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UnderGround Forums >> Jon Fitch responds to Dana White on fighter pay

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6/10/13 5:57 PM
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luctaro
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Macedawgg - 
ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 


Its not like boxing doesn't have 2 big ass promotions that own a considerable share of the stars market
6/10/13 6:03 PM
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AshDoherty
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Hey Dana if you're reading this, would love it if you jumped in here because 1 of you guys are lying/holding back

6/10/13 6:11 PM
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D241
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Both are holding back, can't blame either one.

 

AshDoherty, you have been on a roll man, thanks for all your thread contributions man, duely noted.

6/10/13 6:17 PM
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KZTT_W85
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Ufc must have tricked him into agreeing to the terms then??? Phone Post
6/10/13 6:21 PM
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D241
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UFC is the gold standard in mma, they set the bar.

It's not about "he signed the contract". You guys can't expect smaller organizations to outbid UFC.

UFC sets the bar, and if they don't like it, tough shit. That's how it is, and I think that is the problem, but UFC is in the position to call the shots, so there are arguments for both sides.

6/10/13 6:24 PM
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Macedawgg
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luctaro - 
Macedawgg - 
ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 


Its not like boxing doesn't have 2 big ass promotions that own a considerable share of the stars market

In boxing, titles are independent of promotion, and fighters have the ability to self promote.

In MMA, neither is true, so terms are dictated.

6/10/13 6:27 PM
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luctaro
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Macedawgg - 
luctaro - 
Macedawgg - 
ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 


Its not like boxing doesn't have 2 big ass promotions that own a considerable share of the stars market

In boxing, titles are independent of promotion, and fighters have the ability to self promote.

In MMA, neither is true, so terms are dictated.


True. But the multiple world champions in every category in boxing makes sick to the stomach. Just want to point that out.
6/10/13 6:30 PM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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T-Ham -

He isn't complaining. He's responding and informing.

Quoted so others can see it.

Fact remains, these guys should be getting paid more. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 6:32 PM
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lookoutawhale
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Stephen Holder - Theres one obvious thing that nobody ever brings up in these threads about fighter pay and I think its funny because its probably the one single factor that influences why the UFC pays fighters what they do...

Dana and the Fertitas will vehemently deny it because it sounds awful to say and you can vote me down until your blue in the face but its the fucking truth:

Fighters have to remain hungry and when most fighters lifestyle changes because they have more money, their motivations change. In one way or another the resulting shift in who they become outside of the cage, affects the type of fighter they are inside the cage and they usually fight for entirely different reasons (they lose their hunger.)

I believe Dana when he said on JRE that he couldn't give a fuck less about money. I don't think that Zuffa after they recouped their losses from early on cant afford to pay their fighters in a fiscal sense literately but rather they cant afford to pay their fighters too much because they will become soft.

I think that the UFC pays its fighters just enough to keep them still hungry until its obvious that they cant justify doing so anymore.

Instead of the UFC keeping a lions share of the profits they could easily lower ticket sales and PPV prices so that both the fighters and the UFC make less money and more people can afford to watch it. But they are trying to milk as much money as they can from this thing.

If they didnt care about money why put a gag order on the contracts where the fighters arent allowed to disclose their pay? by the same token it would keep the UFC "hungry" too. Too much money causes them to put on watered down cards. If they took less money themselves maybe more of their cards would be stacked from top to bottom.

I dont think its fair to lowball the people doing a majority of the work breaking their bones to keep them hungry when you gobble up all the profits yourself. They should have a union where the employees/promoters get a certain percentage of each card like 50/50. If the employees have to stay hungry then maybe the promotion to stay hungry too to put on a better product.

Dana is a promoter hes not going to actually tell the truth always. Hes a salesman trying to sell people something. Even if the sentence starts out with "look this is the truth" it can still be bullshit being spewed. If he doesnt care about the money he could easily sell his percentage stake in the company and rest on his financial laurels. But he doesnt.. because he enjoys what he does... and he wants the money too.

6/10/13 6:34 PM
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PrestigeWorldwide
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This video will neither solve or change anything. All he did was blacklist himself from the UFC.

6/10/13 6:38 PM
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LILBROCK
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Stephen Holder - 
D241 - 
Stephen Holder - Theres one obvious thing that nobody ever brings up in these threads about fighter pay and I think its funny because its probably the one single factor that influences why the UFC pays fighters what they do...

Dana and the Fertitas will vehemently deny it because it sounds awful to say and you can vote me down until your blue in the face but its the fucking truth:

Fighters have to remain hungry and when most fighters lifestyle changes because they have more money, their motivations change. In one way or another the resulting shift in who they become outside of the cage, affects the type of fighter they are inside the cage and they usually fight for entirely different reasons (they lose their hunger.)

I believe Dana when he said on JRE that he couldn't give a fuck less about money. I don't think that Zuffa after they recouped their losses from early on cant afford to pay their fighters in a fiscal sense literately but rather they cant afford to pay their fighters too much because they will become soft.

I think that the UFC pays its fighters just enough to keep them still hungry until its obvious that they cant justify doing so anymore.

I heard this argument originally by Dana himself, and gave it some thought.

 

Then I realized, he's full of shit.

 

You think  a chance of a huge pay increase makes fighters less hungry?

You think if a fighter gets paids shitloads of money, his skills will fall off?

 

Here is someone who laughs at this idea


Yeah and I agree occasionally you get the guy whose competitive spirit makes him want to fight even more and make even more money. Lets be real though how many guys get more hungry after being fed more? Its a pretty rare trait. How many guys are making what Mayweather is making to begin with? Hes got a drive that most people simply don't possess and hes the exception not the rule.

You honestly think high levels of motivation after money are a rare trait? I would disagree. NFL players, NBA players, MLB, NHL, golfers, soccer players, Olympians, etc.. seem to excel at a very high level for many years and are always shooting for a higher level of excellence/contract. If it were a rare trait, most 1st round picks would be out of the leagues quick after they got that guaranteed money, which is way more than any MMA fighter makes.
6/10/13 6:40 PM
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Dougie
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Neither is honest about the money. But in the end, Fitch did complain about being broke. He's no financial whiz.
6/10/13 6:42 PM
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LILBROCK
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philipee32 - $176,000 is what I make in a decade.

What are you? The second best dishwasher in the world?
6/10/13 6:54 PM
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HobeyBaker
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If you're trying to make money, the honest reality is that you're better off playing tennis, golf, or even skateboarding.
6/10/13 6:58 PM
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Barbalos
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I was raised that my financial matters were my own. That this idiot is trying to call out the UFC by reciting all his own finances, makes me doubt the human race. Have a little dignity man. You weren't starving.
6/10/13 7:11 PM
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canuck34
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Lol at him complaining that "guys who lose make less money". No shit Sherlock. Phone Post
6/10/13 7:16 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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HobeyBaker - If you're trying to make money, the honest reality is that you're better off playing tennis, golf, or even skateboarding.

There's a way deeper talent pool for tennis and golf than there is for MMA. There's more money at the top of these sports, but it's much much harder to get there.

6/10/13 7:18 PM
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canuck34
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HobeyBaker - If you're trying to make money, the honest reality is that you're better off playing tennis, golf, or even skateboarding.
Again, if you are a gatekeeper type who never wins championships you are probably not making big money in other fringe sports like skateboarding, and if you are you make it in videos and sponsorships...just like UFC guys.

And tennis is not comparable. Tennis is a huge sport with an insanely deep talent pool. To make the top 10 in tennis is insanely hard. Probably 100 times harder than MMA. Top guys in tennis started playing before age 5 and train/practice insanely long hours and 99.99999999% of them never even succeed at a college level let alone pro. Yes, if you make it you are rich...but making it in to tennis makes making it in MMA seem like a joke.

There are no top tennis players who picked up the sport in their 20s. There are lots of top MMA guys who did. Phone Post
6/10/13 7:22 PM
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HobeyBaker
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How hard it is to become professional or great is irrelevant. What makes more money per year, the UFC or the ATP World Tour? I honestly don't know.
6/10/13 7:25 PM
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BTT-RyannVonDoom
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - Jon completely contradicts himself multiple times.

Also cute how they hint at him having to pay taxes as an independant contractor, but leave out the fact that all the training/gym costs are a WRITE OFF directly from his gross income as "unreimbursed expenses". Phone Post
Manager fees, training partners etc.. I like how you leave that out also. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 7:28 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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LILBROCK -
philipee32 - $176,000 is what I make in a decade.

What are you? The second best dishwasher in the world?
He ain't better than Calo at it that's for sure Phone Post
6/10/13 7:30 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth -
T-Ham -

He isn't complaining. He's responding and informing.

Quoted so others can see it.

Fact remains, these guys should be getting paid more. Phone Post 3.0
Yep Phone Post
6/10/13 7:32 PM
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JStrongMMA
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I think people are missing the point of the video. Jon didn't complain about the money he was paid and never has. He was just trying to be transparent abiut what fighters of his caliber make since it's relevant as there has been a lot of discussion regarding fighter pay recently. Phone Post
6/10/13 7:45 PM
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Macedawgg
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Well--in truth, lets call a spade a spade. 

He doesn't say, "this is my complaint. . ."

However, by releasing the video to address the issue, he is making it known he is not content.

6/10/13 7:59 PM
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canuck34
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HobeyBaker - How hard it is to become professional or great is irrelevant. What makes more money per year, the UFC or the ATP World Tour? I honestly don't know.
ATP by a massive order of magnitude. The players total purse from Wimbledon alone is over $25MM and the players actually complain they they don't get a high enough percent of total revenue. Phone Post

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