about a conservative policy makes it more apt it was indeed unfair, rather than them only caring about things when it adversely affects them personally.

My point was simple, but it was not meaningless. Sorry I didn't happen to explore the exact nuances that you did. Go have some hot cocoa and come back when you're less cranky.

So only liberals can complain about their pay without being a hypocrite?

Too many pseudo-political-intellectuals running around.
5/22/13 4:23 PM
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Chief Mac
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frig me Volkswagon literally has bored the bollocks right off me now.
5/22/13 4:23 PM
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Filo_Beto
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TuLegit - He's making logical sense on why the lower weight fighters actually lose money to fight and dfw will tell you to shut the fuck up and look at boxing... LOL... Then post a vid of him in one of his many ferraris/lambos. Go figure. Phone Post 3.0

EXACTLY!!!

Let's also not forget that Dana is well known in vegas for dropping 200k in a night of gambling. But bumping up a fighters pay 4-5k he can't do. GTFO.

The guy is flying all over the world on a private jet for freaks sake. I don't begrudge his wealth but to hear that fighters actually lose money when fighting in the ufc makes me cringe when this guy is rolling around town like a billionaire pimp.
5/22/13 4:24 PM
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Filo_Beto
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First_Time_Long_Time - From poster on another site showing that Volkman is not being honest about how much the UFC paid him.

Volkmann says he made $54,000 2 years ago. 2 years ago was 2011, he fought 3 times in the UFC during 2011, all wins.

His payouts:

UFC 125 (January 2011) $24,000 ($12,000 to show + $12,000 for win)
UFC LIVE (August 2011) $28,000 ($14,000 to show + $14,000 for win)
UFC 141 (December 2011) $32,000 ($16,000 to show + $16,000 for win)

UFC paid him at minimum $84,000 in 2011. That's assuming he received no undisclosed bonuses. At minimum he should have cleared $15,000 from sponsors for the 3 fights, if not more. That would put him at over $100K. At worst, his income from just the UFC was $84,000.

What about his fighting expenses??
5/22/13 4:25 PM
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dubate
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Animal Mother -
Frank Gallagher -
easedel - I think the sad part of all of this is the poverty line for a family of 4 being 23,000.

That is insanely freaking low.
23k is not poverty. That's almost 2k a month. People forget the difference between need and want. Phone Post
If you think 500 a week for a family of 4 isn't poverty in Murica you obviously don't have a family. Phone Post 3.0
The only thing dumber than saying making 24k a year with kids isn't below the poverty line is making 24k year and deciding to have kids. Phone Post
5/22/13 4:25 PM
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tbonenum1
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dubate - 
easedel - Cant argue against what he is saying. Most fighters make shit money when you look at the overall picture of what the UFC brings in.
Compare the average Microsoft employee to Bill Gates. He doesn't even work there anymore yet still makes billions from it. There are a lot of fighters I feel sorry for but I don't for feel sorry at all for one who has been so hyper conservative, pro-business, anti Obama and his tax hikes for the rich while trying to get tax cuts for people like Jacob. This is what America will continue to look like if you don't aggressively tax corporations. Im not saying that it is a good or bad thing but you certainly don't get to complain about it when the side you are fighting on shows you exactly how a free market works. Phone Post

I have to disagree. Just because you believe in free market capitalism doesn't mean you can't complain if you don't think you are being compensated enough at your place of employment. Of course he can complain. He would be a hypocrite if he thought the Federal government should make laws forcing the UFC to pay fighters a certain dollar value. I haven't heard him say that.
5/22/13 4:26 PM
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Filo_Beto
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ironyuppie - 
What Dana White does with his own money has no impact on the the pay of UFC fighters.

If he was a cheapskate do you think he would be paying the fighters more?

More importantly the Ferttitas and Dana should be making piles of money. They rescued the sport of MMA they have created an industry with money and time that they risked.

As they have succeeded the fighters make more money. I wouldn't be surprised to learn UFC fighter pay is a fixed percentage of UFC revenue (just like in the NFL or NBA).

If the sport grows, the fighters will make more and if the sport levels out or decreased in popularity they will make even less.

I do think that everyone can agree that Zuffa is the most successful business in MMA. Promotions that have paid the fighters well have a nasty habit of going out of business.

The point of talking about Dana whites wealth is to show the ufc is making boat loads of money.
5/22/13 4:31 PM
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dubate
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Filo_Beto -
TuLegit - He's making logical sense on why the lower weight fighters actually lose money to fight and dfw will tell you to shut the fuck up and look at boxing... LOL... Then post a vid of him in one of his many ferraris/lambos. Go figure. Phone Post 3.0

EXACTLY!!!

Let's also not forget that Dana is well known in vegas for dropping 200k in a night of gambling. But bumping up a fighters pay 4-5k he can't do. GTFO.

The guy is flying all over the world on a private jet for freaks sake. I don't begrudge his wealth but to hear that fighters actually lose money when fighting in the ufc makes me cringe when this guy is rolling around town like a billionaire pimp.
Dana is incredibly successful in his chosen field. There are plenty of fight promoters that drive 15 year old Hondas. Certain occupations when you're the best at them pay more than others. I can't think of that many jobs where the guy who works the hardest actually makes the most money. It's the way capitalism is set up. Management will always profit on the backs of it's labor force.
The irony of course is that Jacob has been a super supportive member of the Republican Party and one of their basic tenets is let the market decide what is fair without government intervention. But now he's bitching because he is on the wrong end of it. I just don't have a lot of sympathy for that. Phone Post
5/22/13 4:34 PM
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dubate
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tbonenum1 -
dubate - 
easedel - Cant argue against what he is saying. Most fighters make shit money when you look at the overall picture of what the UFC brings in.
Compare the average Microsoft employee to Bill Gates. He doesn't even work there anymore yet still makes billions from it. There are a lot of fighters I feel sorry for but I don't for feel sorry at all for one who has been so hyper conservative, pro-business, anti Obama and his tax hikes for the rich while trying to get tax cuts for people like Jacob. This is what America will continue to look like if you don't aggressively tax corporations. Im not saying that it is a good or bad thing but you certainly don't get to complain about it when the side you are fighting on shows you exactly how a free market works. Phone Post

I have to disagree. Just because you believe in free market capitalism doesn't mean you can't complain if you don't think you are being compensated enough at your place of employment. Of course he can complain. He would be a hypocrite if he thought the Federal government should make laws forcing the UFC to pay fighters a certain dollar value. I haven't heard him say that.
If you believe in the free market capitalist system then if you feel that you're not being fairly compensated you go somewhere else to make more money. If you can't find another company that pays you more, then your actual market value is that figure. He's upset because he thinks it should be more. He's wrong. Phone Post
5/22/13 4:36 PM
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HexRei
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dubate - 
tbonenum1 -
dubate - 
easedel - Cant argue against what he is saying. Most fighters make shit money when you look at the overall picture of what the UFC brings in.
Compare the average Microsoft employee to Bill Gates. He doesn't even work there anymore yet still makes billions from it. There are a lot of fighters I feel sorry for but I don't for feel sorry at all for one who has been so hyper conservative, pro-business, anti Obama and his tax hikes for the rich while trying to get tax cuts for people like Jacob. This is what America will continue to look like if you don't aggressively tax corporations. Im not saying that it is a good or bad thing but you certainly don't get to complain about it when the side you are fighting on shows you exactly how a free market works. Phone Post

I have to disagree. Just because you believe in free market capitalism doesn't mean you can't complain if you don't think you are being compensated enough at your place of employment. Of course he can complain. He would be a hypocrite if he thought the Federal government should make laws forcing the UFC to pay fighters a certain dollar value. I haven't heard him say that.
If you believe in the free market capitalist system then if you feel that you're not being fairly compensated you go somewhere else to make more money. If you can't find another company that pays you more, then your actual market value is that figure. He's upset because he thinks it should be more. He's wrong. Phone Post

Wow, so your idea of belief in free market is "shut up"?
5/22/13 4:36 PM
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HexRei
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Edited: 05/22/13 4:41 PM
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HexRei - 
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HexRei - 
M477 - typical liberal whining from....a hardcore republican? if you don't like what you are paid, get a different job

John Cholish is a Wall Street broker dealing in fossil fuels, so I doubt he's a liberal or anything, but he voiced similar complaints about fighter compensation right after retiring from the UFC.

I don't know how that helps Volkmann's case, or your defense of it.

What it shows, is that a high percentage of republicans are hypocrites, whose basis for supporting or opposing policies almost solely depends upon a cost/benefit analysis for them personally at the time it's proposed.

I wasn't defending Volkmann's case there, I was pointing out that he's not the only republican to hold the view. That's it. Not sure where you're pulling all this subtext from.

I assumed you weren't just making a meaningless observation, rather there was a point behind it, like two conservatives complaining about a conservative policy makes it more apt it was indeed unfair, rather than them only caring about things when it adversely affects them personally.

My point was simple, but it was not meaningless. Sorry I didn't happen to explore the exact nuances that you did. Go have some hot cocoa and come back when you're less cranky.

So only liberals can complain about their pay without being a hypocrite?

Too many pseudo-political-intellectuals running around.

No. That WAS my point. It's not necessarily only a "liberal" trait to comment when you think compensation is insufficient. Look at the guy I was originally replying to in the center of the nested quotes.
5/22/13 4:44 PM
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dubate
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HexRei -
dubate - 
tbonenum1 -
dubate - 
easedel - Cant argue against what he is saying. Most fighters make shit money when you look at the overall picture of what the UFC brings in.
Compare the average Microsoft employee to Bill Gates. He doesn't even work there anymore yet still makes billions from it. There are a lot of fighters I feel sorry for but I don't for feel sorry at all for one who has been so hyper conservative, pro-business, anti Obama and his tax hikes for the rich while trying to get tax cuts for people like Jacob. This is what America will continue to look like if you don't aggressively tax corporations. Im not saying that it is a good or bad thing but you certainly don't get to complain about it when the side you are fighting on shows you exactly how a free market works. Phone Post

I have to disagree. Just because you believe in free market capitalism doesn't mean you can't complain if you don't think you are being compensated enough at your place of employment. Of course he can complain. He would be a hypocrite if he thought the Federal government should make laws forcing the UFC to pay fighters a certain dollar value. I haven't heard him say that.
If you believe in the free market capitalist system then if you feel that you're not being fairly compensated you go somewhere else to make more money. If you can't find another company that pays you more, then your actual market value is that figure. He's upset because he thinks it should be more. He's wrong. Phone Post

Wow, so your idea of belief in free market is "shut up"?
You can't be a supporter of capitalism and then complain how it treats you. That is my point, only an idiot would support a system that keeps them down. It is not surprising that it ended up like this. It is how capitalism works. You either need to accept it or vote for people who want to regulate corporations into equally sharing wealth. If you don't want to do that then you just have to accept how the system might chew you up and spit you out. Phone Post
5/22/13 6:27 PM
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JimmersonzGlove
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5/22/13 6:42 PM
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Whambo
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dubate - 
HexRei -
dubate - 
tbonenum1 -
dubate - 
easedel - Cant argue against what he is saying. Most fighters make shit money when you look at the overall picture of what the UFC brings in.
Compare the average Microsoft employee to Bill Gates. He doesn't even work there anymore yet still makes billions from it. There are a lot of fighters I feel sorry for but I don't for feel sorry at all for one who has been so hyper conservative, pro-business, anti Obama and his tax hikes for the rich while trying to get tax cuts for people like Jacob. This is what America will continue to look like if you don't aggressively tax corporations. Im not saying that it is a good or bad thing but you certainly don't get to complain about it when the side you are fighting on shows you exactly how a free market works. Phone Post

I have to disagree. Just because you believe in free market capitalism doesn't mean you can't complain if you don't think you are being compensated enough at your place of employment. Of course he can complain. He would be a hypocrite if he thought the Federal government should make laws forcing the UFC to pay fighters a certain dollar value. I haven't heard him say that.
If you believe in the free market capitalist system then if you feel that you're not being fairly compensated you go somewhere else to make more money. If you can't find another company that pays you more, then your actual market value is that figure. He's upset because he thinks it should be more. He's wrong. Phone Post

Wow, so your idea of belief in free market is "shut up"?
You can't be a supporter of capitalism and then complain how it treats you. That is my point, only an idiot would support a system that keeps them down. It is not surprising that it ended up like this. It is how capitalism works. You either need to accept it or vote for people who want to regulate corporations into equally sharing wealth. If you don't want to do that then you just have to accept how the system might chew you up and spit you out. Phone Post

lol...

If everyone thought like you the big 4 sports wouldn't have unions, there wouldn't be collective barganing etc. I'm sorry, but not everyone will just sit back and accept it. People are able to invoke change through voicing their concerns/opinions. Caraway recently got the bonuses increased, if more fighters/fans complain about the pay scale it could lead to higher wages for the prelim fighters.

Furthermore, you act like it's either 100% capitalism or 100% socialism in AMerica. There are tons of examples within America of Government policies that are rooted in socialism. You presently enjoy so many benefits because people forced changes within the companies they worked for, yet you critisize someone for voicing their opinion? Unreal.
5/22/13 6:47 PM
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BUFFGEO
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Here is the problem. The fighters today all think that 'making it' to the UFC is the end and they should be taken care of at that point. This is stupid, loser mentality.

Evey UFC fighter I 'Personally' know that is doing well for himself used their time in the UFC as just another 'Tool in the box' so to speak, to help them get were they REALLY wanted.... established in business via the initial money they made for investing, with the contacts they made through the UFC, etc etc... but the UFC IS NOT the end, its just a push.

Problem with these broke fighters is they're just... excuse me for saying but... losers with no end game in mind. Volkman was never even in the top 50% of fighting, what did he think was eventually going to happen??? You have to plan for that shit homie! Especially when you have a wife and kids! Why wasnt he investing in his chiro business this whole time???? I know 3 Chiros and they ALL make a shitload more then the avg 'UFC fighters'! You need to parly the 15 min of fame you get thru the UFC for something tangible! once youre cut its to late, nothing left now but to bitch why its someone elses fault your broke

Its not the UFC, its him. I agree the UFC treats fighters like crap, but I know less experienced UFC fighters that are financially OK... and we all know ex UFC champs who are dirt broke! Who's problem is it REALLY?




[Damn I dont know where this came from, I must be tired or hungry!]
5/22/13 7:31 PM
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dubate
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Whambo -
dubate - 
HexRei -
dubate - 
tbonenum1 -
dubate - 
easedel - Cant argue against what he is saying. Most fighters make shit money when you look at the overall picture of what the UFC brings in.
Compare the average Microsoft employee to Bill Gates. He doesn't even work there anymore yet still makes billions from it. There are a lot of fighters I feel sorry for but I don't for feel sorry at all for one who has been so hyper conservative, pro-business, anti Obama and his tax hikes for the rich while trying to get tax cuts for people like Jacob. This is what America will continue to look like if you don't aggressively tax corporations. Im not saying that it is a good or bad thing but you certainly don't get to complain about it when the side you are fighting on shows you exactly how a free market works. Phone Post

I have to disagree. Just because you believe in free market capitalism doesn't mean you can't complain if you don't think you are being compensated enough at your place of employment. Of course he can complain. He would be a hypocrite if he thought the Federal government should make laws forcing the UFC to pay fighters a certain dollar value. I haven't heard him say that.
If you believe in the free market capitalist system then if you feel that you're not being fairly compensated you go somewhere else to make more money. If you can't find another company that pays you more, then your actual market value is that figure. He's upset because he thinks it should be more. He's wrong. Phone Post

Wow, so your idea of belief in free market is "shut up"?
You can't be a supporter of capitalism and then complain how it treats you. That is my point, only an idiot would support a system that keeps them down. It is not surprising that it ended up like this. It is how capitalism works. You either need to accept it or vote for people who want to regulate corporations into equally sharing wealth. If you don't want to do that then you just have to accept how the system might chew you up and spit you out. Phone Post

lol...

If everyone thought like you the big 4 sports wouldn't have unions, there wouldn't be collective barganing etc. I'm sorry, but not everyone will just sit back and accept it. People are able to invoke change through voicing their concerns/opinions. Caraway recently got the bonuses increased, if more fighters/fans complain about the pay scale it could lead to higher wages for the prelim fighters.

Furthermore, you act like it's either 100% capitalism or 100% socialism in AMerica. There are tons of examples within America of Government policies that are rooted in socialism. You presently enjoy so many benefits because people forced changes within the companies they worked for, yet you critisize someone for voicing their opinion? Unreal.
I'm criticizing an asshole who made anti-Obama anti-socialist comments but now wants to cry about how unfair our capitalist society is now that it is working against him.
I'm not in favor of capitalism nor true socialism, I believe there's a happy middle ground and that is the way I vote. I support unions up to a point and I also believe that there should be a 15 percent flat tax. I also believe it's perfectly acceptable to laugh at morons when they contradict themselves. Phone Post
5/22/13 7:37 PM
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dubate
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Also "won't sit back and accept it?" He's not fucking Norma Rae. He's not some sort of trailblazer, he's an idiot that got marginalized do to his record and lackluster fighting style and is now butthurt when he sees what is true market value is. He's not trying to make things better for people he's the jilted lover. He's trying to hurt the UFC like they hurt him. Obviously it's going to take someone pretty big from within the organization to make huge changes but in all honesty I don't think we're that far away from all the bottom guys being 10/10. Phone Post

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