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UnderGround Forums >> UFC considers removing bonuses to pay for...


7/1/13 5:59 PM
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time traveling 12er
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CRMartin11 - 
i remember halloween - 

I think they should get rid of the win bonus and implement a finish bonus instead.


not a bad idea at all.

Someone who currently makes 50/50 could make 75 to show and 25 to finish the fight instead. That sounds like a great idea. Fighters get more money to show, but less bonus money and that bonus money is now harder to get, but anyone can get one. It's not like OTN bonuses where 1 person gets the submission of the night, 1 person gets the KO of the night etc.

I think that can already been done. If you look at some of the disclosed fight purses, lots of fighters have more guaranteed money in exchange for a lower win bonus. In fact I think Mark Hunt structured his last fight to have no win bonus or something crazy like that. But I'm guessing that would make a fighter go from 10k/10k to 12k/5k. Exchanging more guaranteed pay for less potential total pay.

I'm all for cutting the bonus pay for more guaranteed pay. As cool as it is, some times it seems a little unfair. You get a guy getting a huge bonus by virtue of being the only sub or ko of the night. Was that sub really worth 5x the work the other undercard fighter that just fought a three round war against a tougher opponent?
7/1/13 6:06 PM
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LILBROCK
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Phisher - 

Oh gimme a break. They can do both. It'd only be a couple hundred grand of extra expense for every card.


LOL this... like each show is so tight financially that they might not have an extra $200K.
7/1/13 6:11 PM
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danggook
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Jack Skellington -

yea cause Zuffa is SO strapped for cash they need to eliminate fight bonuses to be able to pay each lower end fighter a few extra dollars lol

I luv the UFC/Zuffa/Dana but dont piss down my back & tell me it's raining

Says the guy who knows fuck all about the fight game Phone Post
7/1/13 6:15 PM
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subwrassler
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Lahzerous - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

.


7/1/13 6:17 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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RedDragons - Do both. Lower the bonuses and pay the lower level fighters more.
This Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 6:17 PM
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Chromium
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epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


This. Extremely this. A cursory glance at their estimated revenue vs roster size, a very rough estimated number of employees, and typical payroll, and then compare all that to Major League Soccer, which is now turning a profit, and it's clear that the UFC is making money hand over fist right now.

I understand the UFC may be weary to make a truly standardized minimum salary should business go south again, but I think business has been solid enough for long enough that they can put a fairer concrete minimum without risking the farm, or much of anything really.

$8k + $8k minimum purse, $2500 automatic signing bonus on all contracts, $600 minimum monthly stipend to help a bit with longer periods of inactivity, the first $5k of training bonuses refunded every 6 months, a guarantee that sponsor taxes at least won't increase in the next five years, and a renegotiated health insurance group plan with more well-rounded coverage if they can get it. The last part is more feasible now that they have a proven 2-year track record.

This is a plan where the young people will still be "hungry" and the purse will be far and away the main source of income on all contracts (along with sponsors), but where very few fighters should have to get a second job to make ends meet, and it's not an expensive adjustment.

7/1/13 6:18 PM
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MMALOGIC
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Edited: 07/01/13 6:30 PM
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instead of 6 and 6.... it should be 8 and 3.  instead of 20 and 20 it should be 30 and 10... etc...    Get rid of all the bonuses, increase the show money to 3/4tths or at least 2/3rds of total pay and you'll dramatically improve the product.

New conracts, placements on cards, and matchmaking should be determined by performance.  If you're boring you get bad stylistic matchups, bad placements on the card, you get cut quicker, and if you make it to a new contract you dont get offered alot more..

this should be structure from the bottom:

show/win

8k/3k

15/5

30/10

60/20

80/30

120/40

180/60

Beyond this should be all show money... and then show money plus ppv.

Fighters should be able to work their way up that ladder...  instead of bonuses to reward great performance give them a new contract with more show money.

it doesnt have to be this rigid either... just keep the show money 3/4ths of total pay. 

 

7/1/13 6:24 PM
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time traveling 12er
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MMALOGIC - 

Ive been preaching this for a while now... in order to improve the product you have to get rid of the financial stress on the fighters... when more than 50% of your money (and sometimes up to 90%) is dependant on what transpires for 15 minutes in the octogan, fighters go into each fight with a massive amount of stress which hurts performance.

Ive been calling for the cancellation of the silly game show bonuses (fotn, sub of the night, ko of the night) and all the other discretionary bonuses and absorbing them into the show money.

SHow money needs to represent at least 2/3rds of a fighters pay and performance will improve dramatically.

if a guy like joe louzan is exciting you give him a new and bigger contract.  contracts are based on previous performances... you're next paycheck should be determined by what you've previously done not by what you're about to do in the next 15 minutes... that's ridiculous.

ZUffa's bonus system hurts the product because it's geared towards those who flourish in a boiler room situation like high stress sales.  less than 10% of the population is productive in such an environment. 

 


Not sure I agree with that. In any given sport the greatest of the great are driven by that stress. They thrive in that moment. Part of what fans love to see is that stress and chaos and watching their hero's triumph in the face of it. I don't think MMA fighters are wilting flowers that need to be coddled.
7/1/13 6:32 PM
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Kostakio
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Jack Skellington -

yea cause Zuffa is SO strapped for cash they need to eliminate fight bonuses to be able to pay each lower end fighter a few extra dollars lol

I luv the UFC/Zuffa/Dana but dont piss down my back & tell me it's raining

The Outlaw Josey Wales Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 6:33 PM
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MMALOGIC
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time traveling 12er - 
MMALOGIC - 

Ive been preaching this for a while now... in order to improve the product you have to get rid of the financial stress on the fighters... when more than 50% of your money (and sometimes up to 90%) is dependant on what transpires for 15 minutes in the octogan, fighters go into each fight with a massive amount of stress which hurts performance.

Ive been calling for the cancellation of the silly game show bonuses (fotn, sub of the night, ko of the night) and all the other discretionary bonuses and absorbing them into the show money.

SHow money needs to represent at least 2/3rds of a fighters pay and performance will improve dramatically.

if a guy like joe louzan is exciting you give him a new and bigger contract.  contracts are based on previous performances... you're next paycheck should be determined by what you've previously done not by what you're about to do in the next 15 minutes... that's ridiculous.

ZUffa's bonus system hurts the product because it's geared towards those who flourish in a boiler room situation like high stress sales.  less than 10% of the population is productive in such an environment. 

 


Not sure I agree with that. In any given sport the greatest of the great are driven by that stress. They thrive in that moment. Part of what fans love to see is that stress and chaos and watching their hero's triumph in the face of it. I don't think MMA fighters are wilting flowers that need to be coddled.

you're talking about physical stress...  Athletes train for that and that's what they are supposed to deal with.

Im talking about financial stress... these guys have no training for that and only hurts their performance.

7/1/13 6:48 PM
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Daddy Rorny Michael
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Are the Fertitta's trolling? Like this is an either/or proposition? For fucks sake, just brand all of the bonuses, eg: the Harley Davidson submission of the night, the Geico fight of the night. Make clips of those parts available on youtube so the brand logo is still visible.

Are these guys even really that great of businessmen? UFC has gotten a little bit bigger overtime, but it's still far from accepted by the mainstream. I haven't seen any tremendous business moves by the Fertittas to grow the sport.

Ban for Fertitta bashing!
7/1/13 6:48 PM
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IP
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The UFC's prestige rises with increased minimum fighter pay scale. It doesn't have to be excessive, but reasonable/respectable for the #1 company in the MMA business.
7/1/13 6:51 PM
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ManWithTheIronFists
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They could pay the lower level fighters more without even taking away nor lowering the bonus pay, but they're too greedy for that.
7/1/13 6:55 PM
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inf0
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this is just posturing, it's basically a..oh you fuckers don't like bonuses?!??!! wanna criticize pay??!?!

 

7/1/13 6:55 PM
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Steve4192
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Daddy Rorny Michael - Are the Fertitta's trolling? Like this is an either/or proposition? For fucks sake, just brand all of the bonuses, eg: the Harley Davidson submission of the night, the Geico fight of the night. Make clips of those parts available on youtube so the brand logo is still visible.

Are these guys even really that great of businessmen? UFC has gotten a little bit bigger overtime, but it's still far from accepted by the mainstream. I haven't seen any tremendous business moves by the Fertittas to grow the sport.

Ban for Fertitta bashing!

LOL

Bought the UFC for $2,000,000 thirteen years ago

Forbes currently values the company around $2,000,000,000

They must be doing something right.
7/1/13 6:55 PM
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Mr Sizzzz
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Zuffa should pay the fighters enough for the company to break even over the year. Put all these events on and deal with the headaches out of the goodness of their hearts. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 6:58 PM
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MMAtador
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Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.
LoL very true, UFC is a money machine advertisement alone they are making big money. To many suits and not enough fighters making that money. Phone Post
7/1/13 7:01 PM
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MMALOGIC
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^ that's completely different.  Divorce is not tied to baseball...  obviously divorce is not something you wanna think about so basbeall becomes a great escape.

you cant seperate your pay from your fight especially when more than 50% of it is determined by what transpires during the fight.

How do you think NFL, NBA or MLB players would perform if 50% of their next paycheck was determined by how they played their next game?  their performance would be dramatically hurt. 

7/1/13 7:04 PM
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luctaro
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mrwhipple - Well, apparently all the talk by Cholish, Volkmann, Fitch, Kennedy, and Quarry got to Zuffa. That's why I don't understand fans that told fighters to shut up and take it. If they kept their mouths shut do you think the UFC would be thinking of ways to stem this?


This isnt them giving new ideas that they are coming up because of Cholish, but simply anwering a question from a reporter about something Lorenzo an Dana have discussed in the past.

This isnt happening.
7/1/13 7:13 PM
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Gilbosh
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RicGillespie - Put all the bonus money into one big pool and split it up for every fighter on the card that has a finish.
This. Phone Post
7/1/13 7:14 PM
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thatcpjguy
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How many people in this thread run successful MMA businesses? Considering that no one here does, I would stfu about telling Dana and company how to spend their money. We have zero idea what they're making.

I prefer the performance based model they have now over getting rid of the bonuses. I don't care if the low level lay and prayers don't get paid alot. I've checked in lots of boxers and UFC fighters and ill tell you this even the obscure UFC guys look alot more secure financially than the low level top rank guys Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 7:20 PM
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luctaro
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mrwhipple - 
MMALOGIC - 

^ that's completely different.  Divorce is not tied to baseball...  obviously divorce is not something you wanna think about so basbeall becomes a great escape.

you cant seperate your pay from your fight especially when more than 50% of it is determined by what transpires during the fight.

How do you think NFL, NBA or MLB players would perform if 50% of their next paycheck was determined by how they played their next game?  their performance would be dramatically hurt. 


The point wasn't that divorce was tied to baseball its that they found the stress of going through a divorce adversely afffected players. If divorce can affect a player I would think the stress of not having a clue how much you were going to make any year would also have an affect. While the UFC or MLB can't control divorce, they can eliminate the stress that comes with not having a clue how much money you'll have come the day after a fight.

Im sorry buts its f*cking prizefighting. Go work in a spa if you want a stress free income.

The reality is some fights are worth 400k and some 150k, all from the same competitor. No fighters fight is worth the same every time.
7/1/13 7:24 PM
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Augustus Caesar
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Hmm, that is a pretty good idea. But I hope they can find a happy medium and do both, raise base pay and lower bonuses a little.

7/1/13 7:25 PM
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Doc T
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Man, that's the only thing stopping a lot of fighters from consistently playing it safe. Damn.. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 7:27 PM
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Lynchman
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epwar - 
luctaro - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


I suppose they can but this is no chump change. They put on 33 events, at their current 50K bonus, thats 6 mil 600k extra to share.

$6.6 million is chump change to a company that makes over $500 million in revenue.


Unless you have some idea as to the yearly expenses, don't make assumptions.

Dana recently said the Boston problem has been taken care of, the foreign fighters will be able to fight. The UFC has an office whose main job is to deal with visas, work papers and whatnot. The company employs 400 people, the majority of which are not $10 an hour people, they are highly skilled and often among the best at what they do.

Revenue does not equal profits.

Fighter pay should continue to improve, but I don't think the UFC has quite the profit level that some seem to think.

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