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UnderGround Forums >> Tim Kennedy Blasts Pay


6/26/13 5:00 AM
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Mufasatheking
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Kennedy isnt even in the top30, why would he be getting 7 figures a fight?
6/26/13 5:05 AM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 06/26/13 5:06 AM
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CindyO - 
Porkchop - I get voted down in this place for speaking the truth. Wonder why I don't give a shit about green arrows? This is why.

I just voted you up because you're on point, IMO.

And Mace, are you saying that they guys getting 6k/6k are doing it... for the... money??? Really?

 

Cindy

Yes, really. 

Just like the boxer turned pro starting at $400 per show is motivated by money. 

The promoter, as you well know, is motivated first and foremost of money--so is the athlete.  You are not going to suggest that Zuffa is just in it for the "love of the sport" are you?  We are reminded repeatedly on this board that MMA is a "business."  Why is it that the athletes competing in a very dangerous sport with potentially debilitating long term results should treat it as any less? 

The geek has an interesting point about the training expenses being potentially out of whack.  To use boxing as a comparison, a promoter frequenty "invests" in the boxer-athlete by fronting not only all of those costs, but also living expenses and stipends as well.  The promoter can then recoup by building the fighter up through the ranks, and landing the fighter in high-profile televised events.  Of course, the "model" installed by Zuffa forecloses this possibility altogether--and thus, you see very little to none of this type of investment.  There is no ultimate payoff at the end--Zuffa claims it all by deeming themselves the only purveyor of "championship" MMA. 

 

The comments on this thread are predictable.  For those who read with regularity, it is blatantly obvious that this board is overrun with true shills.  No other explanation for the utterly hostile reaction towards anything pro-athlete. 

6/26/13 5:17 AM
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dubate
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12SixElbow -
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.

Outside of the first fight on FOX, how many times have Cain, Silva, & GSP fought on a card that wasn't a PPV? Phone Post
6/26/13 6:38 AM
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slamming
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dubate -
12SixElbow -
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.

Outside of the first fight on FOX, how many times have Cain, Silva, & GSP fought on a card that wasn't a PPV? Phone Post
Silva headlined 2 fight nights. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 7:18 AM
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Pura Vida
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wow - some no name guy, who makes way more than he could make in any other sport at his experience level, wants more.
6/26/13 7:48 AM
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Dana Stern
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Tim Kennedy is a weird, complaining, dork. We all appreciate his service for our country but that's where it ends. MMA is still a very young sport, not to mention nobody is making you fight. You want to get rich do something else or get better. Nobody likes a complainer. Phone Post
6/26/13 7:48 AM
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Robert Gehres III
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12SixElbow -
armbarheelhook -  On average a full bird O-6 colonel roughly makes around $100K/yr. But you usually take about 20yrs to get there or more, which means you are a military lifer.

So in the end, Uncle Sam will be cutting you checks for the rest of your life when you put your full 20 in. Phone Post

Basically an Army Full Colonel (O-6) with 1 year service makes $90,436.08,

and with 45 years service $142,186.08.

I'll bet there are none in either category, so the average is somewhere in the middle.

Maybe around $128,000.

As an E6 it's roughly 58,000 a year. Not bad not great. I do fine on it but its just me and the wife. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 7:57 AM
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Dana Stern
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People act like Zuffa just puts in fights collects the cash and goes home. They've spent millions on growing this sport so guys can make a living. Before they came along there wasn't much of a living to be made. They spend money educating, getting bills passed, opening new markets, all that shit isn't free. They also employ a bunch of people who aren't fighters. Go back to before Zuffa came around and check what guys were making Tim, see if you'd like that pay better. Phone Post
6/26/13 8:32 AM
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NYjojo
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He has to be making 15-20k just on sponsorships due to his soldier status. His fight record is pretty unimpressive so far, he lost SF champ fight twice. Kennedy seems to be doing okay for his record. It must suck being the guy who's maybe ten years fighting pro and still only making 16k to win a fight in the UFC.

I buy UFC ppvs based on what fight I want to spend forty dollars on and then I might only buy the PPV if there's a co-main that I think is worth the additional 15. Kennedy and Rockhold are barely UFC on FX main card fighters.
6/26/13 8:38 AM
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JStrongMMA
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No...not another thread about fighter pay....no. Phone Post
6/26/13 8:40 AM
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Lex_o
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T shirt idea "I fight UFC and all i got was brain damage" Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 8:47 AM
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nostripewhite
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Why in the hell is he paying out so much for training costs?

You're going to tell me it costs you thirty grand to pay to train?

Bullshit, you're spending too much.

This guy makes up to seventy grand and has that high a percentage being taken away?

It ain't Zuffa that's fucking you friend. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 8:53 AM
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Lynchman
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12SixElbow - 
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.


Any time a champion, or any other fighter with a ppv cut, fights on TV, they come to an agreement on compensation for the loss of PPV money. Cain talked about it prior to fighting JDS on Fox.

Guys like Ben Henderson draw so little on PPV that it makes financial sense to be on TV. Putting Silva or GSP on TV would cost the UFC a fortune.

6/26/13 9:07 AM
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RicGillespie
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He's on a carry over contract from Strikeforce, yes? His manager is probably trying to renegotiate it and Zuffa is probably laughing in his face considering he's getting 70k, is not even a top ranked fighter and owns a mediocre record against mediocre competition.
6/26/13 9:23 AM
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TeamRenzo
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Macedawgg - 

http://placetobenation.com/exclusive-ufcs-kennedy-slams-fighter-pay/

“It’s a good thing I have another job because the UFC doesn’t pay very well.”

"Kennedy also took aim at MMA sites who push the UFC’s “propaganda” that fighters are overpaid, and claimed that he could make a better living as a firefighter, cop or even from working in a supermarket.

When asked if he thought that this was a reality of the sport, Kennedy said: “Anybody who accepts that as a reality of the sport is sad and pathetic. I hope this isn’t the reality of the sport, if it is I should probably go do something else, like empty trash cans. I’d make more money than I do now.”

 

Well, well, well. 

Kennedy must be inventing, and is a fraud of a source.

--The UG


The guy had no problem dodging bullets and IED's in some shit hole of a country for $60K a year but he is going to take a stand over MMA fighter pay...GTFO
6/26/13 9:39 AM
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jpm995
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Weird to complain about pay in an mma interview and not to your employer. Wrong forum assh@le should apply here. Not saying their under or over paid but on the plus side they get sponser money and money for training, on the minus is their expenses. Does 10% for nutrition sound high? In general mma fighters do MUCH better than boxers except for the superstars who do much worse. Believe me if Kennedy thaught he could make more collecting garbach he'd be doing it.
6/26/13 9:41 AM
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jimbonice
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This is the great Dana vs fighter debate. Who's going to win the argument? I'd hope the fighters. Phone Post
6/26/13 9:44 AM
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Card
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What's his other job.... the army?

6/26/13 9:56 AM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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Crashdt -
All My Holes Overflowing With Jones' CREam - 
ChaosOverkill - 

Don't lose your fight Tim or you will be doing those jobs full time


There are alternatives for Kennedy, such as Bellator and WSOF.



Yeah cause going over to WSOF worked out so well financially for Fitch...
No one said anything about a guaranteed win with a move to another org.

Obviously, there's gonna be a paycut, regardless of where you go outside the UFC. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 10:34 AM
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snobordr
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12SixElbow - 

Kennedy revealed that he was due around $55,000 to show up at UFC 162, with the purse potentially increasing to $70,000 with a win bonus – but that after the expenses of his camp, medicals and fight team, he would only pocket around $20,000, even before taxes. After the interview, Kennedy sent a detailed breakdown of how his fight purse would be divided up: 13% on gym fees, 12% for nutrition, 10% to his manager, 10% to his coach, 8% on his camp lodging,  3% for fight medicals and 3% on equipment. In total, that’s 59% of his fight purse before tax is deducted.


Fortunately for his tax bill, a lot of that stuff listed will be deductible.  He's not going to be paying 35% tax on that 20k.

6/26/13 10:39 AM
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goocher
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Bitching about pay and he hasn't even fought once in the UFC. Give me a break.
6/26/13 10:40 AM
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snobordr
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caseharts -  They should be paid more Phone Post

Agreed.

6/26/13 10:40 AM
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armbarheelhook
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Crashdt -
armbarheelhook -  I think its safe to say that Tim probably has made more money so far in his pro MMA fights than he has in his entire military career pay combined.

The military doesn't pay all that good unless you are an officer. People join for job security, see the world, signing bonus/college fund.
Anytime he was in-country he got paid hazzard pay, combat pay, dive pay, etc.. ontop of his base salary. Which isn't that big of a bonus really. Add in the fact that he was getting shot at and placed in immediate life threatening danger.

I would say he is doing pretty good for himself considering the other circumstances.

idk. Phone Post

He makes way more in the military than people think. And he doesnt just get those bonuses over seas, he gets them all the time. He gets jump pay, dive pay, hazardous duty pay, demo pay and a huge re-enlistment bonus of close to 85k. His special duty pay is over 1k a month ontop of his housing, BAS, and base pay. Plus he is getting paid to fight.

I work with SF every day, trust me none of them are hurting for money.
Wait.... so he is still in the military? I thought he got out and he took up MMA.

So if everything you say is above board, then he should have plenty of money.
I don't know what he his griping about then. Maybe he feels fighter pay should be like military pay/rank.? idk. Phone Post
6/26/13 10:43 AM
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TeamRenzo
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snobordr - 
12SixElbow - 

Kennedy revealed that he was due around $55,000 to show up at UFC 162, with the purse potentially increasing to $70,000 with a win bonus – but that after the expenses of his camp, medicals and fight team, he would only pocket around $20,000, even before taxes. After the interview, Kennedy sent a detailed breakdown of how his fight purse would be divided up: 13% on gym fees, 12% for nutrition, 10% to his manager, 10% to his coach, 8% on his camp lodging,  3% for fight medicals and 3% on equipment. In total, that’s 59% of his fight purse before tax is deducted.


Fortunately for his tax bill, a lot of that stuff listed will be deductible.  He's not going to be paying 35% tax on that 20k.


He pays his gym and coach a total of 23% that seems rather high.

Why is lodging and nutrition included in that breakdown? If he needs to travel to train then perhaps he should think about living in the same city that he trains in.

He should look at curbing his expenses rather than trying to complain about not getting paid enough.
6/26/13 10:43 AM
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Phisher
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

Horseshit. They get a fair share of the revenue that they generate.


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