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UnderGround Forums >> How Do You Feel About HEADBUTTS???


6/30/13 3:16 PM
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Haulport
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Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 

Winston Wolf - barbaric.Haulport u dont care about the fighters as long as ur entertained


You don't seem to understand how physics works. You should become a Commissioner because they don't get it either.



 



A series of headbutts are FAR LESS DANGEROUS than a 10 round boxing match or an NFL game on Sunday. Do you comprehend what that means?


bulllll shittttttt.Says who ? you ? Id rather play a game of football or box then get my head butted by some dude standing over me.Look at the old mma fights with headbuts They were bloody messes and seriuously stfu with ur comments about comprehending.U sound like a pompous condescending keyboard wish he knew it all What study is that baised on ? ur opinion is not a study .or proven fact.UGTBFKM an NFL game is more dangerous than a series of head buts .if u could show me astudy that proves that Ill eat crow until then it is ur opinion and a bad one at that

Name one death that was caused by a headbutt.

While you are googling that, I will rattle off a list in the THOUSANDS of football and boxing related deaths and paralysis.

There's your study Mr. Know-It-All....

6/30/13 3:28 PM
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Bucephalus
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Rules that had the biggest influence on REAL fighting techniques...

1. Gloves. First ingredient to shifting the momentum of the game from jiu jitsu dominance to more striking and wrestling bias. They made certain submissions far more difficult to execute and allowed striking without as much concern for broken hands. It benefitted both standup striking/boxing and wresters who lacked submission skills (ground and pound).

2. No knees on the ground. It seemed to help the jiu jitsu guys at first but the real benefactors have been wrestlers. They can shoot for takedowns constantly without any concern about one of the best striking counters to a takedown that exists. Compared to a real fight.. no knees on the ground is the most influential rule change that has occurred (I consider gloves more about regulations than rules).

Headbutts aren't nearly as influential as some presume. They mostly helped the jiu jitsu guys, but not nearly as much as gloves helped the strikers and ground and pounders or no knees on the ground helped the wrestlers execute more double and single leg takedowns.

I prefer old school valetudo... no gloves with knees and headbutts. It forces a more technical game and keeps the realism intact. I support rules regarding things that prevent stalling like fence grabbing etc. Or things like fish hooking , oil checking, hair pulling, etc. because, well, those are straight up bitch moves.
6/30/13 3:28 PM
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Smith1234
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I could actually get behind headbutts to a non grounded opponent perhaps.

I've seen some videos of standing headbutt KOs that take talent to execute.

But i agree with Winston's general point that using your arms to hold the arms of the opponent and slamming your head into his is not skilled fighting.

As far as elbows, they are harder to land then headbutts and the elbow is generally accepted as a body part to strike with. Using your own head to hit with is, to me, legit fighting but not want I want to see in the sport.

I do lump headbutts in with groin shots and small joint manipulation and throat shots. It is the least offensive on the spectrum of these things (which is why this is an interesting discussion) but headbutts are more like these attacks than elbows to me. Phone Post 3.0
6/30/13 3:50 PM
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Bucephalus
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Edited: 06/30/13 3:52 PM
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Smith1234 - But i agree with Winston's general point that using your arms to hold the arms of the opponent and slamming your head into his is not skilled fighting.
There are a dozen similar arguments for allowing any striking from within someone's guard. It was the original mentality behind the old RINGS events that didn't allow any strikes to the head on the ground.. to force a more technical ground game... Only it didn't force more technique - it drastically reduced it. Techniques develop under the pressure of necessity. There was a time that the fence was the absolute worst place to be on the ground. Now fighters try to get near it to use it stand. Allowing headbutts is precisely what would force the development of techniques to counter them. The mentality of banning techniques as a form of defense is absolutely ludicrous. It's fighting. MMA is comprised of the largest single group of martial arts geniuses the world has ever known. I guarantee that if headbutts were allowed, there would be effective defenses developed and/or they wouldn't be used as much as most presume.
6/30/13 3:52 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Haulport - 
Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 

Winston Wolf - barbaric.Haulport u dont care about the fighters as long as ur entertained


You don't seem to understand how physics works. You should become a Commissioner because they don't get it either.



 



A series of headbutts are FAR LESS DANGEROUS than a 10 round boxing match or an NFL game on Sunday. Do you comprehend what that means?


bulllll shittttttt.Says who ? you ? Id rather play a game of football or box then get my head butted by some dude standing over me.Look at the old mma fights with headbuts They were bloody messes and seriuously stfu with ur comments about comprehending.U sound like a pompous condescending keyboard wish he knew it all What study is that baised on ? ur opinion is not a study .or proven fact.UGTBFKM an NFL game is more dangerous than a series of head buts .if u could show me astudy that proves that Ill eat crow until then it is ur opinion and a bad one at that

Name one death that was caused by a headbutt.

While you are googling that, I will rattle off a list in the THOUSANDS of football and boxing related deaths and paralysis.

There's your study Mr. Know-It-All....


first off there has been 10000000000000 more football and boxing events than full fledged Vale Tudo How about u compare 10 football games against 10 Vale Tudo fights with headbuts ? u cant compare 1000000000 football games to 30 Vale Tudo events
6/30/13 3:54 PM
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Winston Wolf
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soccer kicks also are barbaric and will never ever be allowed in MMA rules in the USA .I dont make the rules But they were made for good reason.
6/30/13 3:58 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Haulport - 
Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 

Winston Wolf - barbaric.Haulport u dont care about the fighters as long as ur entertained


You don't seem to understand how physics works. You should become a Commissioner because they don't get it either.



 



A series of headbutts are FAR LESS DANGEROUS than a 10 round boxing match or an NFL game on Sunday. Do you comprehend what that means?


bulllll shittttttt.Says who ? you ? Id rather play a game of football or box then get my head butted by some dude standing over me.Look at the old mma fights with headbuts They were bloody messes and seriuously stfu with ur comments about comprehending.U sound like a pompous condescending keyboard wish he knew it all What study is that baised on ? ur opinion is not a study .or proven fact.UGTBFKM an NFL game is more dangerous than a series of head buts .if u could show me astudy that proves that Ill eat crow until then it is ur opinion and a bad one at that

Name one death that was caused by a headbutt.

While you are googling that, I will rattle off a list in the THOUSANDS of football and boxing related deaths and paralysis.

There's your study Mr. Know-It-All....


lets see how many football games have been played ?? u have college,nfl,hs,little leagueand u want tocompare that with 30 Vale Tudo events >Only fair comparison is compare equal amount of events for both.Of course theres way more football injuries theres a billion times more games played than MMA w headbuts Seriously lmao @ you Look at the few fights with headbuts and the damage its done .Guess what there is zero injuries with headbuts last few years cause theres no events using them lmao @ u comparing a billion football games with 30 MMA Vale Tudo events and seeing which has more injuries
6/30/13 4:22 PM
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Haulport
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I don't think you realize it (not shocking) but you are LOLing @ the fact that YOU have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims and you are arguing MY POINT.......................

Man, you are too easy sometimes....

6/30/13 4:25 PM
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Haulport
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Bucephalus - 
Smith1234 - But i agree with Winston's general point that using your arms to hold the arms of the opponent and slamming your head into his is not skilled fighting.
There are a dozen similar arguments for allowing any striking from within someone's guard. It was the original mentality behind the old RINGS events that didn't allow any strikes to the head on the ground.. to force a more technical ground game... Only it didn't force more technique - it drastically reduced it. Techniques develop under the pressure of necessity. There was a time that the fence was the absolute worst place to be on the ground. Now fighters try to get near it to use it stand. Allowing headbutts is precisely what would force the development of techniques to counter them. The mentality of banning techniques as a form of defense is absolutely ludicrous. It's fighting. MMA is comprised of the largest single group of martial arts geniuses the world has ever known. I guarantee that if headbutts were allowed, there would be effective defenses developed and/or they wouldn't be used as much as most presume.

VTFU

6/30/13 4:27 PM
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Haulport
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Winston Wolf - soccer kicks also are barbaric and will never ever be allowed in MMA rules in the USA .I dont make the rules But they were made for good reason.

LOL @ "good reason"!!!

A bunch of completely unknowledgable Boxing Commission bureaucrats who HATED mma came up with completely stupid rules just to create the pretense that they had a clue and you consider that a good reason!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Government tupes LOVE sheep like you!!!

I think Keith Kizer just jizzed his pants reading your post!

 

6/30/13 4:29 PM
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Jacinto
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Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 
Winston Wolf - Haulport can make thread after thread about headbuts He can write the commision etc It will never ever be legal in sanctioned MMA and with good reason Its barbaric,takes no skill and is not entertaining

I gave up discussing things with the Commission a long time ago. Right after I realized that NOTHING will ever change and they couldn't care less about the sport (well at least Kizer, the Fertittas and a bunch of others). I have some good buddies who are judges and no one thinks anything is going to change.

I was just curious how people feel about them because NHB always gets ~15% of the vote on my ruleset polls and I'm a PRIDE rules + elbows guy but I think I would like to see headbutts in the mix. So I was curious is that was a completely out of the loop feeling. Apparently it isn't (64% of those polled like them).

And PLEASE STOP with your "unskilled/barbaric/street fight" BULLSHIT. You claim that every technique you don't like requires no skill. That is ignorant beyond belief and too stupid for words for someone who trained with Matt Serra, so just give it up...............


ya ? like what ? name one technique i said was barbaric besides head buts ? There is zero skill in headbuts It is just someone willing to possible bust their own head open to possible bust there opponents head open.You mean to tell me their is skill ? if so tell me the skill involved.Ill give u foot stomps require some skill ( not much more but more ) What other technique did i claim to be barbaric ??? ??????????????????????????????????????????????

lol at effective headbutts requiring no skill. If someone has good standup and defense they can throw their own or counter them. If someone has enough wrestling or bjj skill they should be able to sub or sweep someone that is throwing them then.
6/30/13 4:30 PM
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Haulport
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62% to 38% for Headbutts.

I genuinely did not expect this. I would have EASILY thought it would have been the reverse...

6/30/13 4:33 PM
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Haulport
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Jacinto - 
Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 
Winston Wolf - Haulport can make thread after thread about headbuts He can write the commision etc It will never ever be legal in sanctioned MMA and with good reason Its barbaric,takes no skill and is not entertaining

I gave up discussing things with the Commission a long time ago. Right after I realized that NOTHING will ever change and they couldn't care less about the sport (well at least Kizer, the Fertittas and a bunch of others). I have some good buddies who are judges and no one thinks anything is going to change.

I was just curious how people feel about them because NHB always gets ~15% of the vote on my ruleset polls and I'm a PRIDE rules + elbows guy but I think I would like to see headbutts in the mix. So I was curious is that was a completely out of the loop feeling. Apparently it isn't (64% of those polled like them).

And PLEASE STOP with your "unskilled/barbaric/street fight" BULLSHIT. You claim that every technique you don't like requires no skill. That is ignorant beyond belief and too stupid for words for someone who trained with Matt Serra, so just give it up...............


ya ? like what ? name one technique i said was barbaric besides head buts ? There is zero skill in headbuts It is just someone willing to possible bust their own head open to possible bust there opponents head open.You mean to tell me their is skill ? if so tell me the skill involved.Ill give u foot stomps require some skill ( not much more but more ) What other technique did i claim to be barbaric ??? ??????????????????????????????????????????????

lol at effective headbutts requiring no skill. If someone has good standup and defense they can throw their own or counter them. If someone has enough wrestling or bjj skill they should be able to sub or sweep someone that is throwing them then.

hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Is this who I think it is? Perhaps a gentleman that I work with? Who has great skill at in the graphic arts?

6/30/13 4:35 PM
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Winston Wolf
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lets see NFL has 15 games on average Each team plays about 40 guys a game Thats about 600 players per week If u want to add college its another 5000 plus HS maybe 10000 and that is just 1 week And u want to compare that with 30 ValeTudo events LMAO
6/30/13 4:35 PM
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andyman011
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UGCTT Captain America - I'm in favor of banning eye gouges, fish hooks, and nut shots only. Everything else should be fair game, in my opinion. Phone Post 3.0
You like small joint manipulation? Everyone would have years off for 10 broken fingers Phone Post
6/30/13 4:37 PM
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Smith1234
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The difference between headbutts and other ground strikes is you can use both your arms to neutralize the bottom guys ability to defend strikes. Then strike with you head.

Any other strike you have to keep one arm free to strike, rather than using it to get arm control. So you only have one other arm to control te bottom guy. That is harder to do with one arm than two. Takes much more skill.

Elbows require more skill than headbutts. That I know for sure. Phone Post 3.0
6/30/13 4:38 PM
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Smith1234
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Punches on ground require more skill than headbutts too.

Much more complex positioning and control is required to land punches and elbows than headbutts. Phone Post 3.0
6/30/13 4:38 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Haulport - 

I don't think you realize it (not shocking) but you are LOLing @ the fact that YOU have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims and you are arguing MY POINT.......................

Man, you are too easy sometimes....


evidence baised on what study ? ur opinion ? like i said each week theres 15000 football players playing acriss the nation in college hs and NFL plus CFL etc and u want to compare the injuries of some 15-20000 per week against 30 events w headbuts Lets see1 year of football about 1 million kids nflers etc play and ur going to compare injuries against 20 fights ? u have no brain
6/30/13 4:42 PM
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Smith1234
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Haulport -

62% to 38% for Headbutts.

I genuinely did not expect this. I would have EASILY thought it would have been the reverse...

I agree with that. I am surprised at this poll result. I chalk it up to an influx of noobs trying to be old school :-)

Five years ago it would have been reversed. Phone Post 3.0
6/30/13 4:42 PM
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Haulport
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Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 

I don't think you realize it (not shocking) but you are LOLing @ the fact that YOU have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims and you are arguing MY POINT.......................

Man, you are too easy sometimes....


evidence baised on what study ? ur opinion ? like i said each week theres 15000 football players playing acriss the nation in college hs and NFL plus CFL etc and u want to compare the injuries of some 15-20000 per week against 30 events w headbuts Lets see1 year of football about 1 million kids nflers etc play and ur going to compare injuries against 20 fights ? u have no brain

Where is your evidence you dope?!?!? LOL!!

Dude you are hilarious. There is NOTHING better than when a complete moron is so clueless that they keep jabbering and DO NOT GET IT AT ALL and then accuse someone of being brainless!

You are awesome! Don't ever change!

(I know you are incapable of changing anyway but I just wanted to say that)

6/30/13 4:43 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Haulport u cant even understand thats theres been literally millions if not billions of more people playing football than people who have done vale tudo w headbuts so u can not compare How many fights have u seen w headbuts ?honestly without googling i bet u cant name 20
6/30/13 4:43 PM
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Haulport
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andyman011 - 
UGCTT Captain America - I'm in favor of banning eye gouges, fish hooks, and nut shots only. Everything else should be fair game, in my opinion. Phone Post 3.0
You like small joint manipulation? Everyone would have years off for 10 broken fingers Phone Post

LOL, good catch. I am against small joint manipulation. Hahaha

6/30/13 4:52 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Haulport - 
Winston Wolf - 
Haulport - 

I don't think you realize it (not shocking) but you are LOLing @ the fact that YOU have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims and you are arguing MY POINT.......................

Man, you are too easy sometimes....


evidence baised on what study ? ur opinion ? like i said each week theres 15000 football players playing acriss the nation in college hs and NFL plus CFL etc and u want to compare the injuries of some 15-20000 per week against 30 events w headbuts Lets see1 year of football about 1 million kids nflers etc play and ur going to compare injuries against 20 fights ? u have no brain

Where is your evidence you dope?!?!? LOL!!

Dude you are hilarious. There is NOTHING better than when a complete moron is so clueless that they keep jabbering and DO NOT GET IT AT ALL and then accuse someone of being brainless!

You are awesome! Don't ever change!

(I know you are incapable of changing anyway but I just wanted to say that)


fucking imbecil theres millions of people who play football each year.You cant compare that to 20 Vale Tudo fights with headbuts.I can name lotsand lots of football games u canrt even name 20 fights with headbuts without googling it and u want to compare the injury rate millions against 30 events
6/30/13 4:54 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Edited: 06/30/13 6:48 PM
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where ur evidence??? I never said i had any i just said u cant compare multi millions of people who play football each year alone with only 20-30 fights with headbuts Not enough sample size with the headbuts McFly
6/30/13 5:00 PM
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6ULDV8
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Fighting.  The dudes should be fighting.

 

Every local in Hong Kong I try to introduce to MMA spends half the time during a card asking me how this isn't just a little bit gay.

 

I've screamed at my wife to leave the room when she openly and honestly asked me if I'd want to rub up on another like that against the cage, looking ready to make love with each other.

 

Headbutts would be fucking awesome.  They used to have them, and whole tournaments in a night, maybe 4 fights back to back.

 

Imagine that these days?

 


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