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UnderGround Forums >> Rogan: Why Silva is the greatest of all-time


6/20/13 5:39 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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CLINTK9 - 
crumbs - Fedor and Anderson both relatively the same age (actually Fedor is younger ), both amazing careers.

It just that ones Had 3 fight losing streak, while during that same time the other has just kept winning.


Anderson Silva, the greatest....... so far.

and one lost a few times early in his career when Fedor did not.

you must admit, a 3 fight losing streak during the prime of your career (i'll put it another way, going a whole year without winning ), would be considered more detrimental to your legacy/GOAT considerations, then sporadic losses during the beginning of your career.



That wasn't even close to Fedor's prime.

6/20/13 5:44 PM
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TommyToeHold
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CLINTK9 - 
TommyToeHold - 

I've got nothing to add to the debate here because I think you can't really compare apples and oranges and I'm not into the GOAT stuff, but one thing that has always struck me about Anderson Silva is when he gets into the 'I'm-annoyed-you're-still-trying-to-hit-me' mode. It doesn't happen every fight, and I don't know if it has to do with that fighter being disrespectful to Silva so he wants to humiliate them, or if during the course of the fight, having got a feel for his opponent, he realizes that they are not on his level, but it's like watching a cat knock around a mouse. It's shocking to me as a hardcore fan, and my friends who don't normally watch fights go crazy when it happens. Joe said it best: it's like a movie or something. Say what you want about competition, but anyone who is competing against Anderson Silva is a world class fighter to have even got to that point, so to see him play them like a harp is something I don't expect we'll see again for a long time, even from fighters as dominant as Jones. Now maybe that's just Anderson's personality, and JBJ/GSP/Fedor/Jesus could do the same thing, but that complete lack of concern for what his opponent is throwing at him will always be something that, in my mind, differentiates Silva from anyone else I've watched fight. Simply incredible.


you just described Fedor. a guy who doesnt care what his opponents throw at him and actually fights his opponents to their strengths (nog in his gaurd, cro-cop standing up). how can you see that in Anderson and not Fedor?

I agree with you 100%, I just mean the way that Anderson goes about it, almost like he's toying with people. It's humilating almost. I've never felt that way watching a Fedor fight. He fought through his opponents strengths, but I never thought afterward, that just seemed downright humilating for his opponent. I don't think that was Fedor's personality. Again, I'm not saying Silva is better than Fedor because of that. Like I said, I don't think those comparisons can be made. I don't know who the GOAT is, I just know there are three or four guys that seem head-and-shoulders better than most.

6/20/13 5:45 PM
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JoeDavolasRoundhouseKick
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crumbs -
CLINTK9 - 
crumbs - Fedor and Anderson both relatively the same age (actually Fedor is younger ), both amazing careers.

It just that ones Had 3 fight losing streak, while during that same time the other has just kept winning.


Anderson Silva, the greatest....... so far.

and one lost a few times early in his career when Fedor did not.

you must admit, a 3 fight losing streak during the prime of your career (i'll put it another way, going a whole year without winning ), would be considered more detrimental to your legacy/GOAT considerations, then sporadic losses during the beginning of your career.


Same shit happened to Ali. When your speed goes it goes what can you do. Fedor has giving you enough material you can look at. Phone Post 3.0
6/20/13 5:46 PM
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Wasa-B
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I can just see Joe and Dana laughing about all the rukus these discussions cause each time. I think people need to get over that this subject is about as subjective as it gets and its a constantly evolving discussion as well. But these things never end well on here.
6/20/13 5:48 PM
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UGCTT_nightkap
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -

I agree that Anderson is the GOAT, but I disagree when Joe says that there's nobody who even comes close.

I think that Anderson is the most spectacular and awe-inspiring fighter in MMA history, and because of that I think people tend to overstate his greatness. People watch the Griffin and Belfort fights and they think the guy is a god. At the end of the day, a win is a win, and I would argue that GSP has beaten better competition more consistently. I would also argue that Fedor's winning streak, while not as impressive as Silva's, is somewhat comparable. I'm not trying to undermine his talent or anything, but I think when you look at his career from a resume standpoint, the gap between him and Fedor and him and GSP isn't as big as people seem to think.

I think Anderson is the GOAT by a pretty clear margin, but Fedor and GSP are still in his league.

Good post! Im really just popping in to tell ya I hope you've got some good names thought up....Not that it'll matter!
But times ticking for one of us! Phone Post
6/20/13 5:52 PM
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crumbs
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh - 
crumbs - 
CLINTK9 - 
crumbs - Fedor and Anderson both relatively the same age (actually Fedor is younger ), both amazing careers.

It just that ones Had 3 fight losing streak, while during that same time the other has just kept winning.


Anderson Silva, the greatest....... so far.

and one lost a few times early in his career when Fedor did not.

you must admit, a 3 fight losing streak during the prime of your career (i'll put it another way, going a whole year without winning ), would be considered more detrimental to your legacy/GOAT considerations, then sporadic losses during the beginning of your career.



That wasn't even close to Fedor's prime.


really, cause that would mean Anderson was not in his prime either at that time, as Fedor is younger then Anderson.

so while Fedor was on his 3 fight losing streak(past his prime), Anderson was Front face KO'ing TRT monsters, past him prime !!

Amazing. truly the Greatest.
6/20/13 7:43 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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crumbs - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh - 
crumbs - 
CLINTK9 - 
crumbs - Fedor and Anderson both relatively the same age (actually Fedor is younger ), both amazing careers.

It just that ones Had 3 fight losing streak, while during that same time the other has just kept winning.


Anderson Silva, the greatest....... so far.

and one lost a few times early in his career when Fedor did not.

you must admit, a 3 fight losing streak during the prime of your career (i'll put it another way, going a whole year without winning ), would be considered more detrimental to your legacy/GOAT considerations, then sporadic losses during the beginning of your career.



That wasn't even close to Fedor's prime.


really, cause that would mean Anderson was not in his prime either at that time, as Fedor is younger then Anderson.

so while Fedor was on his 3 fight losing streak(past his prime), Anderson was Front face KO'ing TRT monsters, past him prime !!

Amazing. truly the Greatest.

Everyone's prime is different, bud.

Mark Hunt started a 6 fight losing streak at the age of 32, and achieved a 4 fight winning streak against good competition at the age of 39. So using your logic he was in his prime when he got flatlined by Melvin Manhoef (a middleweight), and was out of his prime when he knocked out Struve.

6/20/13 8:01 PM
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Archangel
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y'all do realize this is the same Joe Rogan that used to spout that Brock Lesnar was the greatest fighter and the baddest man on the planet ?
6/20/13 8:04 PM
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Lazer MMA
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Has a word about JBJ been posted in this thread?

Just saying

Bump in 2015
6/20/13 9:47 PM
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ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh
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UGCTT_nightkap - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh -

I agree that Anderson is the GOAT, but I disagree when Joe says that there's nobody who even comes close.

I think that Anderson is the most spectacular and awe-inspiring fighter in MMA history, and because of that I think people tend to overstate his greatness. People watch the Griffin and Belfort fights and they think the guy is a god. At the end of the day, a win is a win, and I would argue that GSP has beaten better competition more consistently. I would also argue that Fedor's winning streak, while not as impressive as Silva's, is somewhat comparable. I'm not trying to undermine his talent or anything, but I think when you look at his career from a resume standpoint, the gap between him and Fedor and him and GSP isn't as big as people seem to think.

I think Anderson is the GOAT by a pretty clear margin, but Fedor and GSP are still in his league.

Good post! Im really just popping in to tell ya I hope you've got some good names thought up....Not that it'll matter!
But times ticking for one of us! Phone Post

Ticking on you buddy.

I hope.

6/20/13 9:58 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
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fightharder - 
anthonyshogun - Until he can dominate larger opponents like fedor did , he will always be number 2 IMO Phone Post 3.0
I love Fedor but how can you be the greatest if you lose.. even against smaller opponents (Hendo) like Fedor did.

Anderson is easily GOAT. Phone Post 3.0


If you are going by losses AS's are worse by far looking at whom he lost to. BTW did you see the size difference in the fight with Chonan FFS??

They are in no way worse by far.

They are just different scenarios in very different careers.

Anderson was a MT striker who stepped into MMA and had to evolve the other disciplines. He lost early in his career, and then peaked.

Fedor was a Sambo expert which is pretty much already covering all the disciplines of MMA. He lost at the tail end of his career when the sport and athletes evolved past him.

They are just totally different scenarios. Phone Post

He started losing at the same time he faltered in Combat Sambo. That's only been pointed out about a hundred times.
6/20/13 10:08 PM
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Jumbo Reverse Shrimp
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crumbs - 
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh - 
crumbs - 
CLINTK9 - 
crumbs - Fedor and Anderson both relatively the same age (actually Fedor is younger ), both amazing careers.

It just that ones Had 3 fight losing streak, while during that same time the other has just kept winning.


Anderson Silva, the greatest....... so far.

and one lost a few times early in his career when Fedor did not.

you must admit, a 3 fight losing streak during the prime of your career (i'll put it another way, going a whole year without winning ), would be considered more detrimental to your legacy/GOAT considerations, then sporadic losses during the beginning of your career.



That wasn't even close to Fedor's prime.


really, cause that would mean Anderson was not in his prime either at that time, as Fedor is younger then Anderson.

so while Fedor was on his 3 fight losing streak(past his prime), Anderson was Front face KO'ing TRT monsters, past him prime !!

Amazing. truly the Greatest.

And Nog looks about 10 years older than Werdum.
6/21/13 3:31 AM
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idsmashit
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Fedor ducked the UFC id say its a fact. He always said nothing and let Vadim Finkelstein decide. He's the only world class fighter who didnt care about fighting the best. Hendo destroyed him a middleweight.
6/21/13 6:36 AM
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panthonyjr
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ShawnTheBadger -

Nobody at any weight-class has ever "made it look easy" like Anderson has against so many opponents at two (2) weight-classes. 

Other fighters have fought over multiple weight classes (Hendo, Edgar, BJ), or as the smaller-guy in a bigger division (Fedor, Hendo, Edgar, BJ), or are so dominant in their division that many fans clamor for them to go up (Bones, BJ).

However, not a single one of those other bad-asses do what Anderson does, which is make their opponents appear to be clumsy, fumbling, slow, awkward and unskilled amateurs.  It is uncanny, mesmerizing, nigh-other-worldly and it unequivocably separates Anderson Silva from every other mixed-martial-artist on planet Earth.

Every time Anderson steps in the ring, magic can and often does happen.

This. I will never understand how Anderson Silva is not the undisputed GOAT, but hey, opinions are like assholes ... Phone Post 3.0
6/21/13 8:42 AM
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MrColdCock
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Fedor spent almost 10 years as the best fighter on the planet. Nobody in the world was better then him. Almost 10 years without losing. Almost 10 years without losing a round.

He also spent a good portion of that time as the number 1 pound for pound fighter... As a HW. People don't seem to understand how impressive that is. No other heavyweight MMA fighter, or boxer for that matter has been considered the best pound for pound fighter in their sport for at least the last 25 years. Maybe closer to 40. Fedor spent almost his entire career in that spot. That is greatness. Phone Post
6/21/13 12:43 PM
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wiggum
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^^Great post, Clint. But I think you're last paragraph may be a bit too much in the other direction.

For 10 years, Fedor was the best heavyweight on Earth. I honestly don't know how anyone could dispute that. Is there any argument that there was a better heavyweight?! Of course not. At no point were Sergei, Randy, Tim, or Andre better. And Fedor proved he was the best by beating Nog, Cro Cop, Tim, and Andre. Period.

Similarly, has anyone doubted that Anderson was the best 185 pounder in the world since he put his first beating on Franklin. I don't think we should employ double standards. For the Cote's and Liete's of the world, there is Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin, and Vitor Belfort. It's like the Chois and Zulus juxtaposed against Nog and Cro Cop.

The fact is, both guys fought the best and destroyed them. They are the best.

Regardless of whether or not they have had moments of weak competition, was there ever really a doubt that they are the best at their weight during their prime?
6/21/13 12:51 PM
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bjws
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Tilla - Give it a rest, Joe.

Anderson fights the likes of Bonnar (who is B-Level) and because he lets him tee-off on him, and misses, he is Neo's clone... Zzzz.

Anderson, IMO, he's got the same syndrome as Mayweather. Fight once in a blue moon and fight pointless fights and moan about stuff...

Irvin? Bonnar? Griffin? Cote? Thales (however you pronounce it)? Daft fights.

When Andy is on HE'S ON, but he makes too many excuses... "He's my friend" etc.

You shouldn't fight @ 205 if you won't fight the best there. That's why I hope GSP never takes this fight.

Fedor, for me, is the greatest.

Humble, Tried to kill you, Finished fights, Didn't complain, Fought the two greatest HW's of his time (and beat them), He just got on with it!

Bones is great, but the dude IS a HW. Look at his fucking frame. Fedor was essentially a 185'er going against the best.

GSP is a better MMA'er than Anderson. He is more well rounded.

I've never seen the hype over Anderson.


You're crazy man. I personally think GSP would win this fight by control. But to say that you have never seen the hype over Silva makes no sense. It's not hype, it's reality that he has won every fight in his UFC career. It is reality that he has gone up to 205 to save cards for the company and fans and won while making it look easy. It is reality that he is the MW GOAT. It's all real and we get to witness it. Why bother being negative over something that is crystal clear the truth?
6/21/13 1:07 PM
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crumbs
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Fedor had a great career, but Anderson with his no 3-fight losing streak, would be slightly better cause of that. they are so close in credentials( both have faced weak competition, both have faced great competition, both are same age, both had/have amazing winning streaks), they are so close that it would be something so simple as a 3 fight losing streak that would tip the scales barely in Andersons favor.

dont give me that shit "he wasnt in his prime" when he went on his 3 fight losing streak. he just came off destroying Tim, and one of the most amazing counter flying knee KOs in history, and another brilliant KO of Rogers, and everyone at that point calling him the greatest ever. and most people consider 25-early 30s your athletic prime, not just pick the best part of your career and call it a day.

6/21/13 1:24 PM
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orcus
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"Humble, Tried to kill you, Finished fights, Didn't complain, Fought the two greatest HW's of his time (and beat them), He just got on with it!"

Anderson has a better finishing percentage than Fedor did in his "prime", and against better opponents -- to say nothing of his finishes being far more dazzling. Anderson has not just fought the "two greatest" MWs of his time, he has fought ALL of the best middleweights of his time (and beat them). 

"and how would Fedor look fighting Maia, Cote, Lutter, Lietes, Okami, Irvin, Nate, and Bonner?"

Oops, your forgot "how would Fedor look fighting Dan Henderson".

6/21/13 1:27 PM
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wiggum
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crumbs - Fedor had a great career, but Anderson with his no 3-fight losing streak, would be slightly better cause of that. they are so close in credentials( both have faced weak competition, both have faced great competition, both are same age, both had/have amazing winning streaks), they are so close that it would be something so simple as a 3 fight losing streak that would tip the scales barely in Andersons favor.

dont give me that shit "he wasnt in his prime" when he went on his 3 fight losing streak. he just came off destroying Tim, and one of the most amazing counter flying knee KOs in history, and another brilliant KO of Rogers, and everyone at that point calling him the greatest ever. and most people consider 25-early 30s your athletic prime, not just pick the best part of your career and call it a day.


I think this post is half right.

You are succinctly sum up Anderson and Fedor: "both have faced weak competition, both have faced great competition, both are same age, both had/have amazing winning streaks." Can't really say it much better.

But Fedor definitely wasn't in his prime in Strikeforce. You can look at the pictures. You can see the GIFs of his strikes to takedowns from Nog and CC fights. He wasn't there in SF.
6/21/13 1:48 PM
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wiggum
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I'm unsure how Fedor fans can discredit Anderson and how Anderson fans can discredit Fedor.

They both did the same thing: dominate for a sustained period of time while facing the best competition with lesser competition in between.

Does anyone think that there is a 185 pounder Anderson should have fought, didn't fight, and would have somehow shown his greatness even more?

Does anyone really need Fedor to have fought anyone else during his 10 year run to prove that he was the best? Who was better than him? Sergei? Give me a break.
6/21/13 2:07 PM
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eXtv
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orcus - 

"Humble, Tried to kill you, Finished fights, Didn't complain, Fought the two greatest HW's of his time (and beat them), He just got on with it!"

Anderson has a better finishing percentage than Fedor did in his "prime", and against better opponents -- to say nothing of his finishes being far more dazzling. Anderson has not just fought the "two greatest" MWs of his time, he has fought ALL of the best middleweights of his time (and beat them). 

"and how would Fedor look fighting Maia, Cote, Lutter, Lietes, Okami, Irvin, Nate, and Bonner?"

Oops, your forgot "how would Fedor look fighting Dan Henderson".


Fedor of 2002-2008 would've completely tooled Hendo and you know it.
6/21/13 2:10 PM
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eXtv
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crumbs - Fedor had a great career, but Anderson with his no 3-fight losing streak, would be slightly better cause of that. they are so close in credentials( both have faced weak competition, both have faced great competition, both are same age, both had/have amazing winning streaks), they are so close that it would be something so simple as a 3 fight losing streak that would tip the scales barely in Andersons favor.

dont give me that shit "he wasnt in his prime" when he went on his 3 fight losing streak. he just came off destroying Tim, and one of the most amazing counter flying knee KOs in history, and another brilliant KO of Rogers, and everyone at that point calling him the greatest ever. and most people consider 25-early 30s your athletic prime, not just pick the best part of your career and call it a day.


Fedor looked far slower and sloppier in the Rogers fight compared with the Sylvia fight. I think the last time we saw a 'Prime' Fedor fight was the Sylvia fight and after that his skills and mental focus began to deteriorate quickly.

Even though Fedor beat Rogers in amazing fashion, there was still a hell of a lot of criticism about his performance in that fight and rightly so. He was too reckless, aggressive and not patient enough. Fedor was definitely no longer in his Prime in the Rogers (and Arlovski) fights.
6/21/13 2:15 PM
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JoeDavolasRoundhouseKick
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eXtv -
orcus - 

"Humble, Tried to kill you, Finished fights, Didn't complain, Fought the two greatest HW's of his time (and beat them), He just got on with it!"

Anderson has a better finishing percentage than Fedor did in his "prime", and against better opponents -- to say nothing of his finishes being far more dazzling. Anderson has not just fought the "two greatest" MWs of his time, he has fought ALL of the best middleweights of his time (and beat them). 

"and how would Fedor look fighting Maia, Cote, Lutter, Lietes, Okami, Irvin, Nate, and Bonner?"

Oops, your forgot "how would Fedor look fighting Dan Henderson".


Fedor of 2002-2008 would've completely tooled Hendo and you know it.
Would have tooled Anderson as well. Phone Post 3.0
6/21/13 2:18 PM
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eXtv
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JoeDavolasRoundhouseKick - 
eXtv -
orcus - 

"Humble, Tried to kill you, Finished fights, Didn't complain, Fought the two greatest HW's of his time (and beat them), He just got on with it!"

Anderson has a better finishing percentage than Fedor did in his "prime", and against better opponents -- to say nothing of his finishes being far more dazzling. Anderson has not just fought the "two greatest" MWs of his time, he has fought ALL of the best middleweights of his time (and beat them). 

"and how would Fedor look fighting Maia, Cote, Lutter, Lietes, Okami, Irvin, Nate, and Bonner?"

Oops, your forgot "how would Fedor look fighting Dan Henderson".


Fedor of 2002-2008 would've completely tooled Hendo and you know it.
Would have tooled Anderson as well. Phone Post 3.0

Damn right he would of. There is not a fighter on the planet that he ever existed that I would favour over Fedor in his physical and mental prime.

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