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UnderGround Forums >> Tim Kennedy Blasts Pay


6/26/13 6:23 PM
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Marketing guy
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bjjchris - 50 k to step in the cage for 15 mins, sounds reasonable for a top 20 mw like Tim....y don't you enlighten us on your u.s. army pay since your throwing all these numbers around? TIM might make 50k for the year to risk his life with machine guns and rpg's. I'd say 50k jus to.show for a cage fight is alright..I.think your bitching about the wrong employer Mr Kennedy!

According to the Army website a military police sergeant makes 29,380. Definitely worse than a UFC fighter.
6/26/13 6:24 PM
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Thatsjustlikeyouropionman
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You get paid to fight... Phone Post
6/26/13 6:31 PM
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CindyO
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Macedawgg - 
CindyO - 
Porkchop - I get voted down in this place for speaking the truth. Wonder why I don't give a shit about green arrows? This is why.

I just voted you up because you're on point, IMO.

And Mace, are you saying that they guys getting 6k/6k are doing it... for the... money??? Really?

 

Cindy

Yes, really. 

Just like the boxer turned pro starting at $400 per show is motivated by money. 

The promoter, as you well know, is motivated first and foremost of money--so is the athlete.  You are not going to suggest that Zuffa is just in it for the "love of the sport" are you?  We are reminded repeatedly on this board that MMA is a "business."  Why is it that the athletes competing in a very dangerous sport with potentially debilitating long term results should treat it as any less? 

The geek has an interesting point about the training expenses being potentially out of whack.  To use boxing as a comparison, a promoter frequenty "invests" in the boxer-athlete by fronting not only all of those costs, but also living expenses and stipends as well.  The promoter can then recoup by building the fighter up through the ranks, and landing the fighter in high-profile televised events.  Of course, the "model" installed by Zuffa forecloses this possibility altogether--and thus, you see very little to none of this type of investment.  There is no ultimate payoff at the end--Zuffa claims it all by deeming themselves the only purveyor of "championship" MMA. 

 

The comments on this thread are predictable.  For those who read with regularity, it is blatantly obvious that this board is overrun with true shills.  No other explanation for the utterly hostile reaction towards anything pro-athlete. 


Ah, yessssss.... someone is a shill when they speak to the fact these are grown ass men and women signing contracts, that they openly go into with both eyes open and representation, only to try to act like indentured servants or slaves later! LOL   Yep!!! Shills, I tell ya!

So you're saying they do it for the money- even the 6k/6k guys. Just wanted you to verify your comment for MMA LIVES HERE:)

Zuffa is a business run by MMA fans who love it and know how to make money. You either want to be a part of that or you don't. Sign a contract or don't. Fight for them or don't. And in Tim Kennedy's case, it really doesn't matter because he isn't relevant and they don't owe him shit. He has never fought for the UFC yet he wants to bitch about what he's getting paid, based on a contract he signed with another promotion, which is for more than he's worth! LOL@ that shit, too:)

 

Cindy

6/26/13 6:37 PM
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CindyO
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TheKidAintMine - Several points:

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

First, if Kennedy is so unhappy about the pay in the UFC, then why does he want to fight for them?

LOL! I know, right???

If Kennedy and his management team called up Dana or Lorenzo tomorrow and said, "Hey we don't like the way you guys are running your business. We don't think you're paying us enough and we don't want to be a part of your company anymore." I'm sure Zuffa and Team Kennedy could work out a solution whereby Tim gets released from his contract so that he can more money elsewhere.

Bingo!

Kennedy isn't GSP or Cain or JDS, I'm pretty sure Zuffa would let him go if he really wanted out. Kennedy should test the market and see how much Bellator or WSOF or One FC is willing to pay. If it's more than Zuffa, then good for him.

LOL! If he thinks the UFC, where he has never fought, doesn't pay good enough well he'll just love Bellator and WSOF!

Secondly, why is Kennedy paying a percentage of his winnings to gym fees and his coaches? Shouldn't those be flat fees? You're telling me every time he fights his gym gets a percentage? And if he wins, his gym gets even more money. And on top of that, his coaches also get a cut? Why doesn't he just negotiate a flat fee per training camp that is independent of how much he makes?

Things that make you go hmmmmm...

And lastly, that article is a little disingenuous. They talk about GSP and Cain's pay, but there's no mention at all about their cut of the PPV money.

Well, that would require the media do some work to gather facts and that's not as fun as just phoning it in the drama.

 

Cindy

6/26/13 6:38 PM
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Thatsjustlikeyouropionman
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CindyO -
Macedawgg - 
CindyO - 
Porkchop - I get voted down in this place for speaking the truth. Wonder why I don't give a shit about green arrows? This is why.

I just voted you up because you're on point, IMO.

And Mace, are you saying that they guys getting 6k/6k are doing it... for the... money??? Really?

 

Cindy

Yes, really. 

Just like the boxer turned pro starting at $400 per show is motivated by money. 

The promoter, as you well know, is motivated first and foremost of money--so is the athlete.  You are not going to suggest that Zuffa is just in it for the "love of the sport" are you?  We are reminded repeatedly on this board that MMA is a "business."  Why is it that the athletes competing in a very dangerous sport with potentially debilitating long term results should treat it as any less? 

The geek has an interesting point about the training expenses being potentially out of whack.  To use boxing as a comparison, a promoter frequenty "invests" in the boxer-athlete by fronting not only all of those costs, but also living expenses and stipends as well.  The promoter can then recoup by building the fighter up through the ranks, and landing the fighter in high-profile televised events.  Of course, the "model" installed by Zuffa forecloses this possibility altogether--and thus, you see very little to none of this type of investment.  There is no ultimate payoff at the end--Zuffa claims it all by deeming themselves the only purveyor of "championship" MMA. 

 

The comments on this thread are predictable.  For those who read with regularity, it is blatantly obvious that this board is overrun with true shills.  No other explanation for the utterly hostile reaction towards anything pro-athlete. 


Ah, yessssss.... someone is a shill when they speak to the fact these are grown ass men and women signing contracts, that they openly go into with both eyes open and representation, only to try to act like indentured servants or slaves later! LOL   Yep!!! Shills, I tell ya!

So you're saying they do it for the money- even the 6k/6k guys. Just wanted you to verify your comment for MMA LIVES HERE:)

Zuffa is a business run by MMA fans who love it and know how to make money. You either want to be a part of that or you don't. Sign a contract or don't. Fight for them or don't. And in Tim Kennedy's case, it really doesn't matter because he isn't relevant and they don't owe him shit. He has never fought for the UFC yet he wants to bitch about what he's getting paid, based on a contract he signed with another promotion, which is for more than he's worth! LOL@ that shit, too:)

 

Cindy

Cindy isn't always right but when she is... Phone Post
6/26/13 6:41 PM
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UGCTT_CloudStrife
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Thacommish - 
CindyO - 
MMA Lives Here - 
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Porkchop - I get voted down in this place for speaking the truth. Wonder why I don't give a shit about green arrows? This is why.

I just voted you up because you're on point, IMO.

And Mace, are you saying that they guys getting 6k/6k are doing it... for the... money??? Really?

 

Cindy

No one in this thread has even come close to suggesting the fighters are only in it for the money.

If you want to act like "they should be getting paid more" = "they're only in it for the money" that's your call, but it's nonsense. Phone Post

No one in this thread has even come close to suggesting the fighters are only in it for the money.
 
The I guess its a dayum good thing I didn't either, huh, Drama Llama??? But Mace did make this post that I was responding to therefore I hope you don't mind if I wait for HIS reply to my question:
 
 
From: Macedawgg 6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile
Posted: 19 hours ago
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Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.

LOL.  This is professional prize fighting.  If you AREN'T in it for the money, you are in it for the wrong reasons.

 

If you want to act like "they should be getting paid more" = "they're only in it for the money" that's your call, but it's nonsense.

LOL! I don't want to "act like they should be paid more" because when a grown-ass man or woman signs a contract who am I to second guess or disagree with them??????????????????????????

 

Cindy

 

 

Who are you to second guess or disagree with a grown ass man that signs a contract..iuno but you sure seem to think you can second guess or disagree with his opinion on said contract. You know you dont have to completely 100% be happy and fully agree to every contract you sign. Its possible, this might be a stretch for you to understand, for a grown ass man to sign a contract and not 100% be happy with every detail about it. Who are you to question this?

It's possible for that to be the case, but that would be his own damn fault and his own damn problem, not the person that offered the contract. If he doesn't like the contract, then publicly bash it after signing it, he looks like the fool for signing it. Nobody forced him to do this, it is his own choice, and if he is that upset then it was the wrong choice. 

6/26/13 6:41 PM
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CindyO
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MARC BULGER - 
Macedawgg -
Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.

LOL.  This is professional prize fighting.  If you AREN'T in it for the money, you are in it for the wrong reasons.

Dude your a straight moran. Phone Post

Ha! Mace is awesome and means well and the UG is lucky to have him, IMO. One of my favorites, actually. Good guy.

 

Cindy

6/26/13 6:43 PM
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RocketsRedglare
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If he is of more value in the labor market than what he is making, then he should take that other opportunity. If he's not, then do something or learn something to command more clout. If you don't or can't do this,no point in bitching about it, because they don't need you.
6/26/13 6:47 PM
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BobbyDigital420
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UGCTT_Charles Bronsons Mustache - Goodnight sweet Prince, we hardly new the.
Just thinking this. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 6:50 PM
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Haadogei
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The UG - hates low fighter pay while stealing PPVs on their momma's computer in the basement.
6/26/13 6:58 PM
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CindyO
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wvugreenlantern - Allow me to break down this ridiculous sympathy plea by Kennedy.

Kennedy broke down his pay: He said his show money for UFC 162 was $55,000, but that he would only clear around $20,000 before taxes and after expenses: 13% on gym fees 12% for nutrition 10% to his manager 10% to his coach 8% on his camp lodging 3% for fight medicals 3% on equipment TOTAL 59% For one fight. Barring injuries, any fighter is going to fight at LEAST twice a year and usually 3-4. Let's use "2" just to be very conservative with his income. Let's also, like he prefers to do, ignore all sponsor money, locker room bonuses, and missed performance incentives. (FotN, SotN, KOotN) Because if my copmany offers to pay me an additional $10k this month for selling X amount of widgets, and I fall short...I can't turn around and say "They never offer me more money..." Perform well, get paid well. Welcome to the real world.

Let's compare to a guy making 55k a year, a solid middle income "office" job salary. This job will often require a large investment in education as well, but we'll disregard that for now. Tim cries that: 12% of his money goes to "nutrition" I don't know about you guys, but I'm 30...and in the real world...every single person has to spend money on "nutrition." If you make 50k a year and have an average food budget you're looking at doing at least $500/month on groceries and "nutrition" and that's certainly not eating a regiment of organic healthy yet expensive foods. Tim cries next that he must spend 8% on "camp lodging" Now he could mean a couple of things by this, supplying rooms for his "camp" to stay when he travels to fight, OR his own cost of living while at camp. Either way, 8% is about $4400. Over a decent 12 week camp, that's $1400/month in His "manager" makes 10%. Cry me a river, in my line of work my manager makes about 20% override on my income. I also don't get paid to practice my job all year, and only have to perform it once. I hate when fighters try to garner sympathy by crying about real job comparisons. Go run a trash truck then kennedy...oh..you aren't? Gee, funny that... Now let's factor in the UFC/Dana angle of "Who the hell is buying PPVs or tuning into Fox to watch Tim Kennedy?" Look I could set here and bash every single number, the bottom line is this: The guy is essentially whining and comparing himself to a gruelling thankless job where you literally collect the filth and waste of other people starting at 4am every morning of your life. Tim will easily clear 6 figures this year.



While his "gym, coach, manager" etc will also make quite a bit of bank on his behalf. The ufc holds free seminars for fighters all of the time to show how they can cut out having a manager. Management is optional. If you can't comprehend contracts enough to negotiate your own, then don't cry about the small cut of cash you have to pay yours to keep your income rolling in.

Now I eagerly await the masses of 16-25 year olds that have never held a career-level full time job to tell me how I know nothing and poor mma fighters have it so rough. Guess what guys: If the only skill you have to offer the workforce is the ability to beat up other guys, and you are "meh" at it...don't come crying to me that you're making McDonalds employee level money...because you're the mma equivalent of McDonalds level talent at that point. The guy making fries at the McDonalds doesn't get to demand his fair share of the corporate profits, you know why?


Because there's another guy tomorrow waiting to cook those fries just as well for $8/hr. Tim Kennedy is just one of those guys that's been doing "fries" long enough to become a shift manager and suddenly he thinks he should own the restaurant.

Voted up for using common sense and logic.

 

Cindy

6/26/13 7:03 PM
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NFABeeJay
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Gates of Janus - i wished i made a couple grand for 25 mins work max three nights out of the year. sign me up.
To bad that's not the case! Try a 6 week camp putting your body through hell and hardcore diet! Fight Night is the cakewalk part of the process. Phone Post 3.0
6/26/13 7:23 PM
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Jive Turkey
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VITRTOR Yellow'd in my mouth - Fighters aren't overpaid. NFL/NBA/MLB players are. Phone Post 3.0

This kind of reasoning rustles my jimmies.

The money is there for NFL/NBA/MLB players. Someone is going to pocket it. By your logic, you want the owners to have it instead. Think about it for a second before bitching
6/26/13 7:26 PM
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goldenboyart
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Tim Kennedy is right on point with his argument that the UFC doesn't pay enough.

in the NFL and other places the Team wners have to shared their revenue with the players. Not exactly sure the % but it's something like 55% to owners and 45% to the players.

It should be that way in the UFC.Dana and the Bro's will STILL make MILLIONS and the fighter would get a hugh bump in pay.

Narrow the roster down a bit and pay the ones that you do have damn good money and I bet you would see a hell of a lot more fight finishes.

This is the uFC, the upper most elite Company in all of MMA. It's "The Show". It's a fucking disgrace to have a fighter making something like $3 and $3.

If you fight for the UFC you should at least be able to train full time and not have to have another job.

Minimum salary should be $50 Grand per fight.

You would see a lot more fighters fighting for the life making better money like $50 K instaed of a paultry total of $6K


As far as Kennedy goes, I agree with his argument that pay needs to be better but he certainly did embellish his figures to bolster his argument.

Thing is he didn't NEED to do this. The argument speasks for itself and didn't need his embellishments to add to it.
6/26/13 7:26 PM
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Jive Turkey
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And was there some sort of pay nosedive that took place between these fighters deciding they want to fight and them joining the UFC? They know just as well as everyone else what the contracts are like. If you don't think the average fighters make enough money, pick a different career route. You knew what you were getting into
6/26/13 7:27 PM
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pulsar
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It's SO heartwarming watching folks fighting the 'good fight' on behalf of Multi-millionaires to further expand their margins.

Such dedication. It warms the heart. Truly.

6/26/13 7:27 PM
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Jive Turkey
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goldenboyart - Tim Kennedy is right on point with his argument that the UFC doesn't pay enough.

in the NFL and other places the Team wners have to shared their revenue with the players. Not exactly sure the % but it's something like 55% to owners and 45% to the players.

It should be that way in the UFC.Dana and the Bro's will STILL make MILLIONS and the fighter would get a hugh bump in pay.

Narrow the roster down a bit and pay the ones that you do have damn good money and I bet you would see a hell of a lot more fight finishes.

This is the uFC, the upper most elite Company in all of MMA. It's "The Show". It's a fucking disgrace to have a fighter making something like $3 and $3.

If you fight for the UFC you should at least be able to train full time and not have to have another job.

Minimum salary should be $50 Grand per fight.

You would see a lot more fighters fighting for the life making better money like $50 K instaed of a paultry total of $6K


As far as Kennedy goes, I agree with his argument that pay needs to be better but he certainly did embellish his figures to bolster his argument.

Thing is he didn't NEED to do this. The argument speasks for itself and didn't need his embellishments to add to it.

Kennedy is bitching about $50,000
6/26/13 7:40 PM
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Macedawgg
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CindyO - 
MARC BULGER - 
Macedawgg -
Porkchop - MMA does pay shitty. It's not like other MMA orgs pay more than the UFC.

If you aren't in it for the glory and you are just in it for money, you are fighting for the wrong reasons.

LOL.  This is professional prize fighting.  If you AREN'T in it for the money, you are in it for the wrong reasons.

Dude your a straight moran. Phone Post

Ha! Mace is awesome and means well and the UG is lucky to have him, IMO. One of my favorites, actually. Good guy.

 

Cindy


Thanks Cindy!  No, you aren't one of the shills--you are just a very loyal friend with a point of view.  That is fine. 

The shills--the dozens and dozens of other anonymous sorts you see on threads like these!

6/26/13 7:42 PM
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sevr1
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"Kennedy revealed that he was due around $55,000 to show up at UFC 162, with the purse potentially increasing to $70,000 with a win bonus – but that after the expenses of his camp, medicals and fight team, he would only pocket around $20,000, even before taxes. After the interview, Kennedy sent a detailed breakdown of how his fight purse would be divided up: 13% on gym fees, 12% for nutrition, 10% to his manager, 10% to his coach, 8% on his camp lodging, 3% for fight medicals and 3% on equipment. In total, that’s 59% of his fight purse before tax is deducted."


Well, he could go somewhere with much lower gym fees (AKA I think is at 5%), management fees (AKA again at 5%), spend less on nutrition, negotiate a better deal with his manager (or fire him if he's a competent businessman), why is he paying "gym fees" and another 10% to his coach?, can he find a teammate with an extra room for lodging for less than 8%? If a camp is two months, that should not cost him more than $1500.


What it really sounds like is that Tim is getting nickel and dimed by everyone he's working with. The reason all these people are doing percentages is that once Tim gets more money, so do they. Taking him for more cash.
6/26/13 7:45 PM
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sevr1
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Oh, and Tim should make more money.
6/26/13 7:50 PM
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Filo_Beto
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Marketing guy - 
Thacommish - 
Filo_Beto - 
Thacommish - "Now I eagerly await the masses of 16-25 year olds that have never held a career-level full time job to tell me how I know nothing and poor mma fighters have it so rough. Guess what guys: If the only skill you have to offer the workforce is the ability to beat up other guys, and you are "meh" at it...don't come crying to me that you're making McDonalds employee level money...because you're the mma equivalent of McDonalds level talent at that point."

I cant believe someone that considers himself above 16-25 year olds made such a horrible emotionally inspired connection between ufc fighters and mcdonalds employees.

Your logic is severely misguided. If your only talent in the workforce is hitting a baseball in mlb and you are "meh" about it don't come crying to me. Oh wait the league minimum in baseball is 400k.

If you notice im quoting someone else in the first paragraph. Thats not my logic i think its severely misguided also. Mostly because he is comparing the number 1 brand and top quality mma org to mcdonalds and saying that they should be compensated equally.
wvugreenlantern is the guy whom i quoted. I just didnt want to quote his entire frat paragraph with me

Minimum salary in the MLB is 490,000. at 162 games per season that breaks down to 3024.69 per game. I have a feeling this will all look about the same across the board. The issue is more that fighters fight a lot less per year than the average athlete in other sports can compete.

Wow , that is some amazing mathematics. I don't know what worse , comparing what a baseball player does for a living to the most physically demanding sport in the world bar none or thinking a fighter sits on his couch up until the day he has to fight.
6/26/13 7:57 PM
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niveky144
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well, didn't bother to read 10 pages worth of shit on this, but to my thinking...don't most fighters at least fight twice a year, and i have seen plenty with at least 3 fights a year. That is assuming in the big dog org like the UFC. In that scenario that would mean most fighters, if at least at Kennedy's payout level, would make around double what he listed and possibly triple or more depending on exactly how many fights they have, if they win/lose, get sub/ko/fight of the night. If he is basing his figures on one fight, does that mean he only plans to fight once a year. If so, he must not really be interested in beating higher caliber competition and getting a bigger paycheck...or at least that would be my assumption.
6/26/13 7:57 PM
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Filo_Beto
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pulsar - 

God I love these threads... An opportunity for the sociopathic 'fans' to express how little they care for the blood sweat and tears shed by what they say to be their heroes.

As someone who used to be called a UFC shill with abandon on here, the lengths folks will go to back the Fertita's pocketing millions why fighters can barely pay for expenses... Is sickening to the core.

No fighters - no UFC.


Thread should be closed after this.

Based on many of these threads either people a. trolling. b. paid zuffa posters or C. Are so miserable in their own lives heaven forbid someone make more money than them.

I can't believe the so called fans on this site crucifying a man that is a professional mma fighter who wants to be paid more to support his family. How dare him.

The bottom line is zuffa and even dana are swimming in money based of the blood sweat and tears (not to mention brain cells) of these fighters. They just need to spread the love a little more. When the president of the company has enough money to blow 200k in gambling in a single night than there is something wrong with this picture.
6/26/13 8:01 PM
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Macedawgg
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niveky144 - well, didn't bother to read 10 pages worth of shit on this, but to my thinking...don't most fighters at least fight twice a year, and i have seen plenty with at least 3 fights a year. That is assuming in the big dog org like the UFC. In that scenario that would mean most fighters, if at least at Kennedy's payout level, would make around double what he listed and possibly triple or more depending on exactly how many fights they have, if they win/lose, get sub/ko/fight of the night. If he is basing his figures on one fight, does that mean he only plans to fight once a year. If so, he must not really be interested in beating higher caliber competition and getting a bigger paycheck...or at least that would be my assumption.

The average UFC fighter fights 1.6 times per year, is exclusive, and has duties to Zuffa that extend beyond performance in bouts.

6/26/13 8:01 PM
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Filo_Beto
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pulsar - 

It's SO heartwarming watching folks fighting the 'good fight' on behalf of Multi-millionaires to further expand their margins.

Such dedication. It warms the heart. Truly.


LOLOLOL.. NICE.

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