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UnderGround Forums >> Tim Kennedy Blasts Pay


6/26/13 12:09 PM
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Bigyoutube - Come on people stop being morons , if you actually think fighters get payed enough money you are the reason the sport will be dead in 10-15 years , why the hell would aspiring athletes bother turning to MMA when it pays so pathetically at the highest level ... Look at what a rookie football, hockey, baseball, basketball player makes in his first pro year and try and say that fighters get payed enough , pathetic , I love this sport stop ruining its future with dumb sayings like , if you are in it for money you are in it for the wrong reasons , we all need money to live dumbasses , how the hell are you going to feed you're children without money! Phone Post 3.0

I think fighters deserve more, but comparing a average 3 fights a year pro fighter to the big four leagues Isnt proving anything.

NFL just signed a 27 billion tv deal for the next ten years, each team( 32 of them ) get around 85 million a year from the tv deal alone, not to mention merch, sponsership,and gate money from average 18 games( preseason/reg) with average 70k seat stadium, theoretically those stadiums could be empty and the teams could still make money.

Look at what they make? Oh I'm looking, and clearly see you cannot compare pay structure of a season based league( you know more, then 10 games a year ) to mma pay structure where the average fighter fights 3 times a year. And I'm being nice and comparing football who has the least amount of games, nhl/nba are over 80 games a year. Apple and mother fucken oranges.

What can you compare the pay structure too? Mma is pretty unique in that you can't really compare it to anything else, maybe boxing. Can zuffa pay them more, probably, can they pay them nfl money, unlikely, they just don't make that kind of money, it would cost you the same amount of money to buy zuffa as it would to buy ONE nfl team. There's money to squeez out of zuffa for the fighters, how much is the question, I love the fact fans want fighters to make big 4 league money, but they never will, not this generation, and I feel like the fighters aren't even asking for that kind of money, they just more, not millions, just more, and zuffa should pony up, not millions , just more you cheap bastards.
6/26/13 12:13 PM
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nostripewhite
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Comparing UFC to MLB/NHL/NBA/NFL on the basis of the 'best facing the best' is retarded.

Players in those sports can't choose to only play the worst five teams.

Boxing is a fair comparison. Poor fighters will take a payday fight even if it means a loss while top level guys will duck dangerous fighters to ensure a steady stream of victories.

Plus, why should all of these fighters feel every one of them deserves bug bucks? So they don't have to worry about money while fighting?

Why should a low level UFC fighter be anymore free from financial worries than previously mentioned supermarket clerks? Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 12:15 PM
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TopGrinder
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It's sad that no name hockey players in shitty markets are getting paid more than most top teir UFC guys.


Yah fighters are way underpaid while zuffa taking in millions Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 12:17 PM
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Elvis
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Man if he's paying out 59% of his earnings his problem isn't his pay but his money management.

I understand why fighters want more money, that's normal. What I don't understand is why they complain about 'ufc' pay when the ufc pays more than anyone else and the residual earnings from being a ufc star is far greater than any other org. Look what Forest did... used his smarts and wrote some books at the peak of his fighting career. Randy and Rampage got their movie opportunities from their exposure in the ufc. Phone Post
6/26/13 12:23 PM
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MrMead
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Bigyoutube - 20 grand annually is about if not less than a garbage mans yearly salary , really man do so research before talking Phone Post 3.0

Actually, you need to do your research. One google check showed me that in California garbage men make $42,000. In the lowest paying state of West Virginia, they make $22,000.
6/26/13 12:31 PM
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dabigguy
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Bigyoutube - Come on people stop being morons , if you actually think fighters get payed enough money you are the reason the sport will be dead in 10-15 years , why the hell would aspiring athletes bother turning to MMA when it pays so pathetically at the highest level ... Look at what a rookie football, hockey, baseball, basketball player makes in his first pro year and try and say that fighters get payed enough , pathetic , I love this sport stop ruining its future with dumb sayings like , if you are in it for money you are in it for the wrong reasons , we all need money to live dumbasses , how the hell are you going to feed you're children without money! Phone Post 3.0

buddy you're about the only only one here that I read so far that makes any sense. Once these guys make to the UFC it should be time to get paid!! I understand that in the small shows they don't and can't pay as well and maybe those shows are for the guys that see it as more of a hobby type thing. it would pay just enough to put a bit in the pocket and pay their training and fees (MAYBE lol). But once you've earned a spot in the UFC it should be a different game completely. They claim to have the elite of the elite fighters so pay them that way. The UFC isn't just making a bit of $$$ they're making a lot of millions. if they just paid the fighters 1% of the of the gate money they'd get paid properly. if the gate is 3 million thats $100,000 each fighter on average. thats 1 fuckin percent. it doesn't have to be split the same pay for each fighter but the minimum fighter salary should be 80-90 grand. that way after taxes and bills they still have 20-30 grand in the bank. That would not hurt the UFC and the guys who put their life on the line to entertain the public on TV. Like I said on the smaller venues where there's no TV involved and the shows are small then that's different. the base salary for a rookie hockey player is $800,000 per year. Fighters have to train every bit as much as the big pro games why do they deserve less to be beaten on 10 times as much.
the people on here bitching that the fighters chose this it's too bad for them....... are the people that either can't make it or they only watch from the couch and are lazy and jealeous. Ya I'd fight and train every day for $8000 and try to feed my family and have no benefits to keep them healthy...NOT!!!....... WAKE UP dumass
6/26/13 12:32 PM
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Lynchman
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Edited: 06/26/13 12:57 PM
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One thing really stands out: Between gym fees and coaching fees, Team Jackson/Winklejohn is getting 23% of his pay. That seems insanely high! He has to pay them both for being in the gym and for coaching him?

A while back, there was a multi-part series on Trevor Whitman and The Grudge Center. I am pretty sure Grudge guys pay a cut that covers Trevor's time and the gym itself.

If Rashad was paying Jackson and co 23% of his pay, no wonder.

The only time I really have problems, when the subject of pay comes up, is when a guy either lies or is selective. Volkman, for example, out and out lied about his pay for a 2 year span. All of his fights had publicly disclosed pay and he offered numbers that were lower than the SAC announced pay.

But if you are going to include all of the costs of being a fighter, you have to include all of the revenue.

So I have no problem with Tim saying "I should be making more money". But when Tim says, I am spending all of this money on my expenses and will only end up with 20k for this fight, that is simply not true. Either talk about all of your sponsor and seminar pay, or don't bring up the expenses.

Can't have it both ways.
6/26/13 12:36 PM
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SJax
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armbarheelhook -  I think its safe to say that Tim probably has made more money so far in his pro MMA fights than he has in his entire military career pay combined.

The military doesn't pay all that good unless you are an officer. People join for job security, see the world, signing bonus/college fund.
Anytime he was in-country he got paid hazzard pay, combat pay, dive pay, etc.. ontop of his base salary. Which isn't that big of a bonus really. Add in the fact that he was getting shot at and placed in immediate life threatening danger.

I would say he is doing pretty good for himself considering the other circumstances.

idk. Phone Post

Tim Kennedy's rank is E6 a staff sergeant. At 4 years of service his monthly salary would be $2819 not including haz duty pay or any other add ons such as housing or food pay. At 6 years $2935 monthly. Both would be significantly higher than one fight a year at his stated expenses not to mention that if he hits 20 years of service or gets offered a early retirement shortly before that gives him a good pension for life as well as cheap healthcare for life. Pay in a combat zone overseas is Federal tax free. Being in combat he would make more in the military than he would for two fights a year at that amount. Certainly won't argue your points about danger though. His gym fees seem kind of high as does his nutrition but I suppose he is calculating that on a yearly basis and it probably involves paying multiple places to train. Also the vast majority of his nutrition should be food and we all have to pay for that or at least all of us who work.
6/26/13 12:36 PM
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dabigguy
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TopGrinder - It's sad that no name hockey players in shitty markets are getting paid more than most top teir UFC guys.


Yah fighters are way underpaid while zuffa taking in millions Phone Post 3.0

You're right it's very sad!! Rookies and no name hockey players make no less than $800,000 per year. Top fighter don't make close to that. Maybe less than 1 percent do. and for all the fools that think sponsore pay a lot of money???? don't fuckin kid yourself. guys wouldn't be bitchin if that were the case
6/26/13 12:37 PM
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RockTheVote
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Nutrition? He didn't factor in the garbage mans food. Why should he get to factor in his own? Gym fees seem high, but you Gotta pay to train. I'm paying off my school loans, as they're the price I paid to learn my profession. If he's paying gym fees to learn his, what's the difference? Lodging during fight camp... I mean I understand all of these things cost money, but when a business man spends money to live he doesn't deduct that from what he reports he earns. You make money to pay for life. Phone Post
6/26/13 12:40 PM
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RockTheVote
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P.s. Hazard pay was $100 a month nine years ago when I went to Iraq. Phone Post
6/26/13 12:43 PM
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SJax
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RockTheVote -  P.s. Hazard pay was $100 a month nine years ago when I went to Iraq. Phone Post

It's rocketed up to $150 minimum and $240 max for enlisted $250 max for officers per month
6/26/13 12:43 PM
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nostripewhite
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KingofBJJ -

It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 

Silva makes much more than 200 K a fight.

If you're going to ignore the fact he has PPV points, why even post? Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 12:56 PM
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Lynchman
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dabigguy - 
TopGrinder - It's sad that no name hockey players in shitty markets are getting paid more than most top teir UFC guys.


Yah fighters are way underpaid while zuffa taking in millions Phone Post 3.0

You're right it's very sad!! Rookies and no name hockey players make no less than $800,000 per year. Top fighter don't make close to that. Maybe less than 1 percent do. and for all the fools that think sponsore pay a lot of money???? don't fuckin kid yourself. guys wouldn't be bitchin if that were the case

Pretty much every guy that gets a ppv cut makes more than that.

If we are assuming two fights a year, I would say 10-15% of the UFC fighters make more than that in a year.

For his last fight, Overeem made approx 1.3 million just in PPV money. Pretty much every big name and any lessar name that ends up headlining or fighting for a belt.
6/26/13 1:02 PM
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88samurai88
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$55k to fight for 15 minutes and hes complaining? Take home $20k sounds like he is getting raped in all his gym,food,etc fees.
Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:03 PM
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DMCA18
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dabigguy - 
Bigyoutube - Come on people stop being morons , if you actually think fighters get payed enough money you are the reason the sport will be dead in 10-15 years , why the hell would aspiring athletes bother turning to MMA when it pays so pathetically at the highest level ... Look at what a rookie football, hockey, baseball, basketball player makes in his first pro year and try and say that fighters get payed enough , pathetic , I love this sport stop ruining its future with dumb sayings like , if you are in it for money you are in it for the wrong reasons , we all need money to live dumbasses , how the hell are you going to feed you're children without money! Phone Post 3.0

buddy you're about the only only one here that I read so far that makes any sense. Once these guys make to the UFC it should be time to get paid!! I understand that in the small shows they don't and can't pay as well and maybe those shows are for the guys that see it as more of a hobby type thing. it would pay just enough to put a bit in the pocket and pay their training and fees (MAYBE lol). But once you've earned a spot in the UFC it should be a different game completely. They claim to have the elite of the elite fighters so pay them that way. The UFC isn't just making a bit of $$$ they're making a lot of millions. if they just paid the fighters 1% of the of the gate money they'd get paid properly. if the gate is 3 million thats $100,000 each fighter on average. thats 1 fuckin percent. it doesn't have to be split the same pay for each fighter but the minimum fighter salary should be 80-90 grand. that way after taxes and bills they still have 20-30 grand in the bank. That would not hurt the UFC and the guys who put their life on the line to entertain the public on TV. Like I said on the smaller venues where there's no TV involved and the shows are small then that's different. the base salary for a rookie hockey player is $800,000 per year. Fighters have to train every bit as much as the big pro games why do they deserve less to be beaten on 10 times as much.
the people on here bitching that the fighters chose this it's too bad for them....... are the people that either can't make it or they only watch from the couch and are lazy and jealeous. Ya I'd fight and train every day for $8000 and try to feed my family and have no benefits to keep them healthy...NOT!!!....... WAKE UP dumass

$100k a fighter on a card with 12 fights would be $2.4mil. That's quite a bit steeper than 1% of a $3mil gate. On that sort of pay scale you would need to pay the higher tier fighters significantly more money to reward their drawing power. If the first prelim fight is making 100k you would need to pay Anderson Silva or Jon Jones upwards of a 1-2 million to show. Any organization would fold pretty quick spending that kind of cash every two weeks unless ppv purchases increased tenfold.

6/26/13 1:05 PM
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TeamRenzo
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KingofBJJ - 

It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 


Pinko commie!

Just because I dont want to hear a fighter bitching about unfair for a career that he chose doesnt make me a "Zuffa shill".

The top dogs in any company make a shit load of money of the backs of the lower end employees. Why should it be any different in the UFC?

A question to those who advocate for fighters pay, do you do the same in other industries? Do you fight for fair pay for the 12 year olds that are making the brand new Nike's you wear? Look how much Nike paid Lebron James last year, is it fair that he makes $50M while factory workers make pennies an hour?

Who is in my corner fighting my boss to make sure I am fairly compensated?

I am so sick of hearing fighters whine about their pay. If it isnt enough then go do something else but stop acting like a cry baby, most people dont give a fuck.
6/26/13 1:10 PM
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Acidic
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88samurai88 - $55k to fight for 15 minutes and hes complaining? Take home $20k sounds like he is getting raped in all his gym,food,etc fees.
Phone Post 3.0

Dumbest post ever. Its 55k to train for 3 months. 6 days a week. Requires awhole lot of heart and dedication. Its not 15 minutes and you would think being ranked top 10 in the world would lead you to more money.

Afterall benchwarmer make 10 folds more for half the effort.
6/26/13 1:11 PM
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dubate
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nostripewhite -
KingofBJJ -

It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 

Silva makes much more than 200 K a fight.

If you're going to ignore the fact he has PPV points, why even post? Phone Post 3.0
It's progress, he used to post that no fighter other than Brock Lesnar made more than 400,000 dollars per fight and no one but the owners were making millions. I posted a link to the GSP quote where Georges stated he was making between four and five million dollars fight. Since then he no longer uses GSP as an example but still throws Silva's name out there to show that a great fighter only makes a couple hundred thousand dollars per fight. It's willful ignorance at its finest. Phone Post
6/26/13 1:13 PM
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sextoymagic
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Well he ignores sponsorship money, win bonus, and of the night bonus. So the pay is far better then he projects. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:15 PM
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dubate
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Acidic -
88samurai88 - $55k to fight for 15 minutes and hes complaining? Take home $20k sounds like he is getting raped in all his gym,food,etc fees.
Phone Post 3.0

Dumbest post ever. Its 55k to train for 3 months. 6 days a week. Requires awhole lot of heart and dedication. Its not 15 minutes and you would think being ranked top 10 in the world would lead you to more money.

Afterall benchwarmer make 10 folds more for half the effort.
Top 10? Is there actually a reputable website that has him ranked that high? He fights for the UFC and even they don't have him in their top 10. Phone Post
6/26/13 1:22 PM
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gabemadrid
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Bigyoutube - 20 grand annually is about if not less than a garbage mans yearly salary , really man do so research before talking Phone Post 3.0
Garbage men made about 43k a year before OT here in queens about a decade ago I'm sure they're up to more.

Cops on Long Island work 3 day shifts (12 hours each shift) and after 5 years make 125k a lot of what they see is DV and giving out traffic tickets. If there is OT available they could potentially make about 180. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:24 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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12SixElbow - 
TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

1. I think you're missing the point that MMA fighters in general are underpaid. The UFC is the biggest league in MMA, as was noted in this thread in most other individual sports, the top 100 guys are doing VERY well

2. Every fighter pays a percentage of winnings to gym / manager / trainers.

3. Champions don't only fight on PPV, and PPV sales aren't a gaurentee.


1. Actually I'm not missing the point. Without knowing exactly how much Zuffa's total revenues are and, this is important, how much Zuffa's total expenses are, how can you say the fighters are underpaid? Very very few people here know those numbers. Lots of arguments have been made as to how to get access to those numbers, but that's a fighter's union discussion for another thread.

What we do is this - Tim Kennedy is a smart guy who, along with his management team, negotiated a Strikeforce deal that he was comfortable with. If he didn't like the deal and the pay, then he shouldn't have signed the contract. It's not like a guy like Kennedy is short on options.

2. Just because it's standard practice doesn't mean it's a smart or fiscally responsible practice.

And how is it that you're not comfortable with the status quo for fighter pay, but you're comfortable with the status quo for gym/trainer fees? If it's about getting more money into the fighter's hands, then one way to do that is to negotiate better deals with gyms/trainers. You have to control those expenses better.

3. The article doesn't speak about champions, it just discusses the guys who make the most. It talks about how much GSP and Cain made, and not what their pay structure is. This is an important distinction. The article says GSP made $400k per fight. That's just not correct. He made far more than that because he got a cut of the PPV money.

6/26/13 1:24 PM
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DarkhorseRising
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Do what you love and get paid for it

OR

Go make slightly more money doing a job that you hate

Hmmmm...TK makes some great points Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:28 PM
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epwar
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Wow, Kennedy just signed his death notice given how vindictive Dana and Joe Silva are.  First loss and he is gone.  


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