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UnderGround Forums >> Volkmann: Minimum UFC pay should be 15K


6/2/13 12:12 PM
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canuck34
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Unwariestpickle -
Pessimist_Pete - Every person in this thread is right and wrong to various degrees. It is what it is. You can take a horse to water, but if you teach a man to fish then he can eat. Phone Post 3.0

Lol pretty sure the saying goes "Catch a man a horse and he can make a fish drink"
One in the hand is worth a drinking horse off a duck's back. Phone Post
6/2/13 12:23 PM
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Pessimist_Pete
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You can look a gift horse in the mouth but fishing is better if you're thirsty. Phone Post 3.0
6/2/13 12:31 PM
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Jack Brown
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RalliArt - MMA fans are the worst sport fans of all. Fuck this place and fuck all of you I will have no part of this. Phone Post 3.0
What happened? Phone Post
6/2/13 12:40 PM
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Chomas
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Grey eagle '88 - And it should Phone Post
. Phone Post 3.0
6/2/13 12:42 PM
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Chomas
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whoabro -
soreshins - As much as I genuinely dislike volkmann, I don't think making the basic pay $15k would kill the UFC. It would lose the ufc maybe 20k per fight x maybe 6 fights on average per card. Thats only 120k per card which wouldn't be the end of the ufc. I quite like this suggestion. Phone Post 3.0
Also, there are more like 12-14 fights on a card. So make that $5 million Phone Post 3.0
Embarassing. Phone Post 3.0
6/2/13 1:01 PM
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BertR
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whoabro - "The market shouldnt decide whats fair, *I* should" Phone Post 3.0

"please be my wage slave while i use my disproportionate power to exploit you and condition the market to my advantage so i can live in luxury at your expense"
6/2/13 1:06 PM
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sewich
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OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.
And the guy making 30k a year putting in a full weeks work doesn't have a family to provide for? I'm sorry but I don't see why a non televised undercard fighter deserves 15k for a maximium 15 minutes. He's not making the company money, no ones buying a ppv or ticket(besides a few friends and family) to see him yet. Pay your dues and become a asset to the company and then get paid. Phone Post
6/2/13 1:07 PM
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BertR
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the solution is for fighters to organize so they can have the leverage of collective bargaining which will allow them to get an independent audit and use the power of their collective labour to get a bigger slice of the pie.
6/2/13 1:30 PM
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BertR
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sewich - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.
And the guy making 30k a year putting in a full weeks work doesn't have a family to provide for? I'm sorry but I don't see why a non televised undercard fighter deserves 15k for a maximium 15 minutes. He's not making the company money, no ones buying a ppv or ticket(besides a few friends and family) to see him yet. Pay your dues and become a asset to the company and then get paid. Phone Post

"And the guy making 30k a year putting in a full weeks work doesn't have a family to provide for?"

I'd tell that guy that i empathize with his plight and also if he's in a job where he's not being paid what he think he should he could either organize or find a job that he likes/pays more.

"I'm sorry but I don't see why a non televised undercard fighter deserves 15k for a maximium 15 minutes. He's not making the company money, no ones buying a ppv or ticket(besides a few friends and family) to see him yet. Pay your dues and become a asset to the company and then get paid."

The UFC isn't putting on these non-televised events for charity, so the cost of doing business should be through giving the fighters participating in being a part of their labour pool more of a living wage. This would be flushed out more if the fighters organized and were able to get a bigger slice of the pie.
6/2/13 2:09 PM
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Wally Saves
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Lobo8 - 15k minimum and you have to sign a guy for 2 years. Volkman is insane. Ufc isnt some charity show if u cant make the cut then get a regular job. Those that want better pay just need to prove themselves by continuing to win.
Makes sense. Phone Post
6/2/13 2:12 PM
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OuTkAsTTTTT69
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Can't really argue with that. These guys have expenses to pay. Phone Post
6/2/13 2:23 PM
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ScottCL
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It's in the UFCs best interest to implement a minimum pay. If people know that they can make a decent wage even if they dont become champion more people will enter or stick with the sport. More fighters in the sport = more "name" guys and high caliber fighters.
6/2/13 6:05 PM
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Canooke
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BertR - 
whoabro - "The market shouldnt decide whats fair, *I* should" Phone Post 3.0

"please be my wage slave while i use my disproportionate power to exploit you and condition the market to my advantage so i can live in luxury at your expense"

1) How many of the UFC fighters were forced to sign their contracts?

2) How many entered into their contracts freely because they thought it was to their benefit?
















*Answers: 1) None 2) All of them
6/2/13 7:35 PM
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dubate
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Canooke -
BertR - 
whoabro - "The market shouldnt decide whats fair, *I* should" Phone Post 3.0

"please be my wage slave while i use my disproportionate power to exploit you and condition the market to my advantage so i can live in luxury at your expense"

1) How many of the UFC fighters were forced to sign their contracts?

2) How many entered into their contracts freely because they thought it was to their benefit?
















*Answers: 1) None 2) All of them
The best part of your argument is that those words were basically Jacob's political stance until he was cut. He was used to be a big supporter of the free market. I wonder what changed his mind? Phone Post
6/2/13 8:52 PM
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Jacob Christmas Volkmann
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creepymcfinger - I got a bunch of vote downs for saying no one gives a fuck what he thinks, too clarify my stance I totally agree that a pro fighter making 4000 to fight in the ufc is unacceptable, I just don't think the message Is well received coming from this guy Phone Post 3.0

I stand up for what I believe in and that has not changed since I was fired. I spoke up against Obama because I was against some of the policies he implemented. I was saying UFCs healthcare was no good, and was trying to get fighters retirement before I was fired. My views have not changed. I also am not total conservative. For example, I support same sex marriage. Government needs to stay out of church matters.
6/2/13 9:02 PM
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MisterFixit
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in
teresting
6/2/13 9:09 PM
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kingjames100
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Jacob Christmas Volkmann - 
creepymcfinger - I got a bunch of vote downs for saying no one gives a fuck what he thinks, too clarify my stance I totally agree that a pro fighter making 4000 to fight in the ufc is unacceptable, I just don't think the message Is well received coming from this guy Phone Post 3.0

I stand up for what I believe in and that has not changed since I was fired. I spoke up against Obama because I was against some of the policies he implemented. I was saying UFCs healthcare was no good, and was trying to get fighters retirement before I was fired. My views have not changed. I also am not total conservative. For example, I support same sex marriage. Government needs to stay out of church matters.

Intredasting.
6/2/13 9:16 PM
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dubate
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Jacob Christmas Volkmann -
creepymcfinger - I got a bunch of vote downs for saying no one gives a fuck what he thinks, too clarify my stance I totally agree that a pro fighter making 4000 to fight in the ufc is unacceptable, I just don't think the message Is well received coming from this guy Phone Post 3.0

I stand up for what I believe in and that has not changed since I was fired. I spoke up against Obama because I was against some of the policies he implemented. I was saying UFCs healthcare was no good, and was trying to get fighters retirement before I was fired. My views have not changed. I also am not total conservative. For example, I support same sex marriage. Government needs to stay out of church matters.
Y u no green name? Phone Post
6/2/13 9:54 PM
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Jack Brown
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Jacob Christmas Volkmann -
creepymcfinger - I got a bunch of vote downs for saying no one gives a fuck what he thinks, too clarify my stance I totally agree that a pro fighter making 4000 to fight in the ufc is unacceptable, I just don't think the message Is well received coming from this guy Phone Post 3.0

I stand up for what I believe in and that has not changed since I was fired. I spoke up against Obama because I was against some of the policies he implemented. I was saying UFCs healthcare was no good, and was trying to get fighters retirement before I was fired. My views have not changed. I also am not total conservative. For example, I support same sex marriage. Government needs to stay out of church matters.
It's him. Thanks for jumping in! Phone Post
6/2/13 10:12 PM
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cdmontgo
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dubate - 
cdmontgo -
canuck34 - 
dubate -
KingofBJJ -
whoabro - 
soreshins - As much as I genuinely dislike volkmann, I don't think making the basic pay $15k would kill the UFC. It would lose the ufc maybe 20k per fight x maybe 6 fights on average per card. Thats only 120k per card which wouldn't be the end of the ufc. I quite like this suggestion. Phone Post 3.0
Also, there are more like 12-14 fights on a card. So make that $5 million Phone Post 3.0

I believe the OP is referring to the fighters making less than $15k per fight?  Regardless we all know that at least six fighters are making less than $20k per fight So lets go back to ufc 148

 

Mike Easton: $20,000 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 to win)
Ivan Menjivar: $13,000
Easton def. Menjivar via unanimous decision

Chad Mendes: $36,000 ($18,000 to show, $18,000 to win)
Cody McKenzie: $10,000
Mendes def. McKenzie via technical knockout

Habib Nurmagomedov: $20,000 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 to win)
Gleison Tibau: $31,000
Nurmagomedov def. Tibau via unanimous decision

Constantinos Philippou: $32,000 ($16,000 to show, $16,000 to win)
Riki Fukuda: $28,000
Philippou def. Fukuda via unanimous decision

Melvin Guillard: $72,000 ($36,000 to show, $36,000 to win)
Fabricio Camoes: $8,000
Guillard def. Camoes via unanimous decision

Rafaello Oliveira: $20,000 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 to win)
Yoislandy Izquierdo: $6,000
Oliveira def. Izquierdo via unanimous decision

Shane Roller: $46,000 ($23,000 to show, $23,000 to win)
John Alessio: $10,000
Roller def. Alessio via unanimous decision

As you can see, some fighters were lucky to win and get a win bonus to put them at or over the $20k threshold. The total card salary was 20% of the the largest gate in UFC history.  Had these fighters been paid a minimum of $20k instead of the meager $6k for some, the total would be a mear $56k for those who loss and $36k for those who won (remember they only made $20k or more because of the win bonus).  That totals $92k not even a drop in the bucket for Gate of  $6.5 million.  Again that doesn't include the PPV, Sponsorship, Closed Circuit TV and UFC.tv revenue Zuffa racks in.

MMA fighters are getting screwed and the fanboys here are calling them whiners.  Unbelievable.

 

If you are going to count that extra revenue you need to count the PPV bonuses that Silva, Sonen, Ortiz, & Griffin received. Not to mention the locker room bonuses that they give out. Those bonuses don't just go to the winners, Uncle Creepy said he got 25k in the mail after his last fight. Phone Post
Also, uncle creepy puts asses in the seats. He is a popular fighter and people consider his involvement when buying a PPV or watching a free card. So he deserves more. Phone Post

dubate, what extra revenue are you referring to?

The other post is analyzing the percentage of the gate that went to the fighters (as reported income). He specifically stated it doesn't account for PPV, sponorship, CCTV, and internet sales. He forgot to add the revenue the UFC gets from TV deals (FOX was HUGE), merchandise, UFC gyms, etc.

I think it is ridiculous to argue that his fighter payout numbers are too low when you account for the PPV bonuses and the locker room bonuses. If you add the PPV revenue to the gate revenue and account for PPV bonuses and locker room bonuses, the fighters end up getting an even lower percentage of the revenue (even when you cut the PPV revenue in half due to the cable company taking a cut).

This still doesn't account for sponorship revenue, CCTV, internet sales, TV deals, merchandise, gyms, etc.

It is crazy to think the money isn't there to pay the lower tier guys a livable wage..
Are you saying that if you only fight 1 time a year you should make a liveable wage? If you fight 2x a year and put on a good show (doesn't have to be great) you make over 40k easy. If you want to make more, win. If you can't win or put on a good show, then maybe fighting isn't the right career for you. Volkmann made 60k in his last year with a losing record, how is that not a liveable wage? Phone Post

No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying anything about the frequency a fighter competes. The UFC can decide that. If they don't think they are getting their money's worth having a guy fight twice a year, they can choose to have him fight three times a year, and so on. They should be making responsible decisions that allow their atheletes to earn a livable wage. There is plenty of money in this sport to do that.

No, you don't make $40k per year if you fight twice. If you are signed to a $6k/$6k deal and you fight twice in a year, you made $24k. From that, you have to pay job related expenses. You get whatever is left. That's not a livable wage.

If you are assuming they are getting $16k from locker room bonuses, you may be right or wrong. We don't have that information. I think it is a lofty assumption for a guy they signed to a 6/6 deal.
6/2/13 10:48 PM
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Lunchbox101
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OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.

The idea of "people before profit" is retarded. Without profit, there is no job. Therefore, by your logic, there should be no jobs.

I'm a free market enthusiast, and I believe fighters should be paid more. This is why I buy products that support fighters, and pay to watch fights (either at a bar or with friends). The market pays fighters what we deem they are worth. We purchase products that support them and endorse them, and we buy ppv that include them. The idea that they need to have "some minimum pay scale" is stupid. The UFC would simply put on less fights if they were forced into increasing their pay. We see this same effect in other markets. If you feel so bad for the fighters, support them yourself, or support orgs that pay them more (which would default back to the UFC).
6/2/13 10:59 PM
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Thacommish
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Lunchbox101 - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.

The idea of "people before profit" is retarded. Without profit, there is no job. Therefore, by your logic, there should be no jobs.

I'm a free market enthusiast, and I believe fighters should be paid more. This is why I buy products that support fighters, and pay to watch fights (either at a bar or with friends). The market pays fighters what we deem they are worth. We purchase products that support them and endorse them, and we buy ppv that include them. The idea that they need to have "some minimum pay scale" is stupid. The UFC would simply put on less fights if they were forced into increasing their pay. We see this same effect in other markets. If you feel so bad for the fighters, support them yourself, or support orgs that pay them more (which would default back to the UFC).

Gsp isnt paid what he is worth nor what the market is paying to watch him fight, he is paid far far less. Thats how Zuffa is profitable. They cannot be profitable while paying fighters their market worth, they have to undercut the top guys so you can throw that ideal out the window. Also No one is asking zuffa to pay fighters to the point where they are not turning a profit, i think most just question the idea that ufc cant come up with the roughly the amount of 1 OTN bonus each card to increase the lower guys pay to a much more reasonable sum. It would make a huge difference, and given the supposed number of OTN bonuses, backroom bonuses etc that they already give out, how can they not find that much to guarantee some fighters get better pay?
6/2/13 11:06 PM
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Lunchbox101
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Thacommish - 
Lunchbox101 - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.

The idea of "people before profit" is retarded. Without profit, there is no job. Therefore, by your logic, there should be no jobs.

I'm a free market enthusiast, and I believe fighters should be paid more. This is why I buy products that support fighters, and pay to watch fights (either at a bar or with friends). The market pays fighters what we deem they are worth. We purchase products that support them and endorse them, and we buy ppv that include them. The idea that they need to have "some minimum pay scale" is stupid. The UFC would simply put on less fights if they were forced into increasing their pay. We see this same effect in other markets. If you feel so bad for the fighters, support them yourself, or support orgs that pay them more (which would default back to the UFC).

Gsp isnt paid what he is worth nor what the market is paying to watch him fight, he is paid far far less. Thats how Zuffa is profitable. They cannot be profitable while paying fighters their market worth, they have to undercut the top guys so you can throw that ideal out the window. Also No one is asking zuffa to pay fighters to the point where they are not turning a profit, i think most just question the idea that ufc cant come up with the roughly the amount of 1 OTN bonus each card to increase the lower guys pay to a much more reasonable sum. It would make a huge difference, and given the supposed number of OTN bonuses, backroom bonuses etc that they already give out, how can they not find that much to guarantee some fighters get better pay?

GSP and the UFC decide how much he's worth. We decide whether or not we want to pay what the UFC charges us to watch him fight. He also receives a payment % of the amount of sales he generates. So tell me, how is he NOT getting what he's worth? The same could be said for the UFC (that they're not getting paid what they're worth). They entered into a contractual agreement with FOX, that is likely generating a ton of profit for them. Was the UFC ripped off? Does GSP feel taken advantage of? If two parties enter into a contractual agreement, unless they're forced into said agreement, both parties feel they're better off than they were prior to the arrangement (at least when signing on the dotted line).

Better pay will necessarily follow with growth, as we've seen thus far. There's no reason to remove the bottom rung from the ladder. Let people work their way up and prove their worth.
6/2/13 11:08 PM
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Thacommish
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Lunchbox101 - 
Thacommish - 
Lunchbox101 - 
OppressedAtheist - Great Idea coming from Volkmann. I would love to see a minimum pay standard in the UFC.

You Ayn Rand worshiping fucks that are opposed to this idea need to wake up and realize that these fighters deserve to make a decent living. They have themselves and their families to support.


Fuck unfettered capitalism and fuck Free Marker ideology.

People before profit. The UFC needs a fighters union.

The idea of "people before profit" is retarded. Without profit, there is no job. Therefore, by your logic, there should be no jobs.

I'm a free market enthusiast, and I believe fighters should be paid more. This is why I buy products that support fighters, and pay to watch fights (either at a bar or with friends). The market pays fighters what we deem they are worth. We purchase products that support them and endorse them, and we buy ppv that include them. The idea that they need to have "some minimum pay scale" is stupid. The UFC would simply put on less fights if they were forced into increasing their pay. We see this same effect in other markets. If you feel so bad for the fighters, support them yourself, or support orgs that pay them more (which would default back to the UFC).

Gsp isnt paid what he is worth nor what the market is paying to watch him fight, he is paid far far less. Thats how Zuffa is profitable. They cannot be profitable while paying fighters their market worth, they have to undercut the top guys so you can throw that ideal out the window. Also No one is asking zuffa to pay fighters to the point where they are not turning a profit, i think most just question the idea that ufc cant come up with the roughly the amount of 1 OTN bonus each card to increase the lower guys pay to a much more reasonable sum. It would make a huge difference, and given the supposed number of OTN bonuses, backroom bonuses etc that they already give out, how can they not find that much to guarantee some fighters get better pay?

GSP and the UFC decide how much he's worth. We decide whether or not we want to pay what the UFC charges us to watch him fight. He also receives a payment % of the amount of sales he generates. So tell me, how is he NOT getting what he's worth? The same could be said for the UFC (that they're not getting paid what they're worth). They entered into a contractual agreement with FOX, that is likely generating a ton of profit for them. Was the UFC ripped off? Does GSP feel taken advantage of? If two parties enter into a contractual agreement, unless they're forced into said agreement, both parties feel they're better off than they were prior to the arrangement (at least when signing on the dotted line).

Better pay will necessarily follow with growth, as we've seen thus far. There's no reason to remove the bottom rung from the ladder. Let people work their way up and prove their worth.

Mostly its just ufc that decides it but just look at your inconsistency here

"The market pays fighters what we deem they are worth. We purchase products that support them and endorse them, and we buy ppv that include them."

to

"GSP and the UFC decide how much he's worth."

notice the change?
6/2/13 11:11 PM
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Thacommish
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its a big deal because you used the first thing to justify why we as fans need to pay more, but if we arent being guaranteed by zuffa that they will use that money to accomodate fighters, nor do we know if fighter pay has increased proportionally with the profits, how are we to be sure that they are being fair with the money? Just take their word for it?

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