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UnderGround Forums >> Erick Silva vs Rory?


6/10/13 8:55 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Ansari -
Lex_o - 
Ansari -
Lex_o - Ufc has been protecting Rory.

Yes, they gave a 20-year-old Rory MacDonald Carlos Condit to protect him.

Roty had styles advantage Condit had nothing on Rorys wrestling . He was getting taken down and was about to loose on points. Phone Post 3.0

I don't buy that, but even if I did, do you think that in 2010 after only one fight in the UFC, they put a 20-year-old MacDonald in with an established fighter like Condit with the intention of protecting him?

Not a chance

And since then? A natural lightweight, Che Mills, and a back-from-retirement BJ Penn? Condit is the ONLY killer he has faced at 170. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 9:01 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
Foos - Rory won the first round of the condit fight
Disagree. Condit landed a lot more, did more damage. Rocked Rory at one point. The crowd and commentary is very one sided in that fight.

Either way, I'm just trying to clear up the notion that one fight showed the fighters potential and the other just showed he doesn't have it. Both fights showed the areas they needed some work on as well as all of the potential.

Also think it was great for them to realize as talented as they were, at this level there are going to be guys who take what you dish out and then give it right back. Hopefully they both reach their full potential. Could be a historic rivalry. Phone Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the judges had Rory winning the first round.

Judges were split on it but I don't remember in who's favor.

6/10/13 9:17 PM
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Ansari
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MasterofMartialArts - 
Ansari -
Lex_o - 
Ansari -
Lex_o - Ufc has been protecting Rory.

Yes, they gave a 20-year-old Rory MacDonald Carlos Condit to protect him.

Roty had styles advantage Condit had nothing on Rorys wrestling . He was getting taken down and was about to loose on points. Phone Post 3.0

I don't buy that, but even if I did, do you think that in 2010 after only one fight in the UFC, they put a 20-year-old MacDonald in with an established fighter like Condit with the intention of protecting him?

Not a chance

And since then? A natural lightweight, Che Mills, and a back-from-retirement BJ Penn? Condit is the ONLY killer he has faced at 170. Phone Post 3.0

Since Condit...

Penn: greatest lightweight of all time and arguably still top 10, maybe 5, in that division if he returned to it today.
Mike Pyle: Knocking on the door to the WW top 10. Seven wins in his last eight fights with that lone loss being to Rory.

While 4 out of 5 of Erick Silva's UFC opponents have been cut.

Who knows where they'll both end up, but if we're evaluating them based on their UFC opponents, MacDonald is clearly ahead. If Rory's been "protected", Silva's been kept in a bubble.

6/10/13 9:36 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Ansari -
MasterofMartialArts - 
Ansari -
Lex_o - 
Ansari -
Lex_o - Ufc has been protecting Rory.

Yes, they gave a 20-year-old Rory MacDonald Carlos Condit to protect him.

Roty had styles advantage Condit had nothing on Rorys wrestling . He was getting taken down and was about to loose on points. Phone Post 3.0

I don't buy that, but even if I did, do you think that in 2010 after only one fight in the UFC, they put a 20-year-old MacDonald in with an established fighter like Condit with the intention of protecting him?

Not a chance

And since then? A natural lightweight, Che Mills, and a back-from-retirement BJ Penn? Condit is the ONLY killer he has faced at 170. Phone Post 3.0

Since Condit...

Penn: greatest lightweight of all time and arguably still top 10, maybe 5, in that division if he returned to it today.
Mike Pyle: Knocking on the door to the WW top 10. Seven wins in his last eight fights with that lone loss being to Rory.

While 4 out of 5 of Erick Silva's UFC opponents have been cut.

Who knows where they'll both end up, but if we're evaluating them based on their UFC opponents, MacDonald is clearly ahead. If Rory's been "protected", Silva's been kept in a bubble.

BJ Penn: coming out of retirement fighting in a division he has hardly ever been successful in, past his prime.

Che Mills: no longer in the UFC, never got a win.

Mike Pyle: he has put a solid run together, but I consider him B level.

Mike Guymon: no longer in the UFC, 1-3 record in the big show.

Nate Diaz: natural 155er who gave up 30 pounds.

Erick Silva opponents

Luis Ramos: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (matched up against Matt Brown after Silva loss, tough break).

Carlo Prater: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (lost to TJ Grant after).

Charlie Brenneman: no longer in the UFC after going 4-4 (lost to Kyle Noke after).

Jon Fitch: perennial top 5 WW who got cut with much controversy.

Jason High: 0-2 in the UFC (losses to Silva and Brenneman).

Silva finished all of his opponents in the first round (If you include Carlo Prater DQ).

By the looks of it, I would say both have been protected, and I never said Silva had tougher opponents either. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 9:54 PM
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Ansari
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MasterofMartialArts - 
BJ Penn: coming out of retirement fighting in a division he has hardly ever been successful in, past his prime.

Che Mills: no longer in the UFC, never got a win.

Mike Pyle: he has put a solid run together, but I consider him B level.

Mike Guymon: no longer in the UFC, 1-3 record in the big show.

Nate Diaz: natural 155er who gave up 30 pounds.

Erick Silva opponents

Luis Ramos: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (matched up against Matt Brown after Silva loss, tough break).

Carlo Prater: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (lost to TJ Grant after).

Charlie Brenneman: no longer in the UFC after going 4-4 (lost to Kyle Noke after).

Jon Fitch: perennial top 5 WW who got cut with much controversy.

Jason High: 0-2 in the UFC (losses to Silva and Brenneman).

Silva finished all of his opponents in the first round (If you include Carlo Prater DQ).

By the looks of it, I would say both have been protected, and I never said Silva had tougher opponents either. Phone Post 3.0

Pyle and Penn individually are greater than any one of Silva's wins, even with Penn coming out of retirement. An argument could be made for Diaz as well.

I've only gone down this route in rebuttal to Lex_o saying Rory's been protected. I'm a believer in building guys up rather than throwing them right into the deep end.

6/10/13 9:59 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Ansari -
MasterofMartialArts - 
BJ Penn: coming out of retirement fighting in a division he has hardly ever been successful in, past his prime.

Che Mills: no longer in the UFC, never got a win.

Mike Pyle: he has put a solid run together, but I consider him B level.

Mike Guymon: no longer in the UFC, 1-3 record in the big show.

Nate Diaz: natural 155er who gave up 30 pounds.

Erick Silva opponents

Luis Ramos: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (matched up against Matt Brown after Silva loss, tough break).

Carlo Prater: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (lost to TJ Grant after).

Charlie Brenneman: no longer in the UFC after going 4-4 (lost to Kyle Noke after).

Jon Fitch: perennial top 5 WW who got cut with much controversy.

Jason High: 0-2 in the UFC (losses to Silva and Brenneman).

Silva finished all of his opponents in the first round (If you include Carlo Prater DQ).

By the looks of it, I would say both have been protected, and I never said Silva had tougher opponents either. Phone Post 3.0

Pyle and Penn individually are greater than any one of Silva's wins, even with Penn coming out of retirement. An argument could be made for Diaz as well.

I've only gone down this route in rebuttal to Lex_o saying Rory's been protected. I'm a believer in building guys up rather than throwing them right into the deep end.

Ill agree with you there, even with BJs retirement it's a bigger win. I still think he has been protected somewhat (Che Mills), but looks like Silva has been nurtured much more than Rory. I agree with the notion that guys need to build solid wins before getting a top opponent, it could ruin their prime or end their career before they reach their physical prime. Will VU tomorrow. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 10:01 PM
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The Brool Story Company
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Rory N Ricci s Third Wheel - 
Forssberg - Rory outworks just like Fitch did but better.
This. Phone Post

lol, are people really this stupid? not only are Fitch and Rory's styles not similar in the least. Rory isn't half the wrestler that Fitch is.

6/10/13 10:03 PM
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Lex_o
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Ansari -
MasterofMartialArts - 
BJ Penn: coming out of retirement fighting in a division he has hardly ever been successful in, past his prime.

Che Mills: no longer in the UFC, never got a win.

Mike Pyle: he has put a solid run together, but I consider him B level.

Mike Guymon: no longer in the UFC, 1-3 record in the big show.

Nate Diaz: natural 155er who gave up 30 pounds.

Erick Silva opponents

Luis Ramos: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (matched up against Matt Brown after Silva loss, tough break).

Carlo Prater: no longer in the UFC after going 0-2 (lost to TJ Grant after).

Charlie Brenneman: no longer in the UFC after going 4-4 (lost to Kyle Noke after).

Jon Fitch: perennial top 5 WW who got cut with much controversy.

Jason High: 0-2 in the UFC (losses to Silva and Brenneman).

Silva finished all of his opponents in the first round (If you include Carlo Prater DQ).

By the looks of it, I would say both have been protected, and I never said Silva had tougher opponents either. Phone Post 3.0

Pyle and Penn individually are greater than any one of Silva's wins, even with Penn coming out of retirement. An argument could be made for Diaz as well.

I've only gone down this route in rebuttal to Lex_o saying Rory's been protected. I'm a believer in building guys up rather than throwing them right into the deep end.

I see both these guys as future of Ww division and i want to see a great fight instead of worrying about protecting guys and building contenders. Plus seeing 1 fight now and possibly 2 later is better than doing Cain vs dos santos style 3 fights in 2 years. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 10:15 PM
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DoomFarmer
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I like Silva in this matchup.
6/10/13 10:19 PM
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wheeels
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GROUNDnLB - Only way rory would win is by takin it to the ground. He would get obliterated in the standup.

I would Have to think Erick has been focusing on his ground game after the Fitch fight. If you look at the fight, you definitely had good ground skills, and his takedown defense was not horrible, but it definitely needed improvement against the top welterweight wrestlers in the UFC. If he has improved his ground game, Erick takes it. Phone Post 3.0

didn't take long for the children to come out..
6/11/13 8:20 AM
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Joeymarvelous
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It's a great matchup for a little later. Silva seems stronger and faster, with better jits, and more KO power, while Rory has the advantage in cardio, wrestling and fight IQ. I could see Erick finishing Rory, but not vice-versa, unless Erick gassed badly. Too soon to do it, though, let's let them both build up greater name recognition and get closer to one another on the official rankings. Phone Post
6/11/13 9:05 AM
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inspireduk
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In a year or so, Erick Silva vs Rory Mcdonald is going to be the Welterweight divisions version of Cain vs JDS. Phone Post
6/11/13 9:12 AM
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Jo'donnell-Davies
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IMO Rory would finish silva. Would be a good fight tho Phone Post 3.0
6/11/13 10:14 AM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Herman Munster -

Don't know where people get Eric Silva has more strength or KO power over Rory.  Ask Mike Pyle about Rory's KO power after being fed some right hands on the ground and pound.  Didnt even last a round,  Pyle has been racking up win after win at WW and in fact has better WW wins than E Silva.  He wasn't competitive the least bit vs Macdonald.  Say what you will about Che Mills, but the beating Rory put on him was as nasty and as vicious as it gets.  Not for a second has Eric Silva demonstrated he has the potential to hurt people worse with his fists than Rory has, so lets stop pretending about this amount more of imaginary KO power Eric has over Rory.   

You do realize 3 out 4 of Silvas wins are first round KOs (including Prater)?? Phone Post 3.0
6/11/13 11:34 AM
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fightharder
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Rory is to big. Will go beastmode Aka Jon Fitch. I like Silva but he just does not handle good wrestlers well. Phone Post 3.0
6/11/13 12:43 PM
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Jetster
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Lex_o - 
Ansari -
Lex_o - Ufc has been protecting Rory.

Yes, they gave a 20-year-old Rory MacDonald Carlos Condit to protect him.

Roty had styles advantage Condit had nothing on Rorys wrestling . He was getting taken down and was about to loose on points. Phone Post 3.0

you son are fucking delusional! Condit is a stud and any fighter will tell you that, but ya keep thinking Rory is protected by a style matchup...fuck this place! lmao
6/11/13 10:55 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Herman Munster -
MasterofMartialArts - 
Herman Munster -

Don't know where people get Eric Silva has more strength or KO power over Rory.  Ask Mike Pyle about Rory's KO power after being fed some right hands on the ground and pound.  Didnt even last a round,  Pyle has been racking up win after win at WW and in fact has better WW wins than E Silva.  He wasn't competitive the least bit vs Macdonald.  Say what you will about Che Mills, but the beating Rory put on him was as nasty and as vicious as it gets.  Not for a second has Eric Silva demonstrated he has the potential to hurt people worse with his fists than Rory has, so lets stop pretending about this amount more of imaginary KO power Eric has over Rory.   

You do realize 3 out 4 of Silvas wins are first round KOs (including Prater)?? Phone Post 3.0

 

You do realize he was DQed for punches to the back of the head vs Prater, and the only other TK0 he has in the UFC is against Luis Ramos? who went 0-2 in the UFC and was cut.  Explain to me again how this demonstrates "more KO power than Rory"?

 

So the fact that it was a DQ means he didn't finish him in under a minute? He dropped with the FIRST punch, GTFO. Phone Post 3.0
6/11/13 11:36 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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KO power is different from solid ground and pound. I'm not saying that Rory has no power at all, but he has defeated all his opponents by dropping them with one shot and finishing them. I don't think Rory has developed that kind of power on the feet. He will soon, but Silva clearly has the power to finish guys on the feet. Phone Post 3.0
6/12/13 12:27 AM
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DRevan
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Has the makings of a "Velasquez Dos Santos" type of rivalry.

Barring serious aberration...these two will fight...and it will be epic.

I predict they fight each other for a title.
6/12/13 11:49 AM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Herman Munster -
MasterofMartialArts - KO power is different from solid ground and pound. I'm not saying that Rory has no power at all, but he has defeated all his opponents by dropping them with one shot and finishing them. I don't think Rory has developed that kind of power on the feet. He will soon, but Silva clearly has the power to finish guys on the feet. Phone Post 3.0

Eric Silva has done nothing worth shit on the feet against anyone worth shit in the UFC.  What he has done on the feet that you praise, has been against opponents all weaker than the opponents Rory has faced,,.  Rory would run through every opponent Silva has faced on the feet or ground, and that includes Fitch.  Not  even sure if Eric would have beaten little LW Nate Diaz on the feet.  His power has been tested against no one. 

Whether or not you think his opponents were viable, he has demonstrated plenty of KO power. And the fact that you think Rory would "run through" Ericks opponents is purely speculation. I surely do think that Erick would have outboxed Diaz and maybe even finished him. Rorys striking has developed a lot, I see him as very dangerous on the ground, and not as dangerous standing just yet. This argument wasn't about strength of opposition, it's about your claims of Silvas lack of power. He DROPPED Prater with a knee to the body in the opening secods of that fight, and finished him right away. He DROPPED Ramos with an overhand right, and finished him. He also dropped Brenneman with a knee to the body in the first round of that fight. It seems like he's been protected, but beyond that, these are some of the matchups he was scheduled for:

His debut was going to be against Mike Swick, Swick pulled out with a knee injury and was replaced by Luis Ramos.

His next bout was to be against Siyar Bahadurzada, Siyar pulled out with an injury and was replaced by Carlo Prater.

His next fight was scheduled to be against Jay Heiron, Silva pulled out due to injury.

His last fight was to be against John Hathaway, who was pulled off the card for unknown reasons. He was replaced by Jason High.

So it seems like he's been protected, when in reality, he was supposed to face some much higher caliber fighters. Phone Post 3.0
6/12/13 3:10 PM
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Fraser_Finlay
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This fight will probably happen after Ellenberger knocks Rory out. Phone Post 3.0
6/12/13 3:27 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Herman Munster -
MasterofMartialArts - 
Herman Munster -
MasterofMartialArts - KO power is different from solid ground and pound. I'm not saying that Rory has no power at all, but he has defeated all his opponents by dropping them with one shot and finishing them. I don't think Rory has developed that kind of power on the feet. He will soon, but Silva clearly has the power to finish guys on the feet. Phone Post 3.0

Eric Silva has done nothing worth shit on the feet against anyone worth shit in the UFC.  What he has done on the feet that you praise, has been against opponents all weaker than the opponents Rory has faced,,.  Rory would run through every opponent Silva has faced on the feet or ground, and that includes Fitch.  Not  even sure if Eric would have beaten little LW Nate Diaz on the feet.  His power has been tested against no one. 

Whether or not you think his opponents were viable, he has demonstrated plenty of KO power. And the fact that you think Rory would "run through" Ericks opponents is purely speculation. I surely do think that Erick would have outboxed Diaz and maybe even finished him. Rorys striking has developed a lot, I see him as very dangerous on the ground, and not as dangerous standing just yet. This argument wasn't about strength of opposition, it's about your claims of Silvas lack of power. He DROPPED Prater with a knee to the body in the opening secods of that fight, and finished him right away. He DROPPED Ramos with an overhand right, and finished him. He also dropped Brenneman with a knee to the body in the first round of that fight. It seems like he's been protected, but beyond that, these are some of the matchups he was scheduled for:

His debut was going to be against Mike Swick, Swick pulled out with a knee injury and was replaced by Luis Ramos.

His next bout was to be against Siyar Bahadurzada, Siyar pulled out with an injury and was replaced by Carlo Prater.

His next fight was scheduled to be against Jay Heiron, Silva pulled out due to injury.

His last fight was to be against John Hathaway, who was pulled off the card for unknown reasons. He was replaced by Jason High.

So it seems like he's been protected, when in reality, he was supposed to face some much higher caliber fighters. Phone Post 3.0

Get it straight.  I never claimed Eric Silva lacks power.  I question the claim that he has demonstrated superior  power to Rory Macdonald based on dropping Prater or Ramos.  I don't understand how anyone can arrive at such an absurd conclusion based on what he has done to date.  They have no common opponents, so why would you even try and make this arguement.  Guys like Nathan Diaz and BJ Penn have proven to be much more durable opponents than anyone Silva has faced.   Rory has demonstrated every last bit as much of an ability to hurt you and put a beating on your as E Silva has, and that is the only thing that is really relevant to this discussion.  You can try and stretch your posts out all you want to talk about who he almost fought.  It doesn't change anything, and you will not change my mind no matter how much lipstick you want to put on this pig, to get me to see this claim of superior power, as anything but absurd.

That's just the thing. He BEAT Penn up, and he BEAT Diaz up, he did NOT demonstrate any KO power in those fights. There's a difference between showing KO power and just beating somebody up. He beat Diaz badly, but the times he dropped him were due to suplexes and throws, not strikes. See the difference? Silva DROPS guys standing and finishes them, regardless of his opponent. Rory has done nothing to suggest he has KO power, he has never dropped anyone, he takes guys down and then pounds on them. There is a tremendous difference. I'm NOT saying he has no power, I'm saying Silva has proven to have more KO power than him. Phone Post 3.0

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