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UnderGround Forums >> Volkmann: Minimum UFC pay should be 15K


5/31/13 3:51 AM
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Canooke
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Oontyex - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.
I don't see the reasoning in the 'family to support' argument.
It's not an employers duty to change a pay scale relative to the number of dependents their employee has. Its the employees personal responsibility to manage their costs relative to their income.

Maybe while a young guy is pursuing an Mma career and is still getting 5/5 on undercards it isn't the right time to have a child , and the additional costs associated.
Or, maybe if the young guy really wants to start a family, considering the insecure nature of fighter income (big difference between win / loss, impact of ranking etc) maybe continuing the career in fighting isn't in his family's best interests. Phone Post 3.0

Your logic and promotion of personal responsibility are not welcome here.
5/31/13 5:03 AM
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Oontyex
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I'd love to see fighters paid more because I enjoy watching their skills. But I appreciate the money needs to come from somewhere and, that said I think, especially on the non-name lower paid fighters, the UFC is arguably making a loss (and so could be thought of as over paying if the goal of paying for the fighters services is to make a profit).
For these guys, being on the card doesn't attract a significant amount of additional ppv buys. On the flip side, they're given the opportunity to show case their skills on the biggest stage and potentially climb the rankings to bigger pay checks and fame. Phone Post 3.0
5/31/13 5:16 AM
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OppressedAtheist
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You free-market, Ayn Rand loving punks do realize that the poverty line in the US for a single person is a little over $11,000 ? If that man has a family the poverty line is $23,000.

Shouldn't the UFC, a company that is reportedly worth a billion dollars at least pay its fighters above the poverty line?

I don't think a fighter who makes it to the UFC should have to be working a job to make ends meet while they are fighting.

I'm getting sick of this "business is the almighty god of the universe and it deserves everything it gets while everyone else is just entitled scum that would be nothing without big business" mentality. Weep for the billionaires because they have it so hard.

The UFC and the fighters are nothing without each other and I think its time the UFC started giving more to the fighters.
5/31/13 5:25 AM
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sparkuri
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JitsuGuy - Werd! Having your finances in order takes a ton of variables out of the mix for a newly signed fighter.

MMA is a fucking difficult way to earn a living, even when you're with the biggest, most popular organization in the industry.

It shouldn't be that way.

VU

5/31/13 6:16 AM
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Jack Brown
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5/31/13 6:27 AM
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MMALOGIC
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how bout he pays us to watch him fight?
5/31/13 6:41 AM
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Oontyex
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OppressedAtheist - You free-market, Ayn Rand loving punks do realize that the poverty line in the US for a single person is a little over $11,000 ? If that man has a family the poverty line is $23,000.

Shouldn't the UFC, a company that is reportedly worth a billion dollars at least pay its fighters above the poverty line?

I don't think a fighter who makes it to the UFC should have to be working a job to make ends meet while they are fighting.

I'm getting sick of this "business is the almighty god of the universe and it deserves everything it gets while everyone else is just entitled scum that would be nothing without big business" mentality. Weep for the billionaires because they have it so hard.

The UFC and the fighters are nothing without each other and I think its time the UFC started giving more to the fighters.
The lower end fighters are performing on stage for at most 15 minutes, often a handful of times a year. Their performances are filling a space that could be filled by a different similarly unknown fighter with no change to the UFC's bottom line.
How are you quantifying what that (replaceable) contribution to the UFC's income is worth?
Also why the sense of entitlement?
It's no different than a guy on stage in a bar thinking the bar owner should pay him a years worth of income for a handful of performances because he 'really dedicated himself to it' regardless of how his performance impacted drink sales at the bar Phone Post 3.0
5/31/13 7:41 AM
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Authority Figure
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5/31/13 8:31 AM
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Whambo
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Oontyex - 
OppressedAtheist - You free-market, Ayn Rand loving punks do realize that the poverty line in the US for a single person is a little over $11,000 ? If that man has a family the poverty line is $23,000.

Shouldn't the UFC, a company that is reportedly worth a billion dollars at least pay its fighters above the poverty line?

I don't think a fighter who makes it to the UFC should have to be working a job to make ends meet while they are fighting.

I'm getting sick of this "business is the almighty god of the universe and it deserves everything it gets while everyone else is just entitled scum that would be nothing without big business" mentality. Weep for the billionaires because they have it so hard.

The UFC and the fighters are nothing without each other and I think its time the UFC started giving more to the fighters.
The lower end fighters are performing on stage for at most 15 minutes, often a handful of times a year. Their performances are filling a space that could be filled by a different similarly unknown fighter with no change to the UFC's bottom line.
How are you quantifying what that (replaceable) contribution to the UFC's income is worth?
Also why the sense of entitlement?
It's no different than a guy on stage in a bar thinking the bar owner should pay him a years worth of income for a handful of performances because he 'really dedicated himself to it' regardless of how his performance impacted drink sales at the bar Phone Post 3.0

The UFC controls a massive % of the MMA market share, it certainly isn't a perfect competition environment, especially when you consider the second biggest company Bellator has decided to pass on some of the bigger stars the UFC has cut such as Fitch.

The difference between a bar and the UFC is that the UFC carries a lot of the sports health on it's shoulders. More people can continue to stay in the sport, and are more inclined to go into the sport if they can make a decent living in the prelims. The sports unions put in minimum salaries for this reason. If you want to talk music and performers there are other ways they are helped, depending upon where you live.

Boxers got taken advantage of for a long time, and still do. I guess you could say "well they signed the contract", but that doesn't make it right. UFC is a brand, and if they're fucking over fighters it will hurt their brand. If you think it's fair for a fighter to be breaking even on a show that is making millions of dollars then I don't know what to tell you.
5/31/13 12:52 PM
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Filo_Beto
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Oontyex - I'd love to see fighters paid more because I enjoy watching their skills. But I appreciate the money needs to come from somewhere and, that said I think, especially on the non-name lower paid fighters, the UFC is arguably making a loss (and so could be thought of as over paying if the goal of paying for the fighters services is to make a profit).
For these guys, being on the card doesn't attract a significant amount of additional ppv buys. On the flip side, they're given the opportunity to show case their skills on the biggest stage and potentially climb the rankings to bigger pay checks and fame. Phone Post 3.0

How many guys that play in sports you will never see play but they get compensated a league minimum.

For fk's sake there are bunch hard on's on this boards. No is asking for 6 figure contracts , the man asked for 30k and that's just above the poverty level.

What do you think he makes after taxes and training costs? Very little.

The people defending the ufc pay scale are out of their minds, This isn't 1997 anymore , the ufc has made it.

Maybe you terds would be happy if the fighters paid the ufc money to fight in their promotion.
5/31/13 1:04 PM
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cdmontgo
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^ Exactly, the money is there right now.
5/31/13 1:08 PM
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Lobo8
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Edited: 05/31/13 1:09 PM
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15k minimum and you have to sign a guy for 2 years. Volkman is insane. Ufc isnt some charity show if u cant make the cut then get a regular job. Those that want better pay just need to prove themselves by continuing to win.
5/31/13 1:18 PM
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InYoMommaCloset
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Anyone arguing against Volkmanns argument is a nimrod that has probably been spoon-fed their entire life.

Voted up, Jacob my son.

Making ends meat whilst trying to maintain a full time schedule is a horror, and at UFC level, you want to maintain full time schedule.

The UFC bumps their low tier guys no more than what would be a drop in the bucket for them, finance wise, and it makes all the difference to their lives, whilst maybe they could trim back on shelling out more millions to the millionaires.


UFC brass constantly say, "people who complain about fighter pay don't know what they're talking about".

Yeah mate, we know your top guys make a mint, but you want a sense of equality.
ANYONE fighting in your organization (undercard guys included) should at the very least, be receiving enough to GET-BY, without financial burden.

I hope his campaign makes a difference.
5/31/13 1:22 PM
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InYoMommaCloset
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time traveling 12er - They do this and everyone not worth 15k gets cut. Also guys making 20-25k may see their contracts shrink to the 15k minimum to make up for some 10k fighters getting paid more. It's all gotta come from somewhere.

You're numerical logic is not sound.

"It's got to come from somewhere".

Mate, the UFC is owned my a pair of motherfuckin' billionares.

There's plenty more where that came from.
5/31/13 1:43 PM
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cdmontgo
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Lobo8 - 15k minimum and you have to sign a guy for 2 years. Volkman is insane. Ufc isnt some charity show if u cant make the cut then get a regular job. Those that want better pay just need to prove themselves by continuing to win.

They can still cut guys.

Two years is simply stating the UFC has to offer enough fights to fulfill the contract (four fights) within two years (two fights per year) or the contract expires.

This makes it so, the UFC can't just sit on a guy that could be making money by fighting for another organization.
5/31/13 1:51 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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Oontyex - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.
I don't see the reasoning in the 'family to support' argument.
It's not an employers duty to change a pay scale relative to the number of dependents their employee has. Its the employees personal responsibility to manage their costs relative to their income.

Maybe while a young guy is pursuing an Mma career and is still getting 5/5 on undercards it isn't the right time to have a child , and the additional costs associated.
Or, maybe if the young guy really wants to start a family, considering the insecure nature of fighter income (big difference between win / loss, impact of ranking etc) maybe continuing the career in fighting isn't in his family's best interests. Phone Post 3.0

Good post. VU.
5/31/13 3:44 PM
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luctaro
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pulsar - 
3 Sided Square - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.

lol commie

Preach on brother, fighters should be happy with what they get!

Bring on the animal pits and spike traps I reckon.


The idea is not to be happy, but to go get another offer. Its not like the UFC is the only org in the world capable of paying 4k to show. Other can too. Even more than that. So go sign with them if you dont like UFc's offer. Thats capitalism.
5/31/13 7:54 PM
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Jack Brown
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5/31/13 10:02 PM
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Brian J DSouza
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50% of the PPV cost goes to the provider. So if a PPV costs $50, UFC only gets "about" $25.

With no competition, UFC can pay its fighters whatever it wants, etc. Think about it-- that's business.

5/31/13 10:35 PM
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canuck34
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Zanzoken - As a die-hard capitalist, I agree with him.

If you're going to sign somebody, make an investment. Pay them enough so they don't have to worry about bills for awhile and give them enough leeway to grow and develop within the org.

It builds human capital and will likely pay off in the long run.
You do not seem to understand this capitalism that you are a supposed die hard follower of. Phone Post
5/31/13 11:42 PM
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dubate
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KingofBJJ -
Brian J DSouza - 

50% of the PPV cost goes to the provider. So if a PPV costs $50, UFC only gets "about" $25.

With no competition, UFC can pay its fighters whatever it wants, etc. Think about it-- that's business.


Where do you get this 50% from?  My research shows that promoters get the lions share, if not all of the revenue.

Your research is wrong. The satellite & cable companies don't just give those channels away for free, they charge roughly 50% for using their system. Phone Post
5/31/13 11:50 PM
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5 o clock shadow
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Volkmann is a f*cking character. After his fight in Bellator, he said (in the ring during the interview) "If I don't get into the UFC by next year, I'm f*cking quitting!"

I think that the matchup with Beerborn is going to be REALLY interesting. Beerborn is such a slick grappler and that is where Volkmann's strength is at. It should be a fun grappling battle unless it just ends up with Volkmann grinding Beerborn on top, trying to D'arce him 100 times.

I also find it interesting that such a hardcore rightwinger is calling for a fighter's union, minimum pay, and worker protection, but I agree with him, so I won't be too critical.


fos
6/1/13 12:17 AM
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whoabro
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soreshins - As much as I genuinely dislike volkmann, I don't think making the basic pay $15k would kill the UFC. It would lose the ufc maybe 20k per fight x maybe 6 fights on average per card. Thats only 120k per card which wouldn't be the end of the ufc. I quite like this suggestion. Phone Post 3.0
They have ~20 shows a year, which would add up to $2.5 million. You sure are liberal with other people's money Phone Post 3.0
6/1/13 12:17 AM
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whoabro
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soreshins - As much as I genuinely dislike volkmann, I don't think making the basic pay $15k would kill the UFC. It would lose the ufc maybe 20k per fight x maybe 6 fights on average per card. Thats only 120k per card which wouldn't be the end of the ufc. I quite like this suggestion. Phone Post 3.0
Also, there are more like 12-14 fights on a card. So make that $5 million Phone Post 3.0
6/1/13 12:23 AM
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whoabro - 
soreshins - As much as I genuinely dislike volkmann, I don't think making the basic pay $15k would kill the UFC. It would lose the ufc maybe 20k per fight x maybe 6 fights on average per card. Thats only 120k per card which wouldn't be the end of the ufc. I quite like this suggestion. Phone Post 3.0
Also, there are more like 12-14 fights on a card. So make that $5 million Phone Post 3.0

and 100 mil a year from fox,plus sponsor $$$ and another 350 mil from ppv.that 5 mill would crush them


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