UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Tim Kennedy Blasts Pay


6/26/13 1:25 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Porkchop
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/26/07
Posts: 9285
12SixElbow - 
Porkchop - 
ChaosOverkill - 

Here's another individual sport:

Men's Tennis and what the top 100 have earned already this year.

http://legacy.tennis.com/rankings/money_men.aspx

For those on Phones the Top guy is over 5 million and the 100th guy is over 170,000 in 6 months.

 

How MMA compares to Tennis overall earnings and profit ATP vs UFC I don't know but Tennis players seem to be comfortable and still strive to rise the ranks. But I also don't know what the 300th ranked guy makes either or how many at the bottom cannot live off of Tennis.


I would argue that fighters fight best when they are hungry and tennis players play best when they are comfortable.

They may both be individual sports, but try beating up some hungry killer from Brazil and going through a war when you have a sports car in the parking lot and enough money in the bank to live the rest of your life.

It's not comparable in that way and you are ignoring that.

You have a solid arguement at first glance, but it holds no water.

If that were true, we wouldn't have guys like AS who makes boatloads and keep fighting.

(Boxing wouldn't have guys like Mayweather, etc...)


Well that goes with what I was saying before about the guys who have been doing this since there was no money at all in it.

Anderson is one of those guys who fought forever just for the love of it. He's now fighting for his legacy. He could walk away any day now but he has to establish himself as the GOAT and he wants that more than anything.

Give guys who are only putting together short streaks before losing again and they will realize that they just can't be the best.

There is a big divide in guys who are elite and those who aren't in pay for a reason. Because those guys who remain at the top are unaffected by the money. As soon as it effects them, they lose and they get that hunger back.

Honestly though, I gotta head to bed. I'm too damn tired for this now.

This is an interesting talk that I'll come back to later.

Cheers.
6/26/13 1:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
caseharts
510 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/18/11
Posts: 19742
Pugilistics MMA
They should be paid more Phone Post
6/26/13 1:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CindyO
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/10/06
Posts: 22798
Porkchop - I get voted down in this place for speaking the truth. Wonder why I don't give a shit about green arrows? This is why.

I just voted you up because you're on point, IMO.

And Mace, are you saying that they guys getting 6k/6k are doing it... for the... money??? Really?

 

Cindy

6/26/13 1:45 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
the geek
302 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/07
Posts: 7569
the geek -

I think the salaries are healthy and livable. I think its cost of being a fighter that makes it difficult to survive.

I would love to see a "training salary" for fighters that would allow them to pay for their training camps (not living expenses like rent and car payments, that they would pay for with their purse like we pay with our wage). The benefit of this would hopefully be providing us with more entertaining fights as the fighters would be better prepared, in shape, skilled and healthy.

You would probably need to tier this based on the fighters purse. It wouldn't be fair to pay for a fighters camp who is making millions a fight, so say you're fight salary is less than $16,000 to show you would get your camp subsidized.

Just an idea

To poke holes in my own idea I will point out a few challenges.

1 - The monthly cost. I can't remember how many fighters at currently in the UFC but lets say there are 300. Multiply that by a projected monthly cost of 2,500 dollars per fighter and you have a monthly cost of 750,000 dollars (outside the current operational costs).

2 - How do you ensure that the money is spent on training? I guess you could have gyms and trainers bill the UFC directly do the money stays out of the fighters hands.

3 - How do you ensure that the gyms and trainers are submitting legit billing requests? I suppose the UFC could heavily audit the requests and have random drop ins as well as require minimum fighter training hours that are required in order to continue receiving funding.

Questions? Flaws? You like?

Cheers Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
js138
275 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/22/13
Posts: 419
Porkchop -
Macedawgg - 
Barbalos - 
Macedawgg - 
Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.

LOL.  This is professional prize fighting.  If you AREN'T in it for the money, you are in it for the wrong reasons.


Wrong. There are lots of other jobs you can make far more money at, much more easily. If you don't like this job, and you're doing it for years, you're a fool.

“Anybody who accepts that as a reality of the sport is sad and pathetic."  Tim Kennedy

Kennedy also took aim at MMA sites who push the UFC’s “propaganda” that fighters are overpaid, and claimed that he could make a better living as a firefighter, cop or even from working in a supermarket.


So why doesn't he go and do that? Oh, right, he wants to be rich and famous.... right?

If he actually wanted to fight for the sake of fighting, he wouldn't be saying these things at all. He'd only be thinking about the belt.

It gets to a point where if a guy has financial demands that exceed his ability to afford them, maybe he should look for a new fuckin job to support himself.

I'm not trying to shit on fighters in general, but these guys need to realize that no one is forcing them to be fighters. They want to be rich and famous and complaining wont get them that.
Best post in the entire thread. Vote up when I can. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 2:05 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
the geek
302 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/07
Posts: 7571
js138 -
Porkchop -
Macedawgg - 
Barbalos - 
Macedawgg - 
Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.

LOL.  This is professional prize fighting.  If you AREN'T in it for the money, you are in it for the wrong reasons.


Wrong. There are lots of other jobs you can make far more money at, much more easily. If you don't like this job, and you're doing it for years, you're a fool.

“Anybody who accepts that as a reality of the sport is sad and pathetic."  Tim Kennedy

Kennedy also took aim at MMA sites who push the UFC’s “propaganda” that fighters are overpaid, and claimed that he could make a better living as a firefighter, cop or even from working in a supermarket.


So why doesn't he go and do that? Oh, right, he wants to be rich and famous.... right?

If he actually wanted to fight for the sake of fighting, he wouldn't be saying these things at all. He'd only be thinking about the belt.

It gets to a point where if a guy has financial demands that exceed his ability to afford them, maybe he should look for a new fuckin job to support himself.

I'm not trying to shit on fighters in general, but these guys need to realize that no one is forcing them to be fighters. They want to be rich and famous and complaining wont get them that.
Best post in the entire thread. Vote up when I can. Phone Post 3.0
Yup, pretty damn good post by pork. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 2:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ManWithTheIronFists
59 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/12
Posts: 1056
All My Holes Overflowing With Jones' CREam - Tim Kennedy is a real goon, I may not agree with everything he says, but he's probably the most legit badass MMA fighter along with Brian Stann...<br /><br />Who would you choose over Tim Kennedy to help you out in a zombie type of survival situation?<br /><br />

Men like Stann and Kennedy have proven themselves on a different level, only a pussy would disagree.

Well Tim Kennedy is the one to call on a zombie apocalypse if you had to pick MMA fighters to back you up. He's an Army Ranger and they don't much more badass than that.
6/26/13 2:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
UGPTT_Rear Naked Chode
632 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/20/12
Posts: 2329
Porkchop - 
MMA Lives Here - 
Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.


Uhhh... wtf are you talking about?

Are pro fighters supposed to be missionaries or charity workers or something? Are there people who are actually this dumb?

The UFC is killing the pig right now and the vast majority of its fighters aren't reaping the benefits. They refuse to unionize; they prefer having this "locker room bonus" setup where they come off looking generous but have the worst pay ratio in US-based pro sports.

Kennedy is courageous to speak out about it. Good for him. Phone Post



You aren't seeing the big picture shithead.

If you want to be a fighter, that's fine. If you are the best in the world, then you should be compensated with big time money.

The MMA business model doesn't work when all the fighters are financially comfortable. Think about it for half a second.

In a perfect world everyone would get paid huge for the work they do but paying MMA fighters what they want to be paid will fuck up the whole system.

For most guys, part of being hungry is being broke.

Fighting isn't like other sports. Most fighters perform best with their backs against the wall.

It's a brutal sport and if you choose to ignore the truth of it then you are blind and that is your fault.

Not to sound like a dick, but wtf do you know about how a fighter performs best.? You mean to tell me that gsp, ando, bones and cain won't perform unless they're broke and hungry? Gtfo. If the ufc was making big money off of you I'm sure you would want a fair cut.
6/26/13 2:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 25170
Has he even fought in the UFC yet? Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 2:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
736 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 15343
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - Has he even fought in the UFC yet? Phone Post 3.0

Nope, he seems to need the stakes of winning to be as dire as possible it seems

6/26/13 2:49 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dubate
298 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/15/12
Posts: 751
If he can't figure out how to make it work on 70k per fight, maybe he shouldn't be fighting. He should also fight more often (3x in the past 2 years I think) that would probably help him out a bit financially. Lastly even if he only fights 2x a year he has the potential to make 140k without any bonuses or sponsorships. If he did it full time, there would probably be 3 fights for him a year. So Im not sure that all of the blame rests with the UFC. I mean, treat it like a career if you want it to be one otherwise don't get mad when your part time hobby doesn't support your lifestyle. Phone Post
6/26/13 2:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Anderson's BBC in my Goku
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/6/08
Posts: 25171
And if u can make better money at a supermarket why the fuck don't u work at one? Oh yeah, because it fuxking sucks and being a pro fighter is a dream job. People pay thousands of dollars to do what u get paid to do. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 3:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dubate
298 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/15/12
Posts: 752
Anderson's BBC in my Goku - And if u can make better money at a supermarket why the fuck don't u work at one? Oh yeah, because it fuxking sucks and being a pro fighter is a dream job. People pay thousands of dollars to do what u get paid to do. Phone Post 3.0
Yeah, but that's true for a lot of jobs. I'm not a big supporter of the "your job is awesome so you shouldn't complain about pay" line of thinking. However, you are completely right about Tim when he says that he could make more money being a firefighter. If it's about money, then go do what makes you the most money. If you are somewhere between the 15th & 20th ranked middleweight in the world and you are 3-2 over your last 5 fights (outside of the UFC at that) I think 70k per fight is pretty fair. Phone Post
6/26/13 3:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JimmersonzGlove
575 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/5/05
Posts: 31577

Did he get cut or something? Why come out with this?

6/26/13 3:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dubate
298 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/15/12
Posts: 754
MMA Lives Here -
JimmersonzGlove -

Did he get cut or something? Why come out with this?

He has balls, apparently Phone Post
20th ranked middleweight in the world who is fighting in the UFC for the first time after going 3&2 over his last 5 fights complaining that 70k per fight isn't enough. You're right, he definitely has balls. Phone Post
6/26/13 3:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ChaosOverkill
736 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/11
Posts: 15350
dubate - 
MMA Lives Here -
JimmersonzGlove -

Did he get cut or something? Why come out with this?

He has balls, apparently Phone Post
20th ranked middleweight in the world who is fighting in the UFC for the first time after going 3&2 over his last 5 fights complaining that 70k per fight isn't enough. You're right, he definitely has balls. Phone Post

yeah that's another aspect of this I don't get 70k is over ten times the minimum

6/26/13 3:49 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FloridaStriker
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/13/02
Posts: 8696
12SixElbow - 
FloridaStriker - you want money. Become a fucking doctor or get a real profesion. You want to be a fighter? Spartans slept on concrete floors.

This is why boxing doesnt exist anymore. Gave one pussy too much money and attention and found out he was a businessman instead of a boxer. If youre looking to get paid. Go to college like everyone else. You dont get micheal jordan money for deciding you want to punch ppl in the head on TV. Not unless youre conceptionally good at it. The only people complaining about money are mediocre athletes with more mouth than ability

1/10

Too much in your post to laugh at, its hard to know where to start.

 

Comparing modern day athletes to Ancient Greek Warriors is overdone and ridiculous.

Boxing does exist, and is doing EXTREMELY well.

 


riight.

Boxing is NOT doing extremely well...Floyd mayweather is doing EXTREMELY well. See how that works? Boxing doesn't exist fuckstick lol
6/26/13 3:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FloridaStriker
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/13/02
Posts: 8697
12SixElbow - 
Porkchop - 
ChaosOverkill - 

Here's another individual sport:

Men's Tennis and what the top 100 have earned already this year.

http://legacy.tennis.com/rankings/money_men.aspx

For those on Phones the Top guy is over 5 million and the 100th guy is over 170,000 in 6 months.

 

How MMA compares to Tennis overall earnings and profit ATP vs UFC I don't know but Tennis players seem to be comfortable and still strive to rise the ranks. But I also don't know what the 300th ranked guy makes either or how many at the bottom cannot live off of Tennis.


I would argue that fighters fight best when they are hungry and tennis players play best when they are comfortable.

They may both be individual sports, but try beating up some hungry killer from Brazil and going through a war when you have a sports car in the parking lot and enough money in the bank to live the rest of your life.

It's not comparable in that way and you are ignoring that.

You have a solid arguement at first glance, but it holds no water.

If that were true, we wouldn't have guys like AS who makes boatloads and keep fighting.

(Boxing wouldn't have guys like Mayweather, etc...)


the mayweeather thats broke every 2 years? That mayweather?

just stop now
6/26/13 3:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MT11
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/4/13
Posts: 228
MMA Lives Here -
Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.
Uhhh... wtf are you talking about?

Are pro fighters supposed to be missionaries or charity workers or something? Are there people who are actually this dumb?

The UFC is killing the pig right now and the vast majority of its fighters aren't reaping the benefits. They refuse to unionize; they prefer having this "locker room bonus" setup where they come off looking generous but have the worst pay ratio in US-based pro sports.

Kennedy is courageous to speak out about it. Good for him. Phone Post
Agreed Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 3:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheKidAintMine
165 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 14825
Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.
6/26/13 4:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
626 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 18159
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.

6/26/13 5:00 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mufasatheking
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/22/11
Posts: 1429
Kennedy isnt even in the top30, why would he be getting 7 figures a fight?
6/26/13 5:05 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Macedawgg
60 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 06/26/13 5:06 AM
Member Since: 7/2/03
Posts: 14745
CindyO - 
Porkchop - I get voted down in this place for speaking the truth. Wonder why I don't give a shit about green arrows? This is why.

I just voted you up because you're on point, IMO.

And Mace, are you saying that they guys getting 6k/6k are doing it... for the... money??? Really?

 

Cindy

Yes, really. 

Just like the boxer turned pro starting at $400 per show is motivated by money. 

The promoter, as you well know, is motivated first and foremost of money--so is the athlete.  You are not going to suggest that Zuffa is just in it for the "love of the sport" are you?  We are reminded repeatedly on this board that MMA is a "business."  Why is it that the athletes competing in a very dangerous sport with potentially debilitating long term results should treat it as any less? 

The geek has an interesting point about the training expenses being potentially out of whack.  To use boxing as a comparison, a promoter frequenty "invests" in the boxer-athlete by fronting not only all of those costs, but also living expenses and stipends as well.  The promoter can then recoup by building the fighter up through the ranks, and landing the fighter in high-profile televised events.  Of course, the "model" installed by Zuffa forecloses this possibility altogether--and thus, you see very little to none of this type of investment.  There is no ultimate payoff at the end--Zuffa claims it all by deeming themselves the only purveyor of "championship" MMA. 

 

The comments on this thread are predictable.  For those who read with regularity, it is blatantly obvious that this board is overrun with true shills.  No other explanation for the utterly hostile reaction towards anything pro-athlete. 

6/26/13 5:17 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dubate
298 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/15/12
Posts: 755
12SixElbow -
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.

Outside of the first fight on FOX, how many times have Cain, Silva, & GSP fought on a card that wasn't a PPV? Phone Post
6/26/13 6:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
slamming
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/28/08
Posts: 11255
dubate -
12SixElbow -
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.

Outside of the first fight on FOX, how many times have Cain, Silva, & GSP fought on a card that wasn't a PPV? Phone Post
Silva headlined 2 fight nights. Phone Post 3.0

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.