UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Jon Fitch responds to Dana White on fighter pay


6/10/13 11:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dwhy83
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/4/12
Posts: 169
McDonalds makes millions, and I only get a fraction of that at minimum wage. What gives???? Phone Post 3.0
6/10/13 11:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheKidAintMine
154 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14616
KingInFishnetsBottomingBetas - 
TexasBadAss - 
grafzep - 176,000/yr over his entire career with the UFC

He would find his true value by fighting Koscheck on a card they indy promoted. You could throw in the guys who were making 15/15 and upset. They could split the gate or try a ppv cut. That would tell him real fast if he was over or under paid.

Really stupid, GSP wouldn't hit those numbers he does on a self promoted card.

That's kind of the point. TBA is talking about finding Fitch's "true value", which in his post refers to his market value. What Fitch can command either by promoting himself or from other promotions.

The die hard fans on this board seriously overestimate the popularity of MMA. Most casual sports fans don't even know what MMA stands for. The UFC brand is kind of popular among a certain demographic, but even then, at best, it's still a niche brand. But that said, the UFC brand is still far more popular than any one fighter. The brand itself sells more PPV's than any one fighter.

There is no MMA fighter right now who can promote his own fights and even begin to compete with the UFC brand. No MMA fighter today can promote his own fight and make that Floyd Mayweather money.

MMA fighters need the UFC to make any real money. Anderson just happily renewed his contract with Zuffa. Trust me, Anderson and his team like Dana and the Fertittas, but if he could promote his own events and make more money, he would leave Zuffa in a heartbeat. And this isn't Zuffa's fault. Most casual sports fans just don't care that much about MMA. Most people still think of it as 2 sweaty dudes on the ground groping each other.

And I'm not going to get into what is "fair" and what fighters should or shouldn't make. Without knowing Zuffa's exact revenues, costs and expenses, it'd just be all speculation and conjecture.
6/10/13 11:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheKidAintMine
154 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14617
BTT-RyannVonDoom - 
hedfunk - The fact is if he was more exciting as a fighter and a person he would of been paid more. Let's not beat around the bush. Even on here a forum for mma diehards, 90% of people complained about his style. He was not exciting. Not even a bit. He was the poster boy for what alot of people dislike in the sport. Lay and praying. That's not a good thing.

In most businesses you get paid more if you make more money for the business. How much did Fitch really bring in?

He maybe should of got another shot at GSP based on his record but where is the upside with that for the UFC? Did fitch change his game at all after losing to GSP? No. He himself knew that his style put him on the endangered species list. Be didn't do anything to change that. Phone Post
You just stated that mma should be sports entertainment. Phone Post 3.0

All pro sports are sports entertainment.
6/11/13 12:15 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimbonice
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/13/12
Posts: 788
Out of the woodwork come the Dana dick lickers. Phone Post
6/11/13 12:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
canuck34
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/27/02
Posts: 35745
jimbonice - Out of the woodwork come the Dana dick lickers. Phone Post
So, if you understand supply and demand and business you are a Dana dick licker? Shut up commie. Phone Post
6/11/13 1:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
D241
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 16248

James Toney, in 1 UFC fight=

UFC 118 Fighter Salaries: James Toney Earns $500,000 in Debut Loss

 

 

"You don't understand supply and demand"

 

 

James Toney says

 

 

 

 

6/11/13 1:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
D241
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/09
Posts: 16249

^^^You are forgetting UFC CAN pay more, they choose not to for the purposes of greed. Whether you justify it or not is up to you, but the UFC IS financially able to pay a considerable amount more to winning, proven fighters like Jon Fitch.

6/11/13 2:06 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hendofanforlife
153 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/11
Posts: 1737
D241 - 

^^^You are forgetting UFC CAN pay more, they choose not to for the purposes of greed. Whether you justify it or not is up to you, but the UFC IS financially able to pay a considerable amount more to winning, proven fighters like Jon Fitch.


So exactly how much should they have paid? What's the cutoff for acceptable?

What if they paid every top contender millions? Would they be profitable? How about the number 4 and 5 guys? Is it a sliding scale?

6/11/13 2:18 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
aarick161
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/15/09
Posts: 501
What he didn't mention is at that income level 50% or so goes to tax - federal, state and social security (12.4%). Add to that, that fighting, and most professional sports, aren't like regular jobs where you can work for 35 years. Most successful fighters are lucky to have 5-10 years of real earning power.

It's really the only reason I never considered a fighting career. My corporate salary may be slightly less than Fitch averaged at his peak, but 10 years from now when I'm fat and out of shape I'll still have the same earning potential.

UFC level fighters certainly should be getting paid more. They are the top of the top in the world in their sport. Fitch was one of the best, yet he was making less than the worst NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL players by a long shot. Since the UFC is profiting $100 million a year plus (just a guess based on what I've read) giving the fighters a little more cash shouldn't be an issue. Phone Post 3.0
6/11/13 2:21 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Eatin Applesauce
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/23/09
Posts: 1029
anyone who has to deal with media and fans should be payed as such imo
6/11/13 2:34 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mihow
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/17/11
Posts: 19825
My 40 a year job having ass has no place in this discussion

However I do enjoy everyone telling everyone everyone else's business Phone Post 3.0
6/11/13 2:53 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rockyboy
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/26/02
Posts: 2373
Hope him all the best, fighting is tough business, only the champions see the real money
6/11/13 3:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BertR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/09
Posts: 354
hendofanforlife - 
D241 - 

^^^You are forgetting UFC CAN pay more, they choose not to for the purposes of greed. Whether you justify it or not is up to you, but the UFC IS financially able to pay a considerable amount more to winning, proven fighters like Jon Fitch.


So exactly how much should they have paid? What's the cutoff for acceptable?

What if they paid every top contender millions? Would they be profitable? How about the number 4 and 5 guys? Is it a sliding scale?


that's a political decision made by consensus in the negotiations between labour and ownership. Because Zuffa hides their finances labour needs to flex their organized muscle until they have an independent audit that they can agree is a fair calculation, and then from there negotiate a percentage that compensates them for their labour while balancing that with the needs of the business if there is conflict.
6/11/13 3:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheKidAintMine
154 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14624
BertR - 
hendofanforlife - 
D241 - 

^^^You are forgetting UFC CAN pay more, they choose not to for the purposes of greed. Whether you justify it or not is up to you, but the UFC IS financially able to pay a considerable amount more to winning, proven fighters like Jon Fitch.


So exactly how much should they have paid? What's the cutoff for acceptable?

What if they paid every top contender millions? Would they be profitable? How about the number 4 and 5 guys? Is it a sliding scale?


that's a political decision made by consensus in the negotiations between labour and ownership. Because Zuffa hides their finances labour needs to flex their organized muscle until they have an independent audit that they can agree is a fair calculation, and then from there negotiate a percentage that compensates them for their labour while balancing that with the needs of the business if there is conflict.

Why haven't the fighters collectively "flexed their organized muscle" yet? It's not Zuffa's job to unionize, that's entirely up to the fighters.
6/11/13 3:43 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hendofanforlife
153 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/11
Posts: 1738
BertR - 
hendofanforlife - 
D241 - 

^^^You are forgetting UFC CAN pay more, they choose not to for the purposes of greed. Whether you justify it or not is up to you, but the UFC IS financially able to pay a considerable amount more to winning, proven fighters like Jon Fitch.


So exactly how much should they have paid? What's the cutoff for acceptable?

What if they paid every top contender millions? Would they be profitable? How about the number 4 and 5 guys? Is it a sliding scale?


that's a political decision made by consensus in the negotiations between labour and ownership. Because Zuffa hides their finances labour needs to flex their organized muscle until they have an independent audit that they can agree is a fair calculation, and then from there negotiate a percentage that compensates them for their labour while balancing that with the needs of the business if there is conflict.

So a contract?
6/11/13 3:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BertR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/09
Posts: 356
hendofanforlife - 
BertR - 
hendofanforlife - 
D241 - 

^^^You are forgetting UFC CAN pay more, they choose not to for the purposes of greed. Whether you justify it or not is up to you, but the UFC IS financially able to pay a considerable amount more to winning, proven fighters like Jon Fitch.


So exactly how much should they have paid? What's the cutoff for acceptable?

What if they paid every top contender millions? Would they be profitable? How about the number 4 and 5 guys? Is it a sliding scale?


that's a political decision made by consensus in the negotiations between labour and ownership. Because Zuffa hides their finances labour needs to flex their organized muscle until they have an independent audit that they can agree is a fair calculation, and then from there negotiate a percentage that compensates them for their labour while balancing that with the needs of the business if there is conflict.

So a contract?

yes, but one backed by the power of organized labour negotiating instead of individuals being divided and conquered.
6/11/13 4:56 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Macedawgg
33 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/2/03
Posts: 14657
bozy -  That's why they pay there managers isn't it. To get them the best deals. Phone Post

Yes, exactly.

http://www.fightersonlymag.com/content/news/11659-dos-santos-questions-need-for-managers-at-ufc-level

“In fact, the UFC is such an organized company that they themselves are [practically] our own managers.  Usually they already do anything they want in the US.  The manager doesn't have much of a say in UFC's decisions.... Of course they help here and there but it's very little."  --Junior Dos Santos

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Shogun-Rua-Talks-Changes-in-Management-Training-Camp-40139

"The UFC has made it clear that we don’t need a manager; all negotiations are conducted by the athletes themselves. A manager today is not like in the Pride days. At that time, they had much more weight."  Shogun Rua

Monte Cox, on ESPN’s Outside the Lines television program, stated “you don’t negotiate with the UFC.”  According to Cox, “either you can be in the UFC family or you cannot.”  Not taking what is offered puts you “outside the family."

http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/01/rampage-says-ufc-bridge-burned-looking-forward-to-next-career-chapter

"UFC is a huge platform, and that's part of the problem.  When you have that big of a platform and you've got the market monopolized like that, you can say take it or leave it.": Quinton Jackson

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/3/Finding-Fedor-10538

"The contract that we were presented with by the UFC was simply impossible, couldn’t be signed -- I couldn't leave. If I won, I had to fight eight times in two years. If I lost one fight, then the UFC had the right to rip up the contract. At the conclusion of the contract, if I am undefeated, then it automatically extends for an as yet unspecified period of time, though for the same compensation. Basically I can’t leave undefeated. I can’t give interviews, appear in films or advertising. I don’t have the right to do anything without the UFC’s agreement. I could do nothing without the OK from the UFC. I didn’t have the right to compete in combat sambo competition. It’s my national sport. It’s the Russian sport, which in his time our president competed in, and I no longer have the right to do so. There were many such clauses; the contract was 18 pages in length. It was written in such a way that I had absolutely no rights while the UFC could at any moment, if something didn’t suit them, tear up the agreement. We worked with lawyers who told us that it was patently impossible to sign such a document."  --Fedor Emelianenko

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/10-Questions-for-Lorenzo-Fertitta-18516

"We offered the exact same contract that three hundred other guys have signed, including Brock Lesnar, Chuck Liddell, Anderson Silva, GSP, all the top stars. Why is that contract not good enough for Fedor?"  Lorenzo Fertitta

 

---Maybe not.

6/11/13 4:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BertR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/09
Posts: 357
bozy -  That's why they pay there managers isn't it. To get them the best deals. Phone Post

I agree, but i also think the fact they don't have a trustworthy account of Zuffa's financials or receive at least half of the estimated revenue speaks for itself in terms of the poor leverage their labour has currently. That won't come unless they band together to make the power of their collective labour capable of shutting down business if necessary.

It's an unfortunate reality but many people are unethical/unempathetic to other people's plight and only respect the nature of a threat of power being applied against them, so for workers to get a bigger slice of the pie they're producing they need to organize to apply that threat by being capable of shutting a business down if necessary.
6/11/13 5:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BertR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/09
Posts: 358
nice post Macedawgg. Goes to highlight the nature of how little leverage fighters have if they join the Zuffa Machine.
6/11/13 5:26 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BertR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/09
Posts: 359
bozy - 
BertR -
bozy -  That's why they pay there managers isn't it. To get them the best deals. Phone Post

I agree, but i also think the fact they don't have a trustworthy account of Zuffa's financials or receive at least half of the estimated revenue speaks for itself in terms of the poor leverage their labour has currently. That won't come unless they band together to make the power of their collective labour capable of shutting down business if necessary.

It's an unfortunate reality but many people are unethical/unempathetic to other people's plight and only respect the nature of a threat of power being applied against them, so for workers to get a bigger slice of the pie they're producing they need to organize to apply that threat by being capable of shutting a business down if necessary.
I hear ya. Im torn alittle. The company spends all the $$ making shit hapn. Setting up the events and television crap. I wish all fighters made more but I can't deal sorry for a man who is making broke Fitch money doing what he loves to do Phone Post

at the same time though they're spending that money so they can make money, and they're making money off of fitch even if he's not as popular as some of the other fighters just by filling out cards and being a top fighter to "legitimize" the competition aspect of the sport in order to sell to people that they're watching fair fights between the best talent in it, which is itself a popular selling point.

The goal of the guys unionizing isn't to kill the sport since they'd be killing their revenue stream too, it's just so they get a much larger share in the profits from the explosion in popularity and sales it's gone through which they helped create. That's the least they should have as a reward for destroying their bodies for our entertainment.
6/11/13 6:12 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Matt Phillips
784 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/29/10
Posts: 10527

I dont know if this has been mentioned but Zuffa has a whole office full of people that need to be paid as well.

6/11/13 6:24 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Megatherium
69 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/18/11
Posts: 5713
D241 - 


6/11/13 6:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Macedawgg
33 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/2/03
Posts: 14658
Matt Phillips - 

I dont know if this has been mentioned but Zuffa has a whole office full of people that need to be paid as well.


If all 500 employees were paid $800,000 per year, there would still be a hefty sum remaining at the end of the year for the owners.

This argument does not stand up to even minimal scrutiny.

6/11/13 6:29 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Megatherium
69 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06/11/13 6:48 AM
Member Since: 11/18/11
Posts: 5714
MMA is the darnedest sport. Gotta be the only sport I know of where the 'fans' actually hate the players and and idolize some dickhead league president. I'm a hockey fan and I fuckin' hate NHL commissioner Gary Bettman. The idea of hockey fans fawning over that cocksucker is ridiculous. Everybody hates Bettman. And they love the players. It's the way pro sports is supposed to work.

Nobody buys tickets to watch some loudmouth fatass goofball count his money. Well I guess Vince McMahon is a pretty big star in WWF. But last I heard, that wasn't a real sport. And old Vince, I guess, isn't exactly a fatass.
6/11/13 6:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ramsey
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/10/07
Posts: 2087
I have no sympathy for a person or persons who sign a contract with the understanding of what they will be making.

If there is a mirror in your home Fitch, the person looking back at you is the one you should call out and blame.



Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.