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UnderGround Forums >> This is the Thread About The History of the UG


6/8/13 2:56 AM
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CLINTK9
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Wasa-B - 
MMAHistoryProject - 
Wasa-B - "(6) Which fight had more UG hype/excitement? Ken/Tito, Tito/Chuck, Fedor/CroCop? Something else?"

Sak/Royce, Sak/Renzo as well.

Dude knows his shit VTFU


Thanks man.

Actually, Sak/Royce was and is probably still the biggest fight of all time. It was just epic on so many levels. The anticipation. The return of Royce. The no time limit thing. The earlier controversy of Sak/Royler. Sak carrying Pride. The Gracie mystique still in tact leading up to it. The still huuuge BJJ/Gracie can do no wrong mentality leading up to then. The way it was huge turning point for the game after Sak won. The images of Rorion throwing the towel, Sak shaking hands with Helio. The clowing Sak did during the fight. The so-called controversy about Sak tapping to the guillotine. The bs about Royce would have won X rounds had their been rounds in a no time limit, no judges fight (lol). Sak chopping Royce down again and again. The image of a jumping Sak over Royce's guard....

sorry, just have to post as I see a little too much Royce negs in here. how about how Royce jumped in after a 5 yr lay off and fought Saku who was beating guys like Belfort, Mezger, Goes etc. and how Royce who basically only weak TD's and a clinch, and subs he'll never catch Saku with, so basically he has no chance (heard that back then and the way noobs talk about him now), and yet somehow managed to fight Saku for an hour and a half with only a weak TD and a clinch. and somehow got beat and clowned so bad he barley had a mark on his face or how he spent spent a good half hour of the fight in a good position or doing well (no one remembers that these days).
6/8/13 6:25 AM
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random_muppett
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. Phone Post 3.0
6/8/13 6:59 AM
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Bobby Lupo
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Gannon-Kimbo was the most anticipated fight. Tito-Ken, Royce-Saku and Brock-Cain are worth mentioning. Phone Post 3.0
6/8/13 7:23 AM
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Seul
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ttt for more answers, good thread.
6/8/13 8:07 AM
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rezzz
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Sub Phone Post 3.0
6/8/13 8:15 AM
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discodrew
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Sub Phone Post
6/8/13 8:22 AM
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Joeymarvelous
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Fascinating. Phone Post
6/8/13 9:49 AM
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TheOneDylanThomas
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Great info on the Sak/Royce fight. Thanks.
6/8/13 10:14 AM
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fightsfan
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Todd Atkins

TAPELORD

MACHINE MAY


Found SHERDOG first and then found this place, either was mentioned on Sherdog forum or was listed on the Sherdog page of links to other MMA sites which included FULL CONTACT FIGHTER which was a good source for purchasing VHS Tapes of NHB events
6/8/13 10:28 AM
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GSPushedInMyStinkEye
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I don't remember the name but I saw a poster on here with a '00' join date as opposed to the usual '01' that all the old schoolers have. Someone asked them about it but no reply.

If anyone can explain that, it would be cool. 

6/8/13 10:30 AM
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TheOneDylanThomas
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fightsfan - Todd Atkins

TAPELORD

MACHINE MAY


Found SHERDOG first and then found this place, either was mentioned on Sherdog forum or was listed on the Sherdog page of links to other MMA sites which included FULL CONTACT FIGHTER which was a good source for purchasing VHS Tapes of NHB events

What's the story with Todd Atkins and TAPELORD?
6/8/13 10:47 AM
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MMAHistoryProject
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Wasa-B - 
MMAHistoryProject - 
Wasa-B - "(6) Which fight had more UG hype/excitement? Ken/Tito, Tito/Chuck, Fedor/CroCop? Something else?"

Sak/Royce, Sak/Renzo as well.

Dude knows his shit VTFU


Thanks man.

Actually, Sak/Royce was and is probably still the biggest fight of all time. It was just epic on so many levels. The anticipation. The return of Royce. The no time limit thing. The earlier controversy of Sak/Royler. Sak carrying Pride. The Gracie mystique still in tact leading up to it. The still huuuge BJJ/Gracie can do no wrong mentality leading up to then. The way it was huge turning point for the game after Sak won. The images of Rorion throwing the towel, Sak shaking hands with Helio. The clowing Sak did during the fight. The so-called controversy about Sak tapping to the guillotine. The bs about Royce would have won X rounds had their been rounds in a no time limit, no judges fight (lol). Sak chopping Royce down again and again. The image of a jumping Sak over Royce's guard....

It was truly epic.  I remember driving 2 hours to my cousin's house to watch it on his dish; his wife walks in, sees Royce butt-scooting and says "why doesn't that boy get off the ground?"  I told her his leg looked broken and her eyes got real wide.  Then she shook her head and walked away.  People forget how brave Royce that day.  15 minute round after 15 minute round getting kicked in a fractured leg and still getting off the stool for more.  Epic. Sak advancing after 90(!) minutes with Royce to take on Vov who was at his peak and a fucking DESTROYER on a 30+ fight winning streak that wouldn't be broken until later that night (Coleman).  EPIC.

One thing I will always say about Sak in that fight is that faking a tap is complete bullshit, and he should have lost the fight right there.  "Hahahaha look I pretended to tap".  Not funny.  Someday the same ref will see someone in a nasty heel-hook tapping and think "hahahaha that's a good one!  :D" No one should accept fake tapping as part of the sport, any more than they should people "pretending" to be knocked down in boxing. "I thoght it would be badass if I kept getting off the canvas like Rocky but the ref DQ'd me after the 3rd time" NO SHIT!  If you want the fight to continue to it's natural conclusion, stay the fuck off the canvas and stop trying to be funny [/rant]

 

6/8/13 10:59 AM
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MMAHistoryProject
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D241 - 

Royce is one of the most underrated fighters of all time in my opinion, when you take into account all opinions not just older ones.

But that being said, although Wasa-B paints a good picture of the mystique Royce had, he did have that loss to Wallid in pure bjj competition. For me personally, seeing Royce bow out after UFC 4 and seeing guys like Don Frye, Mark Coleman emerge after, you couldn't help but wonder if the fight game was evolving to deal with jui jitsu aces like the Gracies.

 

But after all, it was Royce who won all our hearts with what he did in early UFC's. I'm sure most wanted Royce to win, even if they didn't think he would, so seeing Sakuraba out Gracie Royce Gracie with showmanship added  in, in one single fight, a legend was created.


Also, this was the 2nd round of the GP and Royce had looked like he was "back" against Takada, and Sak had gotten schooled by Mezger.  For those who didn't see it, Guy pretty well neutralized Sak's style, and the judges declared a draw and called for an OT round.  Problem was that there were no OT rounds in the 2000 GP and Ken Shamrock stormed the ring, ordered Guy back to the locker rooms, and screamed bloody murder at the Pride officials.  Guy was disqualified for vacating the ring and Saku advanced to fight Royce.  If Guy had just fought on, Royce X Sak stood a good chance of never happening.

Sak's highlights from the match and Ken's meltdown are viewable here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4gxso_kazushi-sakuraba-vs-guy-mezger_news#.UbNGF47HbnY

 

6/8/13 11:02 AM
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ocbadapple
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I was on the UG long before my first fight
6/8/13 11:06 AM
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TheOneDylanThomas
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Damn, these Sak/Royce stories are fucking incredible. Wish I could buy you all beers for contributing. Better yet, wish I could take you all out and let you tell your stories. I'd just lean back, stfu, and listen.
6/8/13 11:07 AM
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TheOneDylanThomas
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ocbadapple - I was on the UG long before my first fight

That's really cool, man. Did being here, listening in, encourage or motivate you to fight?
6/8/13 11:10 AM
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TheOneDylanThomas
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Also, I wish someone would get Kirik in this damn thread. I'd love to hear his answers to the original questions plus some of his old stories, thoughts about the growth of the UG, etc.
6/8/13 11:17 AM
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ocbadapple
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TheOneDylanThomas - 
ocbadapple - I was on the UG long before my first fight

That's really cool, man. Did being here, listening in, encourage or motivate you to fight?

Yea for sure. I never wrestled or boxed before. All my friends were training with Marco Ruas. And I was fascinated by the sport and jumped in head first. I never dreamed I would win championship belts, or fight in WEC, Elite XC, and Strikeforce.
6/8/13 11:29 AM
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siouxNYC
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I was Mr Buns (named after my cat) on Mousels and used that same screen name when this was submissionfighting, then switched over to siouxnyc right around when this site became mma.tv.

This place was the only place where you could get live results of events that weren't broadcast anywhere. Example: when Renzo fought Sakuraba in PRIDE, and bunch of us were hovering around a thread with live updates from someone who was there. I'll never forget Kirik's response when Renzo got his arm broken - "No way. Say it ain't so."
6/8/13 11:45 AM
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Bobby Lupo
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I was more excited reading live play by play updates on the UG of pride fights than I've ever been watching fights not involving mike Tyson Phone Post 3.0
6/8/13 11:55 AM
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Kneeblock
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TheOneDylanThomas - I don't know how this thread will play but a few days ago Kirik made a post about how the Underground started in 1998 as submissionfighting.com and I thought that was interesting. So the UG experienced true style versus style fights, the genuine NHB Brazillain orgs, the ascenion of Kerr, Sak, Wand, Nog, Fedor,the birth of Pride, Zuffa's acquirement of UFC, TUF, the mainstream explosion of MMA, etc. And presumably had discussions during each example along the way.

So I am curious about what the opinions were during those times, I'm curious about how the site grew, about a lot of things.

So if any old vets want to answer some or all of the questions I have, that would be a very interesting read for me. Maybe some nostalgia for the vets too. And if others have questions, it would be cool for them to ask also.

Some questions I have:

(1) What were the thoughts about the 2000 Pride Grand Prix? Did most think Coleman would win? What did members say after Kerr locked up against Fujita?

(2) In 1998, how many members were there? How'd they find the site? Word of mouth, I guess?

(3) How'd the site become the "insider" MMA forum? In other words, the one where so many of the industry personalities came to? As opposed to Sherdog or mmaweekly?

(4) Did Kirik, Ryan Bennett, and Jeff Sherwood know each other before starting different MMA sites? Did/Do they get along?

(5) Have any UFC fighters initially started as UG members? Lauzon posted before he took up MMA, didn't he?

(6) Which fight had more UG hype/excitement? Ken/Tito, Tito/Chuck, Fedor/CroCop? Something else?

(7) What were the opinions after Wand/Sak 1?

I have more questions but I'll stop here.

1) No one thought Coleman would win. Most were betting on Kerr and were shocked at the upset, though there were several who thought Igor was a lock.

2) I found the site because Kirik used to do technique stuff, all of which was later organized into a book called The Fighters Notebook. It was very hard to find a quality technique site back then.

3) There were just as many pros on Sherdog in the beginning, but the douchebag quotient and Jeff Sherwood's own irreverence toward fighters drove many of them away. There were other forums back then too, but one of the reasons for Kirik's success imo was his connections with New England fighters and the fact that many fighters who started out grappling at NAGA saw advertising for the UG since Kipp Kollar (NAGA owner) and Kirik were buddies.

4) No idea.

5) Several. Kenflo, most notably. Many guys who were just grapplers used to come here all the time before they switched over to MMA.

6) Ken/Tito nearly broke the board. Tito/Chuck and Fedor/Cro Cop were huge, but a little overdue by the time they happened. It's easy to look back and say Ken was washed up when he fought Tito, but it was a different vibe back then. It was old school vs. new school in every way.

7) Wand was such a terminator by then that I don't recall there being much shock when he beat Sak, but I didn't have reliable internet access at the time of that fight so wasn't around the UG much when it happened.

6/8/13 12:04 PM
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TheOneDylanThomas
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Edited: 06/08/13 12:04 PM
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Was their any UG hype on Wand during his IVC days? I ask because I have a friend who is from Brazil and I asked him several years ago about MMA, when I started following it, and he really couldn't give a fig about MMA or Pride or UFC but he knew who Wanderlei was from his fights in Brazil.
6/8/13 12:22 PM
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Yaang Sam Kun
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Ive had to set new screen names cause dumbass does the cute move of always changing my email and passwords. But i can say that for at least 10 Years, anyone who brings up internet based sites, I trump them and demand they experience the UG! Phone Post
6/8/13 12:31 PM
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MMAHistoryProject
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TheOneDylanThomas - Was their any UG hype on Wand during his IVC days? I ask because I have a friend who is from Brazil and I asked him several years ago about MMA, when I started following it, and he really couldn't give a fig about MMA or Pride or UFC but he knew who Wanderlei was from his fights in Brazil.

Wand's IVC fights were covered pretty well in Grappling Magazine.  He had already fought in the UFC impressively by the time he showed up in Pride so he was definitely known, but still a minor figure.

6/8/13 3:58 PM
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Wasa-B
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MMAHistoryProject - 
Wasa-B - 
MMAHistoryProject - 
Wasa-B - "(6) Which fight had more UG hype/excitement? Ken/Tito, Tito/Chuck, Fedor/CroCop? Something else?"

Sak/Royce, Sak/Renzo as well.

Dude knows his shit VTFU


Thanks man.

Actually, Sak/Royce was and is probably still the biggest fight of all time. It was just epic on so many levels. The anticipation. The return of Royce. The no time limit thing. The earlier controversy of Sak/Royler. Sak carrying Pride. The Gracie mystique still in tact leading up to it. The still huuuge BJJ/Gracie can do no wrong mentality leading up to then. The way it was huge turning point for the game after Sak won. The images of Rorion throwing the towel, Sak shaking hands with Helio. The clowing Sak did during the fight. The so-called controversy about Sak tapping to the guillotine. The bs about Royce would have won X rounds had their been rounds in a no time limit, no judges fight (lol). Sak chopping Royce down again and again. The image of a jumping Sak over Royce's guard....

It was truly epic.  I remember driving 2 hours to my cousin's house to watch it on his dish; his wife walks in, sees Royce butt-scooting and says "why doesn't that boy get off the ground?"  I told her his leg looked broken and her eyes got real wide.  Then she shook her head and walked away.  People forget how brave Royce that day.  15 minute round after 15 minute round getting kicked in a fractured leg and still getting off the stool for more.  Epic. Sak advancing after 90(!) minutes with Royce to take on Vov who was at his peak and a fucking DESTROYER on a 30+ fight winning streak that wouldn't be broken until later that night (Coleman).  EPIC.

One thing I will always say about Sak in that fight is that faking a tap is complete bullshit, and he should have lost the fight right there.  "Hahahaha look I pretended to tap".  Not funny.  Someday the same ref will see someone in a nasty heel-hook tapping and think "hahahaha that's a good one!  :D" No one should accept fake tapping as part of the sport, any more than they should people "pretending" to be knocked down in boxing. "I thoght it would be badass if I kept getting off the canvas like Rocky but the ref DQ'd me after the 3rd time" NO SHIT!  If you want the fight to continue to it's natural conclusion, stay the fuck off the canvas and stop trying to be funny [/rant]

 


It wasnt a fake tap, it was him saying its all good after Royce kneed him in the nuts iirc.

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