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UnderGround Forums >> Tim Kennedy Blasts Pay


6/26/13 1:30 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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Lynchman - One thing really stands out: Between gym fees and coaching fees, Team Jackson/Winklejohn is getting 23% of his pay. That seems insanely high! He has to pay them both for being in the gym and for coaching him?

A while back, there was a multi-part series on Trevor Whitman and The Grudge Center. I am pretty sure Grudge guys pay a cut that covers Trevor's time and the gym itself.

If Rashad was paying Jackson and co 23% of his pay, no wonder.

The only time I really have problems, when the subject of pay comes up, is when a guy either lies or is selective. Volkman, for example, out and out lied about his pay for a 2 year span. All of his fights had publicly disclosed pay and he offered numbers that were lower than the SAC announced pay.

But if you are going to include all of the costs of being a fighter, you have to include all of the revenue.

So I have no problem with Tim saying "I should be making more money". But when Tim says, I am spending all of this money on my expenses and will only end up with 20k for this fight, that is simply not true. Either talk about all of your sponsor and seminar pay, or don't bring up the expenses.

Can't have it both ways.

Good post.
6/26/13 1:31 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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epwar - 

Wow, Kennedy just signed his death notice given how vindictive Dana and Joe Silva are.  First loss and he is gone.  


I don't think Kennedy even cares. It sounds like he doesn't even want to be in the UFC.
6/26/13 1:37 PM
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DarkhorseRising
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Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:43 PM
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dubate
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It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 

Silva makes much more than 200 K a fight.

If you're going to ignore the fact he has PPV points, why even post? Phone Post 3.0
That was a solid post. If you're going to nitpick one tiny part of it then why bother Phone Post
The post is about the UFC not sharing the wealth. If the person making the argument uses one of the UFC's top stars and gives a bullshit number and claims it as that star's per fight salary and someone calls them on it, how is that "nitpicking"? Phone Post
6/26/13 1:46 PM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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Phisher -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

Horseshit. They get a fair share of the revenue that they generate.

No they don't. If they did, talks of unionizing would have never happened in the first place.

They deserve to be paid more, end of story. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:48 PM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth -
Phisher -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

Horseshit. They get a fair share of the revenue that they generate.

No they don't. If they did, talks of unionizing would have never happened in the first place.

They deserve to be paid more, end of story. Phone Post 3.0
And if you're talking about the comment I made about NBA/NFL/MLB, I stand by that statement.

I don't give a shit who you are, you shouldn't be making over $20 mil to hit or throw a fucking ball. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:51 PM
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dubate
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dubate -
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It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 

Silva makes much more than 200 K a fight.

If you're going to ignore the fact he has PPV points, why even post? Phone Post 3.0
That was a solid post. If you're going to nitpick one tiny part of it then why bother Phone Post
The post is about the UFC not sharing the wealth. If the person making the argument uses one of the UFC's top stars and gives a bullshit number and claims it as that star's per fight salary and someone calls them on it, how is that "nitpicking"? Phone Post
Anderson does get $200K per fight. That's his salary and has been consistently for a couple of years now. You're nitpicking by bringing up the shady world of PPV points, locker room bonuses etc Phone Post
Do you actually think that Silva makes less than a million per fight? Phone Post
6/26/13 1:57 PM
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BTT-RyannVonDoom
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth -
Phisher -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

Horseshit. They get a fair share of the revenue that they generate.

No they don't. If they did, talks of unionizing would have never happened in the first place.

They deserve to be paid more, end of story. Phone Post 3.0
He's saying that nfl/nhl/nba players get their fair share of what they generate. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 1:58 PM
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gabemadrid
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Jon Jones was in it for the money as was Fedor. Both have said that was their motivating factor in even starting MMA. They are all in it for the money.

They just start making so little and don't really complain because they are chasing the next level. In their minds they have 5 year plans that involve millions of dollars sponsorships and movies and tv shows etc.

No one starts MMA and says I want to just fight and not make any real money. Everyone wants to be the champ even be a title contender it all has financial implications. These guys are people they want to hype themselves up and make some money so that their kids can be afforded all the opportunities that they missed.

BJ Penn is one of the very few that went into fighting even though his family already had wealth.

It sucks fighters don't get paid more so that if they fail they have a little financial cushion. Also so that it attracts more new fighters.

However Tim Kennedy should maybe fight a few times in the UFC and try to build his name up get some fans etc. He should create some worth in the organization to show his value before complaining about your new bosses.

Who knows maybe they planned on building him up to be a star and make a lot more money. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 2:05 PM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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Don't like da pay? Get out da way. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 2:08 PM
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UGCTT_CloudStrife
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dubate -
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KingofBJJ -

It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 

Silva makes much more than 200 K a fight.

If you're going to ignore the fact he has PPV points, why even post? Phone Post 3.0
That was a solid post. If you're going to nitpick one tiny part of it then why bother Phone Post
The post is about the UFC not sharing the wealth. If the person making the argument uses one of the UFC's top stars and gives a bullshit number and claims it as that star's per fight salary and someone calls them on it, how is that "nitpicking"? Phone Post
Anderson does get $200K per fight. That's his salary and has been consistently for a couple of years now. You're nitpicking by bringing up the shady world of PPV points, locker room bonuses etc Phone Post

I'm not arguing this topic one way or the other but to say Anderson only makes $200k per fight is just plain stupid. We don't know the actual number but it is a lot higher than $200k. Probably in the neighborhood of 20-25 times that amount.

6/26/13 2:16 PM
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dubate
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dubate -
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KingofBJJ -

It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 

Silva makes much more than 200 K a fight.

If you're going to ignore the fact he has PPV points, why even post? Phone Post 3.0
That was a solid post. If you're going to nitpick one tiny part of it then why bother Phone Post
The post is about the UFC not sharing the wealth. If the person making the argument uses one of the UFC's top stars and gives a bullshit number and claims it as that star's per fight salary and someone calls them on it, how is that "nitpicking"? Phone Post
Anderson does get $200K per fight. That's his salary and has been consistently for a couple of years now. You're nitpicking by bringing up the shady world of PPV points, locker room bonuses etc Phone Post

I'm not arguing this topic one way or the other but to say Anderson only makes $200k per fight is just plain stupid. We don't know the actual number but it is a lot higher than $200k. Probably in the neighborhood of 20-25 times that amount.

Well Dana said that no one makes more money than Anderson these days and GSP says he makes between 4&5 million so yes probably a little bit more than $200,000 per fight. Phone Post
6/26/13 2:24 PM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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MRXC -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - 
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth -
Phisher -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

Horseshit. They get a fair share of the revenue that they generate.

No they don't. If they did, talks of unionizing would have never happened in the first place.

They deserve to be paid more, end of story. Phone Post 3.0
And if you're talking about the comment I made about NBA/NFL/MLB, I stand by that statement.

I don't give a shit who you are, you shouldn't be making over $20 mil to hit or throw a fucking ball. Phone Post 3.0

They get a fair share for the revenue they generate.

I wouldn't do my job if I didn't make as much as I was worth. I don't make the same money as everyone else in my industry, I make what I'm worth, in comparison to the revenue I generate for my clients.

If I made no money for my clients, I would make no money for myself. If Justin Verlander made no money for the Detroit Tigers, he would make no money for himself. Your job in the work environment is to be paid a favorable amount of revenue share in comparison to the revenue you generate.

The moral of the story: Don't get your economics lessons from a job at Wal-Mart, those people only have jobs because it's still to expensive to employ actual robots. Generating income for your employer is the only way to have quantitative leverage in regards to your pay grade.
I don't need a damn lesson on this stuff.

$20 mil to hit and throw a ball is fucking ridiculous. That kind of money could be going towards charities, but instead, we're giving it to athletes who don't need it. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 2:29 PM
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dubate
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Edited: 06/26/13 2:30 PM
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MRXC - Re dubate: You know that private enterprise has no legal obligation to divulge any information on anything regarding their business operations right? So what Dana 'says' and what the truth is can and most likely is very different in a lot of cases (I'm not saying this one in particular).

Dana's 'word' in a company that doesn't owe the public, a union or shareholders 'Full, True & Plain Disclosure of Facts' is really not something that you can take any stock in. I'm not saying he's a liar, I'm just saying he doesn't have to be honest either.

I understand that but he'd be facing a major problem if he announced that no one makes more money than Silva and because of Georges statements, everyone knows how much GSP makes. So yes legally it's not a binding statement but if it wasn't true Silva who just re-signed his contract would have made it so. Phone Post

6/26/13 2:39 PM
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth
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MRXC -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - 
MRXC -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - 
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth -
Phisher -
VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

Horseshit. They get a fair share of the revenue that they generate.

No they don't. If they did, talks of unionizing would have never happened in the first place.

They deserve to be paid more, end of story. Phone Post 3.0
And if you're talking about the comment I made about NBA/NFL/MLB, I stand by that statement.

I don't give a shit who you are, you shouldn't be making over $20 mil to hit or throw a fucking ball. Phone Post 3.0

They get a fair share for the revenue they generate.

I wouldn't do my job if I didn't make as much as I was worth. I don't make the same money as everyone else in my industry, I make what I'm worth, in comparison to the revenue I generate for my clients.

If I made no money for my clients, I would make no money for myself. If Justin Verlander made no money for the Detroit Tigers, he would make no money for himself. Your job in the work environment is to be paid a favorable amount of revenue share in comparison to the revenue you generate.

The moral of the story: Don't get your economics lessons from a job at Wal-Mart, those people only have jobs because it's still to expensive to employ actual robots. Generating income for your employer is the only way to have quantitative leverage in regards to your pay grade.
I don't need a damn lesson on this stuff.

$20 mil to hit and throw a ball is fucking ridiculous. That kind of money could be going towards charities, but instead, we're giving it to athletes who don't need it. Phone Post 3.0

I do agree that money (after it has been earned by those who earned it) could be used for better means. Charities, scholarships, building jobs and infrastructure in emerging countries etc is a much better use of money. But it is not my job to tell other people where their moral compass should point them.

But I do agree with you. Helping others after your own family is taken care of is vital, at least in regards to my own principles.
Glad you're not being a dick, friend.

These players are paid fairly from how much they generate, no doubt. I just believe it's just too much money for one damn person who isn't doing anything but playing a game.

But as I said before, if we were to do compare the pay/earned fractions of Zuffa and these other leagues, they simply wouldn't be equal.

These fighters deserve more money. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 3:14 PM
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muay_jitsu
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wait what!? I could have been a garbage man and made 60K base after taxes and expenses for being a mid tier garbage man while being allowed to train all the time. I should have been a garbage man.... And this society needs a serious revamp when it comes to athletes... garbage men actually do a service as does the military police, firefighters and so on(not saying those 2 are the same by the way) yet they get paid crap...but we always here over privileged athletes crying.
6/26/13 3:15 PM
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Marketing guy
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You cannot compare a undercard "rookie" UFC fighter's pay to that of an NHL rookie per year. The amount of performance time is DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. Do it by performance to get an accurate comparison. Hockey rookies play 82 games per year. If you break it down per game, that is $9,756.00 per game. Seems pretty similar to me. Do they get a win bonus?
6/26/13 3:35 PM
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TeamRenzo
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KingofBJJ - 

It's funny that everytime the money issue comes up the Zuffa nuthuggers come to the rescue and then later act like no one whines about money in the UFC.

The point of the whining is that the UFC is making millions from PPV and is not sharing the wealth.  That is why Zuffa hates unions, because they would be forced to pay an adequate salary.

Many UFC fighters only fight twice a year, maybe three if they are lucky.  Most don't make $20k a fight.  Think about it.  There are Burger King Managers making more than most UFC fighters!

Yet Zuffa is making money off of their backs.  Yes it is Zuffa's business, but you know what the fighters can live without the UFC, but the UFC cannot live without fighters.

With a union, these fighters could all go on strike and the UFC would be powerless to do anything to them without a costly court battle.

Anderson Silva, the longest reigning champion in the UFC only gets $200k per fight.  Mayweather gets nearly $30 million.  Heck just last week a twenty something pro fighter just won a championship belt and made $1 million.

Everyone wants to compare MMA to boxing when it is convenient, when it is not then they say you can't compare them.

 

 


Pinko commie!

Just because I dont want to hear a fighter bitching about unfair for a career that he chose doesnt make me a "Zuffa shill".

The top dogs in any company make a shit load of money of the backs of the lower end employees. Why should it be any different in the UFC?

A question to those who advocate for fighters pay, do you do the same in other industries? Do you fight for fair pay for the 12 year olds that are making the brand new Nike's you wear? Look how much Nike paid Lebron James last year, is it fair that he makes $50M while factory workers make pennies an hour?

Who is in my corner fighting my boss to make sure I am fairly compensated?

I am so sick of hearing fighters whine about their pay. If it isnt enough then go do something else but stop acting like a cry baby, most people dont give a fuck.
Are you an MMA fan? Because these UFC fighters aren't getting paid enough. Zuffa's raking in millions and paying guys 8K. If you're going to bag people out for calling for fairer pay then what's your angle? Or are you just shillin like a villain Phone Post

Of course I am a fan of MMA...are you? I dont have time for BS like "I could make more money emptying trash cans" that is a shit statement and everyone knows it. If not get a job with the sanitation dept.

Please define "enough" from your statement. Who gets to decide what is "enough"

Should fighters that live in NYC be paid more than someone who lives in Arizona? The cost of living is certainly higher in NYC...

Do you really think Zuffa is making millions of that fighter who is being paid $8K?

Fighters pay their managers 10% for a reason and that reason is to try to get their client as much money as possible sponsorship, seminars, etc.

If Zuffa puts you on the main card your sponsorship money goes up. If a manager can't get his client paid then fire the manager the choice is theirs.

6/26/13 3:36 PM
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TeamRenzo
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If people want to compare salaries from other sports, not that I think it is relevant then look at how much Tiger Woods made last year in PGA salary/winnings vs endorsements.
6/26/13 3:39 PM
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Marketing guy
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MRXC - 
Marketing guy - You cannot compare a undercard "rookie" UFC fighter's pay to that of an NHL rookie per year. The amount of performance time is DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT. Do it by performance to get an accurate comparison. Hockey rookies play 82 games per year. If you break it down per game, that is $9,756.00 per game. Seems pretty similar to me. Do they get a win bonus?

This was the same point I was making. You summarized it much better than me. I'm so damn long winded.

Thanks. I'm long winded myself but I'm not much of a writer.
6/26/13 3:41 PM
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Marketing guy
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TeamRenzo - If people want to compare salaries from other sports, not that I think it is relevant then look at how much Tiger Woods made last year in PGA salary/winnings vs endorsements.

the lowest paid guy at the U. S. Open makes about 10k
6/26/13 3:42 PM
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Thacommish
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"Now I eagerly await the masses of 16-25 year olds that have never held a career-level full time job to tell me how I know nothing and poor mma fighters have it so rough. Guess what guys: If the only skill you have to offer the workforce is the ability to beat up other guys, and you are "meh" at it...don't come crying to me that you're making McDonalds employee level money...because you're the mma equivalent of McDonalds level talent at that point."

I cant believe someone that considers himself above 16-25 year olds made such a horrible emotionally inspired connection between ufc fighters and mcdonalds employees.
6/26/13 3:42 PM
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Marketing guy
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Marketing guy - 
TeamRenzo - If people want to compare salaries from other sports, not that I think it is relevant then look at how much Tiger Woods made last year in PGA salary/winnings vs endorsements.

the lowest paid guy at the U. S. Open makes about 10k

and I meant a golfer not the janitor
6/26/13 3:48 PM
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Marketing guy
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Minimum salary in the MLB is 490,000. at 162 games per season that breaks down to 3024.69 per game. I have a feeling this will all look about the same across the board. The issue is more that fighters fight a lot less per year than the average athlete in other sports can compete.
6/26/13 3:49 PM
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Marketing guy
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If a fighter could compete 10x per year with a 10k show 10k win scenerio I don't think we would be arguing here

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