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UnderGround Forums >> Bellator Flops on Spike... only 450k viewers.


6/21/13 11:59 PM
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MMALOGIC
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People keep bringing up the NHL... we're talking about 6 million viewers on network TV... that's nothing. It's great for the NHL and their viewers are increasing tremendously but in terms of competition 6 million on network tv is nothing.

Look at the top 100 shows for that night on basic cable:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/06/20/wednesday-cable-ratings-futurama-royal-pains-win-night-necessary-roughness-daily-show-south-beach-tow-more/188185/

a rerun of FUll house pulled 1.4 million viewers. There was nothing on tv that night besides the NHL and bellator. if they cant hack it in this landscape the competition is alot worse in the fall.

Even on Friday nights you have smackdown, college football, etc...
6/22/13 12:04 AM
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fightharder
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willienugget - 
Macedawgg - 

Let's not kid ourselves on the contracts either--Zuffa's and Bellator's do virtually the same exact things.

Bellator, as the minnow to Zuffa's whale, has utilized their oppressive contracts recently. . .

Zuffa, however, has done similar things as well. 


It's pretty seldom a fighter wants to leave UFC but when it happens, I haven't noticed UFC stand in their way. Diaz wanted to fight for Gracie. Rampage wanted 'greener pastures'. Henderson to Strikeforce. All I remember hearing was "Good Luck". He could be full of shit, but Dana has said that every UFC fighter has a matching clause.

Can you elaborate please?

Its the same for Bellator contracts....

 

And do you really think Dana would say good luck to either GSP or Silva if they want to walk out of the door all of a sudden. You must be joking. The UFC would never let their big stars walk either without a fight (especially considering the numbers their new ''stars'' are doing).

6/22/13 12:14 AM
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CindyO
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JimmersonzGlove - 

I hope they survive. Like I said in another thread...getting so much MMA on TV (Fox family/Spike/AXS) is awesome. Beats the days of ordering tapes or buying KOTC/IFC videos at the store to get your fix.


This, especially since its summer- the season of reruns! DVD and FF thru commercials.

 

Cindy

6/22/13 12:17 AM
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fightharder
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Anyways Bellator could do a lot of thing a lot better.

 

But making there contracts less restrictive in not one of them.

 

Becoming a feeder league for the UFC is certainly not one of them.

And letting the few stars that they have walkover to the UFC without actually doing everything in their power to keep them is not one of them either.If the UFC really wants there atheletes they should go above and beyond in the process of ''matching'' and assume some risk (they obviously can...thought it would make the prospect of acquiring Bellators talent a lot riskier). In the end i still think the UFC will go the extra mile for really special talent (though unfortunate they also something go the extra mile for very mediocre talent like MR Lombard).

 

Fighters need to get better agents and lawyers in the meantime thought. Or they need to go fight in Resurrection  if they always want to be free to move to the UFC when they come knocking (hence the reason this feeder league exsists....which is a great concept btw,pity the couldnt make this work with the Strikeforce brand). All these things are growing pains in a sport that is becoming more professional and slightly more competitive. Never a bad thing for us fans nor for the fighters livelyhoods.

6/22/13 12:25 AM
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Chris27
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Bozy your info is wrong.


http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2010/09/ufc-fight-night-22-ratings-broadcast-peaks-with-1-6-million-viewers

 

Did 1.2 mill average and peaked at 1.6 mill.

6/22/13 12:26 AM
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MMALOGIC
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deadlyonetwo3 - Bellator's failure would only equal less options for professional fighters to have successful careers and I, for one, do not support that at all. Phone Post 3.0

Bulldozers mean less work for those with a shovel... so let's get rid of bulldozers and we solve the unemployment problem.

what does bellators success mean? they are moving to friday nights... so that will cut into axs tv which could potentially threaten RFA's, TITAN fc's, and all the other orgs who depend on axs tv money and exposure.

what about all those fighters and commentators on axs tv potentially losing their jobs?

Im not saying bellator needs to fail or they need to succeed. im saying the market will decide and based on the indicators from national promotion after national promotion going belly up, And these ratings, the general market does not care nor wants an option besides the UFC in the mma space.

Nobody has yet truly tested the market to see whether or not it wants an "NCAA" in the mma space.

IF one of the major reasons why the Ultimate fighter is successful because you can follow the participants careers into the UFC, then why wouldnt an organization like bellator or some other organization be successfull by being the same type of gateway as tuf into the UFC?
6/22/13 12:27 AM
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CindyO
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DeuceDroppin - Fuck Bellator! I hope they go down hard. I'm not one of these haters either. The more promotions the better and I really would like for Zuffa to have some competition, but fuck these guys. The way they shit on fighters by fucking with their livelihood/s, they deserve anything bad coming their way. Phone Post 3.0

^^^ Paid poster:)

Fighters got bills to pay, amirite? And the Zuffa can't contract w/EVERY fighter. The decision makers just need to get their shit together and work it out because even though they're riding on the coattails of the UFC they're trying to pinpoint diferences to make it seem as if they aren't. I think they're wasting too much time chasing that impossible dream (for the most part) and their marketing sucks. Plus, they can't seem to keep their contract business out of the media and court and some of the cases seem to have merit even if its just with the fans POV. In other words, they're spinning their wheels and don't have their priorities in order, IMO. But they'll work it out, hopefully.

Focus on the fights instead of the BS from the decision makers and FF thru the commercials for a better viewing experience.

 

Cindy

6/22/13 12:29 AM
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fightharder
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bozy -  Looked up the lowest UFC in spike tv was UFC Fight Night 22, Nate Marquart* vs Paul Harris. 455k. Don't know what else was on that night. Phone Post

The UFC is always going to be a superior product. They where novel then (and really the only viable thing around in MMA for most american viewers). Bellator has competition from the UFC (among other things) and they have been putting out a lot of cards/shows/general content. Ofcource Bellator is never going to pull the same numbers as the UFC.

 

Having said that the debut numbers where obviously bad. They probably need to reconnect with the pro wrestling programming again and they do need to fine tune the product.

 

But perhaps they will do better numbers next week. Perhaps it was all Mo fault (sorry mr Lawal your a great fight but the king already.,come on now).

 

As for fightmaster,i am not really sure if the concept is going to work. TUF is basically fucked as well. They did decent rating this season (was a fucking great season) but there definitely going for even more drama and less fighting this year (Roussey and Tate plus woman and men in the same house...that is some fucking Jerry Springer shit waiting to happen/wishing that it would happen....and its unfortunate because last season was classy and a great watch) so apparently there far from totally happy. I be amazed if they will ever get the high numbers from the past again. Which is a shame because i still mostly enjoy the TUF shows (and i do think Fox has great production value) as i did the  Fightmaster show.

 

Still why arent we,the viewer,still not able to pick the fights. The idea is hardly novel,wouldn't be hard to achieve and would might be the thing that blows new life into the whole drawnout concept.

 

Bellator should have done that instead of''the fighter choose everything thing'' (thought its slightly intriguing as well).

6/22/13 12:29 AM
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CindyO
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dabigchet - didnt read the whole thread, but it looks like the last episode of TUF on spike did 1.5M for its debut

http://mmapayout.com/2011/09/the-ultimate-fighter-14-ep-1-1-5-million-viewers/

ouch

Did it say what the first episode of TUF did? 

 

Cindy

6/22/13 12:33 AM
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Chris27
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CanadianGSPFan - 
D241 -

Ok guys, let me know if I'm alone in this or I'm not the only one....

 

 

But does it seem like every thread that is more business side related, ie ratings, bellator, zuffa, ppv buys, etc....

we always have MMALogic, Cindy O, and Chris27 posting?

Of course your question was generally ignored or brushes aside, but here's what I think anyway:

Chris27: paid poster, Zuffa shill. He used to post like crazy in those circle-jerk threads on the OG (before they were removed) to get his votes up so that people think he's a decent poster. He often posts news stories before anyone else and I appreciate the early scoop he delivers, but it's pretty clear he is very biased towards Zuffa, too biased for a fan with no dog in the fight.

CindyO - gets trashed and shat on a lot, but I don't think she's a paid poster. I think she's a friend of Dana's and has a very clear bias like any friend would, but I've seen her post kind things about Bjork/Bellator at least once or twice :). I'll probably take a lot of heat for this opinion but it's just my opinion.

MMALOGIC - clearly someone who works for Zuffa. All you have to do is look at his posting history. Phone Post

You are an idiot if you think Im paid by Zuffa to post.

And every single poster in this forum is bias, some towards the UFC, I'll admit I'm a UFC fan, more than any other org.  Some like liquidrob and Bellator Fan and others are bias towards Bellator.

 

Others hate Zuffa and trash them anytime they can.  Others defend Zuffa, others defend Bellator, some hate the UFC but also hate Bellator, some hate Bellator but their hatred for the UFC is greater so they will ride for Bellator.

 

6/22/13 12:41 AM
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CindyO
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lookoutawhale - 

This dude has to work for Zuffa or something..

 

Ha! I used to think the same thing but I know who he is so I have checked several times and he absolutely doesn't. The folks who matter don't even know who he is plus he has been very critical of Zuffa in the past so, no.

 

Cindy

6/22/13 12:48 AM
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MMALOGIC
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bozy -  Is 450k really that bad. They can't all be record breaking. Phone Post

yes... to illustrate how bad it is bellator 360 and mma uncensored pulled around 450 to 550k viewers. Spike quickly took them off primetime and eventually cancelled uncensored.

now consider how much more expensive it is to produce a reality show and a live event and you realize bellator is on borrowed time.

also consider that spike's weekly primetime avge for the year is around 750k to 800k viewers. their primetime avge last week was 650k viewers and besides TNA everything else was a rerun if im not mistaken.

so to spend tons of money paying an emmy award winning producer to develop a reality show and on top that the expenses of a live event, it is devastating to pull only 450k when you averaged 650k a week prior with mostly shitty reruns.

wait, it gets worse...

if you can barely pull 500k viewers on a wednesday night you're gonna pull even less on a friday night (where they are being moved to in the fall).
6/22/13 1:03 AM
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MMALOGIC
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in order for mma to survive on spike they need to be at 650l to 800k viewers on a friday night and keep costs extremely low.

the question is how do you do that?

bellator is now signing ufc castoffs in wholesale quantities and that's a good start. They are also moving away from the tournament structure which is also good.

let zuffa spend the money to build the familiar faces and pick them up on the cheap when they are cut and have nowhere else to go. there has to be another hood and that's by becoming a gateway to the ufc the way the ultimate fighter is.

familiar ufc castoffs + great prospects + being a gateway to the ufc = in my opinion is the best possible tv product for mma you can create at the lowest cost.

You gotta get to the 650k to 800k range on friday nights and keep the costs extremely low.

instead of 1 rampage jackson, give me 10 ben saunders. Get rid of the restrictive contracts and you'll get the chris weidmans and jon jones of the world before they enter the UFC.

you're tape library all of sudden increases in value. Jon Jones is the UFC champ? you now have a clip show of jon jones and how he developed.
6/22/13 1:09 AM
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CindyO
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Reed Rothchild - 
CindyO -
Chris27 - 
Reed Rothchild - 
MMALOGIC - John Morgan ?@MMAjunkieJohn 11m

"Should have exact numbers shortly, but it sounds like both live Bellator shows pulled around 450,000 viewers each last night."

Make room for the tombstone because that's a major disaster.

The reality show will most certainly be cancelled. But the more important question is what this means for the live events...

if you can only pull 450k viewers on the best weeknight for mma programming, what on earth will happen when they move to friday nights?

We're talking 350k to 375k viewers. that's not gonna last very long on spike. even 450k wont work on friday primetime.

The fat lady has begun her song.
Still much better than the last UFC on Fuel which was on a prime Saturday night slot Phone Post 3.0

Really?  The last Fuel event did 313k, the one before it did 485k.

They are also on a network in 63 million less homes than Spike.  


Did the UFC ever do a show on Spike with less that 450k viewers and if so, how many events befire things took off? I can't recall. Thanks.

 

Cindy

You have google look it up yourself


Reed Phone Post 3.0

I addressed Chris not Asshole so why are you chiming in?

 

Cindy

6/22/13 1:13 AM
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CindyO
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MMALOGIC - 
JeffersonDArcyChoke - 
MMALOGIC - you gotta wonder what this means for bellators budget. Viacom is gonna divest heavily out of mma at this point... but to what extent?

will they keep it around in a late night timeslot? the only timeslot bellator would work on spike would be on thursday nights at 11pm to 1am - but even that's a stretch.

I expect Rampage to start complaining any day now. Randy Couture must be kicking himself right about now.
Why do you care?

Will you get the timeslot?

Will Viacom give you money to fund your creative vision?

Is Bellator preventing you from getting Viacom to give you anything?

Unless you draw a paycheck from Bellator or Viacom; there is no reason to care for anything in terms of ratings.

If you're a fan of MMA, why would you want Bellator to close?

Do you want those fighters, announcers, lighting techs, etc to lose their job?

If you don't like the product, don't watch it.

I just will never, ever understand why a fan without a vested financial stake would ever profess glee over a company failing. Phone Post

on the one hand you're asking "why do you care", on the other hand you're saying you should care because of all the fighters, announcers, etc... losing there job. which is it?

The ratings are important because of that very thing... to ensure those poeple still have a job.

I do come off hard on bellator for 3 reasons:

1) their scumbag business practices

2) to virtually kick the bellator schills in the balls.

2) And believe it or not to actually help... so bellator can make some productive changes.

What's the point in cheerleading an org to it's grave? what benefit did the schills provide affliction? or SF? nothing.

People have been cheerleading orgs to their grave. what's the point?

When Dana's Jive Live came out I shat on that. I said the concept was flawed and said it was a failed project as soon as the debut ratings came out and that zuffa would go back to the taped version. People were saying give it a chance, it's only the first episode... blah blah blah.

I wrote profusely how the friday night time slot is gonna hurt zufffa's ppv business and how the ufc was bleeding fans every week.

Zuffa is a smart organization so they usually make the right changes so they dont need me or anyone else telling them what to do. But Input and criticism is important.

Bellator isnt there yet. they need criticism more than zuffa so they can self correct.

Cheerleading doesnt help Zuffa. Same way it doesnt help Bellator.


I dont just criticize, I also provide suggestions.... and if the bellator shills would do the same instead of sugar coating things they may actually be of benefit.

I offered my suggestions on this thread...

Cut costs and instead of trying to compete with the UFC and get crushed by the wave, instead ride the wave.

You do that by getting rid of the restrictive contracts. You'll be able to sign guys for less and the talent will be more eager to sign with you if you are a better gateway to the UFC.

Bellator will have a way more marketable roster for television at a lower cost and fans will be more willing to invest there time watching it because they'll be able to follow their favorite guys to the UFC.

You'll have guys going back and forth from the UFC and better prospects willing to sign with you. You'll be riding the UFC wave instead of being crushed by it.

Being a gateway to the UFC, I believe will not only improve their product tremendously from a talent and marketing perspective but it will also keep costs to a bare minimum.

In my opinion that's the only way they survive.

Im not creating troll thread just bashing bellator mindlessly. It is harsh but Im also offering input.

Wow, that might be the best post you have ever made and its accurate. VTFU.

 

Cindy

6/22/13 1:15 AM
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CindyO
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duckhuntgangsta - 
lookoutawhale -

This dude has to work for Zuffa or something..

 
I'd put money on it. He has insights that no one else has on certain topics and it very analytical.

The Bellator hate is strong with LOGIC but I can see where he is coming from. Bellator does not have a great tack record with certain fighters.

I do agree about that the market is prime for a large promotion to act as the NCAA of MMA. I made that tread back in 2010. Bellator's arrogance has stopped them from reaching their potential IMO. I hope that WOF becomes that. It's not about being #2, it's about being #1 in a different capacity/market. Phone Post 3.0

I'd put money on it. He has insights that no one else has on certain topics and it very analytical.

 

Shoot! Had I not already told you I checked I would have taken that bet=)

 

Cindy

6/22/13 1:21 AM
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CindyO
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D241 - 

Ok guys, let me know if I'm alone in this or I'm not the only one....

 

 

But does it seem like every thread that is more business side related, ie ratings, bellator, zuffa, ppv buys, etc....

we always have MMALogic, Cindy O, and Chris27 posting?


Ha! That should be a given because its obviously a natural interest. I think JeffersonDAC is a bit similar. But facts are facts no matter who posts them. You should stick with opinions because that is your strength:)

 

Cindy

6/22/13 1:27 AM
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Colboyo
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CindyO - 
lookoutawhale - 

This dude has to work for Zuffa or something..

 

Ha! I used to think the same thing but I know who he is so I have checked several times and he absolutely doesn't. The folks who matter don't even know who he is plus he has been very critical of Zuffa in the past so, no.

 

Cindy


Is it Ariel Helwani? Please, anyone but Ariel
6/22/13 1:29 AM
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Ministry of Truth
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lookoutawhale - 

This dude has to work for Zuffa or something..

 

He/She certainly has an agenda, else why hate on MMA on an MMA site?
6/22/13 1:38 AM
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Thacommish
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duckhuntgangsta - 
MMALOGIC - in order for mma to survive on spike they need to be at 650l to 800k viewers on a friday night and keep costs extremely low.

the question is how do you do that?

bellator is now signing ufc castoffs in wholesale quantities and that's a good start. They are also moving away from the tournament structure which is also good.

let zuffa spend the money to build the familiar faces and pick them up on the cheap when they are cut and have nowhere else to go. there has to be another hood and that's by becoming a gateway to the ufc the way the ultimate fighter is.

familiar ufc castoffs + great prospects + being a gateway to the ufc = in my opinion is the best possible tv product for mma you can create at the lowest cost.

You gotta get to the 650k to 800k range on friday nights and keep the costs extremely low.

instead of 1 rampage jackson, give me 10 ben saunders. Get rid of the restrictive contracts and you'll get the chris weidmans and jon jones of the world before they enter the UFC.

you're tape library all of sudden increases in value. Jon Jones is the UFC champ? you now have a clip show of jon jones and how he developed.
Fully agreed...I really wish I didn't request for all my old threads to be deleted. This was one of my first threads.

Bellator would 100% have more access to talent of it wasn't looked at like a roadblock to the UFC.

Also, of they were a legit NCAA type promotion they could sell contracts to the IFC for a premium or even work out a kick back from the UFC if they produced a fighter for them. Phone Post 3.0

are they really moving away from the tournament format?
6/22/13 1:52 AM
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CindyO
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fightharder - 
Chris27 - 
D241 - 

Ok guys, let me know if I'm alone in this or I'm not the only one....

 

 

But does it seem like every thread that is more business side related, ie ratings, bellator, zuffa, ppv buys, etc....

we always have MMALogic, Cindy O, and Chris27 posting?


So what?  So I post in threads about ratings, fights, fight disscussion, fight announcements, I post in all threads.

Am I suddenly not allowed to post in threads about ratings or something?  


Nope,

 

kind of a douchy thing to say. I think it is cool and admirable that you post in a lot of business related threads. Its a fucking important part of the whole sport and interesting as fuck considering the whole thing is still developing and growing so fast.

 

Having said that MMALogic and Cindy have a very pronounced bias. Its fair enough if they dont claim otherwise but Logic tries to present his very subjective opinions as objective reasoning. That is kind of a problem. I dont think you do the same but guilty by association can be one of the hassles of life.

 


Having said that MMALogic and Cindy have a very pronounced bias. Its fair enough if they dont claim otherwise

 

I call it how I see it. Is there something I posted incorrect about Bellator on this thread or any other? If so, copy/paste it and we'll talk about that.

Just because I'm friends with DW it doesn't mean I am only UFC. Pull my old IFL threads and you'll see that on this board I was the MMMMAIN IFL supporter, probably started the most threads about them, interviewed the owners and fighters, covered their events, and became good friends with Gareb Shamus- all of which DW knew and NEVER said shit to me about it because he didn't care. I even posted what I shared here ON the UFCs board since I was  regular there, too.

And Scott Coker? I love him and we communicate regularly and have for a few years, before and after the buyout. Pull those threads and tell me about my bias.

I was vocal about EliteXC in that they had a great roster, money behind them and seemed to want to do good things. Unfortunately, Gary Shaw was an idiot pig, his son was a joke, and they didn't listen to guys like TJay Thompson likethey should have because he had the necessary experience to put out a LOT of the fires the dumbasses created... but he wasn't a Shaw disciple. I think Shaw was spending 100k per month in rent to look like Elite was a company of ballers and made his retarded son a decision making Vice President. GTFO! lol

Affliction, lather-rinse-repeat of EliteXC... great roster, shitty decision makers. Its possible to support the athletes in more than one promotion and DW doesn't give a shit about anything good or bad that I post.

Like I said, do your homework and then post where I'm being unfair/incorrect to any of these promotions and I will address it because I am always clear that the fighters aren't the bad guys when threads like this one pop up. Its possible to support the athletes even if you don't agree with the dumb shit promoters do sometimes.

 

Cindy

6/22/13 2:02 AM
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MMALOGIC
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duckhuntgangsta - 
MMALOGIC - in order for mma to survive on spike they need to be at 650l to 800k viewers on a friday night and keep costs extremely low.

the question is how do you do that?

bellator is now signing ufc castoffs in wholesale quantities and that's a good start. They are also moving away from the tournament structure which is also good.

let zuffa spend the money to build the familiar faces and pick them up on the cheap when they are cut and have nowhere else to go. there has to be another hood and that's by becoming a gateway to the ufc the way the ultimate fighter is.

familiar ufc castoffs + great prospects + being a gateway to the ufc = in my opinion is the best possible tv product for mma you can create at the lowest cost.

You gotta get to the 650k to 800k range on friday nights and keep the costs extremely low.

instead of 1 rampage jackson, give me 10 ben saunders. Get rid of the restrictive contracts and you'll get the chris weidmans and jon jones of the world before they enter the UFC.

you're tape library all of sudden increases in value. Jon Jones is the UFC champ? you now have a clip show of jon jones and how he developed.
Fully agreed...I really wish I didn't request for all my old threads to be deleted. This was one of my first threads.

Bellator would 100% have more access to talent of it wasn't looked at like a roadblock to the UFC.

Also, of they were a legit NCAA type promotion they could sell contracts to the IFC for a premium or even work out a kick back from the UFC if they produced a fighter for them. Phone Post 3.0

virtually every top prospect would sign with bellator... and every ufc castoff would sign with bellator for less than what bellator is paying now.

Their level of talent and the marketability of their roster would increase geometrically.

as it is now the top managers and top gyms steer their guys away from bellator. UFC castoffs with a name try not to sign with them and if they do they command a premium because they know they are stuck there.

So right now bellator is actually paying more for lesser talent and lower marketable names because of the hope that one day if oil strikes they'll have that talent locked up... it's a ridiculous premise.
6/22/13 2:04 AM
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Colboyo
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Lets bring in Alex Jones to get to the bottom of this...
6/22/13 2:04 AM
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CindyO
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bozy -  Looked up the lowest UFC in spike tv was UFC Fight Night 22, Nate Marquart* vs Paul Harris. 455k. Don't know what else was on that night. Phone Post

Was that number the average or peak? Maaaan, I wish someone would make a site that had only info like this on it for easy reference.

 

Cindy

6/22/13 2:12 AM
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D241
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fightharder - 
Chris27 - 
D241 - 

Ok guys, let me know if I'm alone in this or I'm not the only one....

 

 

But does it seem like every thread that is more business side related, ie ratings, bellator, zuffa, ppv buys, etc....

we always have MMALogic, Cindy O, and Chris27 posting?


So what?  So I post in threads about ratings, fights, fight disscussion, fight announcements, I post in all threads.

Am I suddenly not allowed to post in threads about ratings or something?  


Nope,

 

kind of a douchy thing to say. I think it is cool and admirable that you post in a lot of business related threads. Its a fucking important part of the whole sport and interesting as fuck considering the whole thing is still developing and growing so fast.

 

Having said that MMALogic and Cindy have a very pronounced bias. Its fair enough if they dont claim otherwise but Logic tries to present his very subjective opinions as objective reasoning. That is kind of a problem. I dont think you do the same but guilty by association can be one of the hassles of life.

 

 
By all means, point out the part that makes it "douchy".
 

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