UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> TRT Not Helping


6/30/13 11:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 642
 
Over the last few years, testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has become one of the most controversial issues in MMA. In the time since Chael Sonnen originally popped for elevated testosterone at UFC 117, more and more UFC fighters have gotten aboard the TRT train. Most have faced heavy criticism for what fans perceived as a form of legalized cheating. With several years of use now past, let's take a look back at how fighters using TRT have fared at the highest levels of MMA competition.

Chael Sonnen (5-4)

The three-time title challenger is probably the most prolific TRT user in the UFC. Sonnen single-handedly brought TRT to the forefront of MMA discussion when he failed his UFC 117 post-fight drug test with a T:E ratio of 16:1 (well over the CSAC's legal limit). While that was when the news of his treatment first became public, during his suspension appeal process it was revealed that he'd been taking supplementary testosterone since 2008. So, throughout his UFC run, starting with the loss Demian Maia, he's been undergoing TRT.

Vitor Belfort (2-0)

The former Light Heavyweight champion has had a banner year in 2013. In just 6 months he's knocked out two Middleweight contenders with devastating, highlight reel headkicks. Unfortunately for Belfort, both wins have been marred by the cloud of his TRT use. His exemption was first confirmed* before his UFC On FX 7 fight against Bisping in Brazil. He was once again approved by the Brazilian commission at UFC On FX 8. His TRT use is particularly controversial as he failed a post-fight drug test for steroid use at Pride 32 in a losing effort against Dan Henderson.

*In his fight prior to FX 7, Belfort faced Jon Jones at UFC 152. Just before the event the acting commission confirmed that one fighter had applied and been approved for a TRT exemption, but never named the applicant. No other confirmed TRT recipient appeared on the card.

Dan Henderson (4-4)

Hendo been competing with the help of TRT longer than any other fighter in the UFC. He confirmed after the Sonnen fiasco that he's been receiving exemptions since his Pride days. Following the merger with the UFC, Henderson has gone an 8-4 with huge wins over the likes of Michael Bisping, Fedor Emelianenko, and Mauricio Rua. However, 4 of his 12 TRT fights were for the now defunct Strikeforce organization.

Quinton Jackson (0-2)

As the former Light heavyweight champ and one of very few UFC fighters to break the 1M PPV buyrate mark, Jackson was once one of the promotion's biggest stars. Following his UFC 135 title fight loss to Jon Jones he was all set to fight Ryan Bader in Japan. Then a knee-injury threw a wrench into his training plans and he was advised to undergo TRT as part his recovery. Both his fights while using TRT (the fight against Bader and his final UFC fight against Glover Teixeira) are widely regarded as among his worst performances.

Forrest Griffin (1-0)

Griffin had been the UFC's posterboy since his historic fight against Stephan Bonnar at the TUF 1 Finale. But after winning the 205 lb. strap years later, he'd gone a disappointing 3-2. Coming off the knock out loss to Shogun Rua, he picked up TRT while training for his rubber match against Tito Ortiz in what would become his final fight in the UFC.

Frank Mir (0-2)

Going into UFC 146, the former Heavyweight champ was riding an impressive three-fight win streak. Most recently, he'd broken the arm of Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira to defeat the Pride legend for the second time. He was set to face fellow former champ Cain Velasquez before Alistair Overeem's failed test got Mir promoted to contender status. Shortly after the news of Reem being pulled from the event, the NSAC confirmed that Mir would be competing with a TRT exemption for the first time in his career. He was knocked out by Junior Dos Santos in that fight and lost a one-sided decision to Daniel Cormier in his next Octagon appearance.

Todd Duffee (1-1)

Todd Duffee made a big impression with MMA fans in his UFC debut with a record 7 second knockout over Tim Hague at UFC 102. By his second UFC fight, he'd been granted a TUE by the NSAC. Despite dominating the first two rounds of his fight against Mike Russow, he was knocked out in the final round and subsequently cut from the promotion after some words with Dana White. He finally returned at UFC 155 and knocked out Philip De Fries in the first round.

Nate Marquardt (2-1)

Only days before UFC on Versus 6, in what was supposed to be his Welterweight debut, Marquardt was released from the UFC in probably the most surprising cut this side of Jon Fitch. In his previous bout against Dan Miller at UFC 128, he'd been granted a conditional exemption for TRT by the New Jersey commission. Marquardt was required by NJ to get his testosterone levels down to a certain point following the Miller fight. When he was unable to, the Pennsylvania commission refused to license him to fight Anthony Johnson. Having completely destroyed their main event for the show, the UFC cut him from the roster. it came out later that Marquardt had been on TRT since before his fight against Rousimar Palhares at UFC Fight Night 22. Following his release, he stopped his TRT treatment before returning to action in Strikeforce a year later.

Shane Roller (0-3)

The Lightweight sports the record for worst record of any UFC fighter using TRT. He began the treatment before his fight against Melvin Guard at UFC 132. He lost that fight by knockout in the first round and both his next two fights. He didn't pick up another UFC win until he dropped the treatment against doctor's orders in the face of fan criticism. In his first fight after halting TRT, he beat John Alessio by decision at UFC 148.

All told that puts the UFC record for TRT at 15-17 (1 N/A). Even if the numbers are adjusted to include Henderson's Strikeforce fights and assume the UFC 152 TUE was for Belfort, the record barely improves to 18-19. While this sub-.500 record doesn't strengthen TRT opponents' argument against it's inclusion in MMA competition, fighters wouldn't be going through the hassle if they didn't feel it had benefits.

bloodyelbow.com
7/1/13 12:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Caught_clean
25 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/11/09
Posts: 3289
Tiresias - 

TRT is not helping compared to what?  How the fighters would have done without it?  But we don't know that... So the argument is complete nonsense.  How is that not obvious?


Because its a troll thread
7/1/13 1:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MickColins
120 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/14/08
Posts: 12155
But but but....peds! Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 1:44 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
danggook
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/11/12
Posts: 835
YourMomMadeMeTap - HOW DOES TODD DUFFEE NEED TRT?
How doesn't he? Phone Post
7/1/13 1:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Vikingknee
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/12
Posts: 206
Pitbull3744 - That's all well and good but here is the problem with Belfort, is his body has significantly changed since his "TRT" usage and that is what's so sketchy. Phone Post 3.0
Maybe his diet has also.. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 2:21 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheLuckyMilkMan
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/30/08
Posts: 1633
If it changes nothing then they don't need to be on it... Point is it changes everything. As was said... without it they would be deteriorating and probably become serial losers. UFC hasn't had the time or ability to build up names like the ones that are TRTing so they (ufc and the fighters) are happy to keep themselves kicking by whatever means. Also the lack of a big competitior like pride keeps other big names from gaining a record and recognition even though it is true that many had to go off roids to start fighting under a commission that checks for it. I would probably do it if I was them and it was legal but should it even be an option?
7/1/13 2:37 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
knuckleballs
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/07
Posts: 2892
Randy Couture was probably the pioneer for this shit, and he turned Team Quest onto it.

He even thanked his doctor after a win once.

Not having him on this list is a serious omission.
7/1/13 3:15 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
random_muppett
97 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/1/11
Posts: 6491
Tiresias -

TRT is not helping compared to what?  How the fighters would have done without it?  But we don't know that... So the argument is complete nonsense.  How is that not obvious?

Obvious sense is obvious. Or should be.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 4:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OnlyTheStrongSurvive
521 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/29/11
Posts: 16997
Tiresias -

TRT is not helping compared to what?  How the fighters would have done without it?  But we don't know that... So the argument is complete nonsense.  How is that not obvious?

Exactly. Phone Post
7/1/13 4:41 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chiron
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/14/07
Posts: 922
There are a lot of problems with just looking at the records of fighters on TRT to determine whether it helps or not.

Here are a couple:
* You're assuming the other fighter is not using a similar PED under the radar.

** It's obviously not the only factor to consider in a fight even if it give a fighter a boost and just because it may make a fighter better than he would be naturally, it still doesn't guarantee it will make him better than his opponent.

*** The very fact that so many athletes start and continue using it suggests that they are seeing positive results with it, whether real or placebo.
7/1/13 6:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bootsy Collins
146 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/26/07
Posts: 9167
Chiron - There are a lot of problems with just looking at the records of fighters on TRT to determine whether it helps or not.

Here are a couple:
* You're assuming the other fighter is not using a similar PED under the radar.

** It's obviously not the only factor to consider in a fight even if it give a fighter a boost and just because it may make a fighter better than he would be naturally, it still doesn't guarantee it will make him better than his opponent.

*** The very fact that so many athletes start and continue using it suggests that they are seeing positive results with it, whether real or placebo.

Do you honestly believe placebo effects come into this conversation?
7/1/13 6:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Devlin
73 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/16/07
Posts: 4301
Bootsy Collins -
Chiron - There are a lot of problems with just looking at the records of fighters on TRT to determine whether it helps or not.

Here are a couple:
* You're assuming the other fighter is not using a similar PED under the radar.

** It's obviously not the only factor to consider in a fight even if it give a fighter a boost and just because it may make a fighter better than he would be naturally, it still doesn't guarantee it will make him better than his opponent.

*** The very fact that so many athletes start and continue using it suggests that they are seeing positive results with it, whether real or placebo.

Do you honestly believe placebo effects come into this conversation?
yes it does, as it should when discussing all drug and treatment effectivness.

Anyone got any trt studies? (on phone atm) Phone Post
7/1/13 7:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Rabid Bunyip
176 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/10/12
Posts: 866
Comparing records is stupid.

You could fine fighters who DON'T use TRT with worse records. What would that tell you? Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 7:17 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FanToFighter
172 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/29/12
Posts: 1081
It's cuz Vitor has TRT and Jesus. Chael has TRT and a mouth. And Both recently have only lost to champions.

Dan Henderson, Todd Duffee, Frank Mir, and Forest don't receive nearly the controversy.

It's because Chael and Vitor have success and have something fans to hate them for.

I think if Bryan Carraway said he was on TRT he would be the most hated fighter on Earth! Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 7:26 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Devlin
73 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/16/07
Posts: 4302
Anyone have any info on when the fighters mentioned began trt? Phone Post
7/1/13 7:53 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Remorse
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/26/09
Posts: 22
Tiresias - 

TRT is not helping compared to what?  How the fighters would have done without it?  But we don't know that... So the argument is complete nonsense.  How is that not obvious?


^that

Though the article does answer the question nobody was asking, 'does TRT make you unbeatable?'
7/1/13 7:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
FanToFighter
172 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/29/12
Posts: 1084
Pitbull3744 - Chael and Vitor have success and Hendo doesn't lol at that logic. Yeah Chael is super successful in the cage lol. Phone Post 3.0
I didn't say Dan hasn't had success. I said he hasnt had not nearly the amount of controversy.

And Chael not successful? When you manage to fight nothing but champions and big pay days, co-host talk shows and major events, most consider that successful. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 8:41 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rockwell
47 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/8/10
Posts: 6471
It does help because without it they wouldn't be competing at all. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 8:50 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TRVSDKSN
25 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/22/10
Posts: 5251
Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 8:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Motivated Penn
66 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/18/11
Posts: 4438
Whoever wrote that needs to look into scientific method.
7/1/13 10:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimbonice
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/13/12
Posts: 889
Fighters wouldn't be using trt if it did not help. Phone Post
7/1/13 11:01 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CLINTK9
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/20/05
Posts: 8344
Belfort gets the heat because he's a christian and says it publicly. no other reason.
7/1/13 11:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Brian Littlefield
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/28/09
Posts: 304

Its not a comparison at all. Its just showing that TRT doesn't make you some super human unstoppable beast that most of you are claiming.  

7/1/13 11:52 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NastyNate420
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/20/10
Posts: 646
Brian Littlefield - 

Its not a comparison at all. Its just showing that TRT doesn't make you some super human unstoppable beast that most of you are claiming.  


That's exactly what this article was about. Damn, I'm definitely feeling the hate. I just thought it was a cool article looking at TRT from a different angle.
7/1/13 11:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sprawl'n'Stall
57 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 07/01/13 11:58 AM
Member Since: 7/10/02
Posts: 9829
LOL @ at all those TRT threads when so many fighters are using PEDs and timing it so to pass the fight day tests.

So seriously tested athletes such as Olympians and cyclists can beat 100s of tests and only get caught when admitting use years later, yet you poor souls still cling to the idea MMA fighters are clean since they are tested at fight time? Please.

TRT is like the new excuse if one gets caught much like the andro supplement McGuire was using in baseball back in the day. Or all the guys suddenly having asthma so they can take medications freely. Some of you really need to wake up!

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.