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UnderGround Forums >> Jon Fitch responds to Dana White on fighter pay


6/10/13 5:31 PM
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Lynchman
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The Swinging Richard - 

D241 went full retard a few posts back - I'm settling in.


Awesome gif. What is that from?
6/10/13 5:33 PM
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Silverball
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GC111 -
Shanle929 - 176K a year is a decent living. Even in CA. Apparently he needs budgeting lessons. Phone Post 3.0

You're idiotic. What's your world ranking at your job? The billionth? You shouldn't be making any money then.
Yeah, and that's not a lot of a money for a family in San Jose, CA. It's an expensive place to live. Cain doesn't even live there. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 5:36 PM
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slamming
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Choochy - I guess he never had any backroom bonuses or sponsorships? Phone Post
Why hasn't he provided those figures? He made much more than $176,000 per year when you factor those, to which the UFC exposure only makes possible. He's only giving half the story,is he not? Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 5:38 PM
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D241
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I put a lot of emphasis on professional fighters.
They're not normal. They have normal traits, but they have something that most don't, which is how they end up fighting.

One of my best forms of entertainment, is watching guys fight. 
I'll be honest and say guys like Askren and Fitch aren't nearly as exciting as other welter weights, but I also think they are better than guys who are more exciting than them. I still think they should be paid high. Give the exciting guys fights that give them extra pay like main event or ppv cut, but guys who can kick asses of most everyone else, they should be paid better.

 

There's a reason people like Dana and the Fertitta brothers aren't complaining about how much money they pay to the fighters. 

I guarandamntee you that if UFC was struggling to where they have to go the k1 route and look at skimping fighters on their contractual pay, Dana would be dropping f-bombs left and right about how much the fighters are making while the company is scraping by.

 

Fighters like Fitch have been with the company for a long time, see them(UFC) improving, see them getting network deals, and Fitch wasn't seeing any of the growth in terms of being compensated financially.

6/10/13 5:38 PM
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Fan of fanboys
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D241 -
DJmixmasterMobbie - 
D241 - 

It's not Fitch's job to market himself, it helps, but that's not his job. 

The job of promoting a fight or fighters, goes to the.......PROMOTION.

 

Nobody is closer to GSP's wins at welterweight than Jon Fitch. 

 

Sorry but it comes down to this-

Jon Fitch>Chael Sonnen as a fighter

Chael Sonnen>Jon Fitch as a self promoter

problem, it's not the fighters job to promote themselves, it's their job to train and perform, everything else is secondary.

UFC chooses who they market. They could market proven fighters and explain how proven Fitch is, or they could market people like Chael where instead of showing fight footage, they show trash talk footage.

 

Fitch is just as, if not more than proven in terms of accomplishments in his division in the UFC.

Sorry but him not getting a rematch against GSP, but Chael and Vitor get to fight for the lhw title-that's an imbalance, and Fitch is one of those guys on the short end of the stick.

 

There's a reason why guys like Vitor and Chael aren't complaining about money, and a reason guys like Fitch do. Some earn it with their fighting, others earn it with their marketability. The problem is UFC can market anyone, they just go the easy route.


Am I missing something here?...


Seems like the logical answer to me is the more marketable, the more $$$.

It's not rocket science.

In addition to being a good fighter you have to be marketable... without that there is no progress, which is the goal of the UFC, in addition to people knowing who the fuck you are!!!!!

Serious question.

 

Who do you think has more means to promote Jon Fitch-UFC or Fitch?

Who has money set aside for promoting fighters-fighters, or the promotions?

 

You think if UFC promoted Fitch way more than what they did, he'd still be making the same money?

Of course not. UFC easily could've shown highlights of Fitch dominating his opponents, getting his hand raised over and over, show stats of his fighting career.

 

Now this is where it gets gray.

Who is the more proven fighter, Hardy or Fitch? obviously it's fitch

Who is the more marketable fighter, Hardy or Fitch? obvoiusly it's Hardy

 

UFC has a choice, market the guy who clearly is the better fighter, but less appeal, bland look, bland personality, bland but effective fighting style, vs marketing a guy who has a red mowhawk, is from England, and is very outspoken, has an exciting style, far less proven as a fighter.

 

UFC went with the option that makes money, not the option that promotes the actual best fighters in the world. It's understandable, but that doesn't make it right, especially for good, honest, hard working guys like Jon Fitch.

That's why it is an for-profit sports entertainment business.

Not a .org. Not a strictly athletic like say college wrestling Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 5:55 PM
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Macedawgg
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ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 

6/10/13 5:57 PM
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luctaro
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Macedawgg - 
ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 


Its not like boxing doesn't have 2 big ass promotions that own a considerable share of the stars market
6/10/13 6:03 PM
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AshDoherty
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Hey Dana if you're reading this, would love it if you jumped in here because 1 of you guys are lying/holding back

6/10/13 6:11 PM
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D241
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Both are holding back, can't blame either one.

 

AshDoherty, you have been on a roll man, thanks for all your thread contributions man, duely noted.

6/10/13 6:17 PM
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KZTT_W85
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Ufc must have tricked him into agreeing to the terms then??? Phone Post
6/10/13 6:21 PM
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D241
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UFC is the gold standard in mma, they set the bar.

It's not about "he signed the contract". You guys can't expect smaller organizations to outbid UFC.

UFC sets the bar, and if they don't like it, tough shit. That's how it is, and I think that is the problem, but UFC is in the position to call the shots, so there are arguments for both sides.

6/10/13 6:24 PM
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Macedawgg
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luctaro - 
Macedawgg - 
ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 


Its not like boxing doesn't have 2 big ass promotions that own a considerable share of the stars market

In boxing, titles are independent of promotion, and fighters have the ability to self promote.

In MMA, neither is true, so terms are dictated.

6/10/13 6:27 PM
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luctaro
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Macedawgg - 
luctaro - 
Macedawgg - 
ssj - I wonder when big name MMA fighters will split to fight eacher in their own event and just share their money ala boxing .. more money for a strong undercard too

And by design, this is contractually prohibited to the greatest extent possible. . . and exactly why you don't see the UFC correct the "champion's clause" which Epstein admitted was of questionable enforceability. 


Its not like boxing doesn't have 2 big ass promotions that own a considerable share of the stars market

In boxing, titles are independent of promotion, and fighters have the ability to self promote.

In MMA, neither is true, so terms are dictated.


True. But the multiple world champions in every category in boxing makes sick to the stomach. Just want to point that out.
6/10/13 6:29 PM
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Internettufguy
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Lazer MMA -
UNION

/thread
UNION

/MMA

Fixed. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 6:30 PM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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T-Ham -

He isn't complaining. He's responding and informing.

Quoted so others can see it.

Fact remains, these guys should be getting paid more. Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 6:32 PM
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lookoutawhale
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Stephen Holder - Theres one obvious thing that nobody ever brings up in these threads about fighter pay and I think its funny because its probably the one single factor that influences why the UFC pays fighters what they do...

Dana and the Fertitas will vehemently deny it because it sounds awful to say and you can vote me down until your blue in the face but its the fucking truth:

Fighters have to remain hungry and when most fighters lifestyle changes because they have more money, their motivations change. In one way or another the resulting shift in who they become outside of the cage, affects the type of fighter they are inside the cage and they usually fight for entirely different reasons (they lose their hunger.)

I believe Dana when he said on JRE that he couldn't give a fuck less about money. I don't think that Zuffa after they recouped their losses from early on cant afford to pay their fighters in a fiscal sense literately but rather they cant afford to pay their fighters too much because they will become soft.

I think that the UFC pays its fighters just enough to keep them still hungry until its obvious that they cant justify doing so anymore.

Instead of the UFC keeping a lions share of the profits they could easily lower ticket sales and PPV prices so that both the fighters and the UFC make less money and more people can afford to watch it. But they are trying to milk as much money as they can from this thing.

If they didnt care about money why put a gag order on the contracts where the fighters arent allowed to disclose their pay? by the same token it would keep the UFC "hungry" too. Too much money causes them to put on watered down cards. If they took less money themselves maybe more of their cards would be stacked from top to bottom.

I dont think its fair to lowball the people doing a majority of the work breaking their bones to keep them hungry when you gobble up all the profits yourself. They should have a union where the employees/promoters get a certain percentage of each card like 50/50. If the employees have to stay hungry then maybe the promotion to stay hungry too to put on a better product.

Dana is a promoter hes not going to actually tell the truth always. Hes a salesman trying to sell people something. Even if the sentence starts out with "look this is the truth" it can still be bullshit being spewed. If he doesnt care about the money he could easily sell his percentage stake in the company and rest on his financial laurels. But he doesnt.. because he enjoys what he does... and he wants the money too.

6/10/13 6:34 PM
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PrestigeWorldwide
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This video will neither solve or change anything. All he did was blacklist himself from the UFC.

6/10/13 6:38 PM
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LILBROCK
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Stephen Holder - 
D241 - 
Stephen Holder - Theres one obvious thing that nobody ever brings up in these threads about fighter pay and I think its funny because its probably the one single factor that influences why the UFC pays fighters what they do...

Dana and the Fertitas will vehemently deny it because it sounds awful to say and you can vote me down until your blue in the face but its the fucking truth:

Fighters have to remain hungry and when most fighters lifestyle changes because they have more money, their motivations change. In one way or another the resulting shift in who they become outside of the cage, affects the type of fighter they are inside the cage and they usually fight for entirely different reasons (they lose their hunger.)

I believe Dana when he said on JRE that he couldn't give a fuck less about money. I don't think that Zuffa after they recouped their losses from early on cant afford to pay their fighters in a fiscal sense literately but rather they cant afford to pay their fighters too much because they will become soft.

I think that the UFC pays its fighters just enough to keep them still hungry until its obvious that they cant justify doing so anymore.

I heard this argument originally by Dana himself, and gave it some thought.

 

Then I realized, he's full of shit.

 

You think  a chance of a huge pay increase makes fighters less hungry?

You think if a fighter gets paids shitloads of money, his skills will fall off?

 

Here is someone who laughs at this idea


Yeah and I agree occasionally you get the guy whose competitive spirit makes him want to fight even more and make even more money. Lets be real though how many guys get more hungry after being fed more? Its a pretty rare trait. How many guys are making what Mayweather is making to begin with? Hes got a drive that most people simply don't possess and hes the exception not the rule.

You honestly think high levels of motivation after money are a rare trait? I would disagree. NFL players, NBA players, MLB, NHL, golfers, soccer players, Olympians, etc.. seem to excel at a very high level for many years and are always shooting for a higher level of excellence/contract. If it were a rare trait, most 1st round picks would be out of the leagues quick after they got that guaranteed money, which is way more than any MMA fighter makes.
6/10/13 6:40 PM
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Dougie
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Neither is honest about the money. But in the end, Fitch did complain about being broke. He's no financial whiz.
6/10/13 6:42 PM
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LILBROCK
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philipee32 - $176,000 is what I make in a decade.

What are you? The second best dishwasher in the world?
6/10/13 6:54 PM
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HobeyBaker
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If you're trying to make money, the honest reality is that you're better off playing tennis, golf, or even skateboarding.
6/10/13 6:58 PM
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Barbalos
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I was raised that my financial matters were my own. That this idiot is trying to call out the UFC by reciting all his own finances, makes me doubt the human race. Have a little dignity man. You weren't starving.
6/10/13 7:11 PM
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canuck34
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Lol at him complaining that "guys who lose make less money". No shit Sherlock. Phone Post
6/10/13 7:16 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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HobeyBaker - If you're trying to make money, the honest reality is that you're better off playing tennis, golf, or even skateboarding.

There's a way deeper talent pool for tennis and golf than there is for MMA. There's more money at the top of these sports, but it's much much harder to get there.

6/10/13 7:18 PM
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canuck34
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HobeyBaker - If you're trying to make money, the honest reality is that you're better off playing tennis, golf, or even skateboarding.
Again, if you are a gatekeeper type who never wins championships you are probably not making big money in other fringe sports like skateboarding, and if you are you make it in videos and sponsorships...just like UFC guys.

And tennis is not comparable. Tennis is a huge sport with an insanely deep talent pool. To make the top 10 in tennis is insanely hard. Probably 100 times harder than MMA. Top guys in tennis started playing before age 5 and train/practice insanely long hours and 99.99999999% of them never even succeed at a college level let alone pro. Yes, if you make it you are rich...but making it in to tennis makes making it in MMA seem like a joke.

There are no top tennis players who picked up the sport in their 20s. There are lots of top MMA guys who did. Phone Post

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