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UnderGround Forums >> UFC considers removing bonuses to pay for...


7/1/13 7:28 PM
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IIAces
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CRMartin11 - I understand it's a business and they got to make money, but an extra 200 K per event isn't that much. Especially because increasing fighter pay could attract better prospects, allow current fighters to be more comfortable and focus on training. I honesty think paying lower level fighters more will lead to getting better prospects and having them perform better. More money for lower level guys means more money to spend on training etc.
Allow better prospects??? I'm assuming every MMA fighter wants to be in the UFC. They can get any prospect they want now. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 7:33 PM
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Stageman
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One alternative would be to exempt the main event and co-main event from the bonuses (possibly even the whole main card). This would retain the merit based system, but also make it the bonuses more likely to reach the fighters who need it most. Also, we can all think of undercard fighters that got screwed out of a bonus they deserved to a main event.
7/1/13 7:34 PM
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FeardBucker
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epwar -
luctaro - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


I suppose they can but this is no chump change. They put on 33 events, at their current 50K bonus, thats 6 mil 600k extra to share.

$6.6 million is chump change to a company that makes over $500 million in revenue.

What's their net? You seem to know a lot about their finances.... What's their overhead for fighters, insurance, advertising, events, staff payroll, facilities, etc. No one knows because they are not publicly traded. It's easy to say they are a multi million dollar company but what is their net intake, I'm sure a lot less than 500 million a year..... The green bay packers net about 50 in revenue last year being the only publicly traded NFL team. Let's get real about what they actually make.... Phone Post
7/1/13 7:36 PM
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Vader03
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RedDragons - Do both. Lower the bonuses and pay the lower level fighters more.
Yes. I agree Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 7:36 PM
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abi
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7/1/13 7:40 PM
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Macedawgg
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Lynchman - 
epwar - 
luctaro - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


I suppose they can but this is no chump change. They put on 33 events, at their current 50K bonus, thats 6 mil 600k extra to share.

$6.6 million is chump change to a company that makes over $500 million in revenue.


Unless you have some idea as to the yearly expenses, don't make assumptions.

Dana recently said the Boston problem has been taken care of, the foreign fighters will be able to fight. The UFC has an office whose main job is to deal with visas, work papers and whatnot. The company employs 400 people, the majority of which are not $10 an hour people, they are highly skilled and often among the best at what they do.

Revenue does not equal profits.

Fighter pay should continue to improve, but I don't think the UFC has quite the profit level that some seem to think.

At $100,000 per employee (which is way high), you are at $40 million in employee costs. 

How much do you think the staff costs? 

We have a very good idea as to the revenue--they themselves state it is over $500 million. 

It is far from impossible to get a very good idea as to the other expenses as well. 

 

That said, this is a good move.  Pay should be guarantied base. 

7/1/13 7:57 PM
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forumnewb
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Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

7/1/13 8:01 PM
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Rob San Soo
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Didn't they get fox money ? There just raising the lower fighter pay not there top money making machines. They can find that kind of money , what a joke. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 8:05 PM
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GROUNDnLB
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I don't thinK having no bonuses will affect fighters mentality. Fighters know (almost) no one is exempt from being cut. UFC fighters are playing in the big leagues, they are not going to take it down a notch during their gifts because the UFC took bonuses away. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 8:17 PM
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Refuse to Lose
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Gilbosh -
RicGillespie - Put all the bonus money into one big pool and split it up for every fighter on the card that has a finish.
This. Phone Post
Good idea! Phone Post
7/1/13 8:35 PM
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BanjaCop
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SE555 -
BLAF's entirely at fault here because he is failing to motivate his fighters. He needs to share more inside stories like blowing 1 million cash on blackjack at the casino, or tipping a dealer 100,000 dollars, or buying one a new car, show more video of him flying his friend the tooth out to one of his three houses and riding brand new motorbikes, or show him sunning in his over sized illegal pool that is heated year round through what was it 3000 dollars per month, heck show the Ferttita brothers 30 million dollar beach houses in California. This surely will motivate his fighters to cut the boxes at Wal-Mart faster in between training, maybe ask for more hours, and feed their babies their diluted generic baby formula split between two, faster, in order to train more and harder.  To be just as successful as them.
This is someone that is NOT their own boss. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 8:38 PM
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time traveling 12er
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MMALOGIC - 
time traveling 12er - 
MMALOGIC - 

Ive been preaching this for a while now... in order to improve the product you have to get rid of the financial stress on the fighters... when more than 50% of your money (and sometimes up to 90%) is dependant on what transpires for 15 minutes in the octogan, fighters go into each fight with a massive amount of stress which hurts performance.

Ive been calling for the cancellation of the silly game show bonuses (fotn, sub of the night, ko of the night) and all the other discretionary bonuses and absorbing them into the show money.

SHow money needs to represent at least 2/3rds of a fighters pay and performance will improve dramatically.

if a guy like joe louzan is exciting you give him a new and bigger contract.  contracts are based on previous performances... you're next paycheck should be determined by what you've previously done not by what you're about to do in the next 15 minutes... that's ridiculous.

ZUffa's bonus system hurts the product because it's geared towards those who flourish in a boiler room situation like high stress sales.  less than 10% of the population is productive in such an environment. 

 


Not sure I agree with that. In any given sport the greatest of the great are driven by that stress. They thrive in that moment. Part of what fans love to see is that stress and chaos and watching their hero's triumph in the face of it. I don't think MMA fighters are wilting flowers that need to be coddled.

you're talking about physical stress...  Athletes train for that and that's what they are supposed to deal with.

Im talking about financial stress... these guys have no training for that and only hurts their performance.


Actually I was talking about emotional stress.

Even if that fight money is guaranteed, a loss significantly reduces the money of your next fight, so either way you've got the dreaded "financial stress" that is ruining fighters. Losing is not good and is bad for the bank account unless you have some Pride contract that pays you more for losing. So then do you guarantee the next fight pay as well? Why not just guarantee a lifetime contract so they never have to worry about that money?

Regardless, mo money = mo problems. When you don't have money it always feels like having more money will fix everything, but really it doesn't. Fitch made tons more than most people would ever make yet he complained about money. He ended up over extending himself and having to worry about being broke. Other fighters who have made significantly less have not come close to worrying about being broke. Financial stress comes from what you do with what you have. You don't budget assuming you win or assuming you get a OTN bonus and the stress doesn't exist.

This is just more coddling the fighters and protecting them from themselves because apparently they can't be trusted to do anything but fight. Fighters have negotiated for higher % of guaranteed pay. It happens all the time apparently. Why does the UFC need to make that decision for them and enforce a different ratio? Some guys might want to bet on themselves and double their pay for a win rather than getting a 10% win bonus and less guaranteed pay.

Life is stress. You can't protect the fighters from the world, someday they'll have to go out and face it themselves. Somehow I'm sure they'll manage given the amount of mental and physical fortitude it takes to get even decent at this sport, let alone at the top.
7/1/13 8:44 PM
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time traveling 12er
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SE555 - 
BLAF's entirely at fault here because he is failing to motivate his fighters. He needs to share more inside stories like blowing 1 million cash on blackjack at the casino, or tipping a dealer 100,000 dollars, or buying one a new car, show more video of him flying his friend the tooth out to one of his three houses and riding brand new motorbikes, or show him sunning in his over sized illegal pool that is heated year round through what was it 3000 dollars per month, heck show the Ferttita brothers 30 million dollar beach houses in California. This surely will motivate his fighters to cut the boxes at Wal-Mart faster in between training, maybe ask for more hours, and feed their babies their diluted generic baby formula split between two, faster, in order to train more and harder.  To be just as successful as them.

Yeah because I be these undercard fill-in fighters working at Walmart were a huge help to Zuffa back when they were losing millions a year on the sport. They surely deserve a large chunk of the money for putting MMA where it is. I mean Fertitta and White don't even fight! WTF! They should be in the ring wiping the mats down between rounds while the real warriors duke it out. John Fitch could barely afford the mortgage on his three houses by the time he was fired, and that guy basically MADE mma! This is all so backwards it's crazy.
7/1/13 8:46 PM
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MMALOGIC
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^ ofcourse there's always going to be stress... but why add any more?  If you took every company and changed their compensation structure to instant performance productivity would go way down.

if this compensation structure worked it would be used everywhere in some form... it doesnt work.   This structure works for a very small minority of the population... guys like Dana White.  Dana created a structure that would work for him not realizing most of the fighters do not fit this psycholigical profile.

The vast majority of fighters are blue collar.  Carwin is an engineer...  Chuck was an accountant.  Edgar worked for a plumber, other guys in construction, etc...  A very small minority were cold calling salesman, or in other high pressure sales positions or entrepreneurs.

Moreover, the fight night bonuses are very unproductive... you had just as many subs, ko's and fight of the nights in strikeforce, bellator, affliction, pro-elite, etc... and none of them had any kind of bonuses.

use that 200k productively and increase the show money.

7/1/13 8:53 PM
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Nuevo Haole
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I think they should do like 25K finish bonuses for everyone minus main event (since those guys normally get %)

25K to anyone that finishes a fight would end up being cose to the current bonus pay outs

 

7/1/13 8:56 PM
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rufus
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epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


You're very generous with somebody else's money.

7/1/13 9:11 PM
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LILBROCK
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Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

.

Any healthy business has certain margins they need to maintain so they can continue to reinvest into the growth of the business. Why do you think affliction, strikeforce, Bodog, IFL, etc... all went out of business? (among other things) Phone Post 3.0

Comparing Affliction, a company that had 2 total shows to the UFC, a company that has appreciated 1000% over 20 years? Ya, OK.

And Strikeforce went out of business?
7/1/13 9:14 PM
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jasonhightower
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RedDragons - Do both. Lower the bonuses and pay the lower level fighters more.

I like this best...

7/1/13 9:21 PM
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MMALOGIC
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nobones -  Hmmm hilarious how everyone here plays accountant. Do people even realize that Zuffa has a $400 million loan payment due this year? Phone Post

that loan has already been refinanced... it's due in 2020 now.

7/1/13 9:32 PM
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Macedawgg
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Edited: 07/01/13 9:32 PM
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MMALOGIC - 

^ ofcourse there's always going to be stress... but why add any more?  If you took every company and changed their compensation structure to instant performance productivity would go way down.

if this compensation structure worked it would be used everywhere in some form... it doesnt work.   This structure works for a very small minority of the population... guys like Dana White.  Dana created a structure that would work for him not realizing most of the fighters do not fit this psycholigical profile.

Moreover, the fight night bonuses are very unproductive... you had just as many subs, ko's and fight of the nights in strikeforce, bellator, affliction, pro-elite, etc... and none of them had any kind of bonuses.

use that 200k productively and increase the show money.

 

Logic is 100% correct. 

 

7/1/13 9:36 PM
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InvisibleControl
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They should just contract it as 8000 base, 16000 win, 24000 finish. That's a decent pay for an entry level if they win via stoppage. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 10:16 PM
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Macedawgg
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MMALOGIC - 
nobones -  Hmmm hilarious how everyone here plays accountant. Do people even realize that Zuffa has a $400 million loan payment due this year? Phone Post

that loan has already been refinanced... it's due in 2020 now.


Not to mention-the "loan" was used to fund distributions to the owners.  The vast majority of those funds were not operational. 

7/1/13 10:32 PM
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Mariooo1UP
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They aren't getting rid of bonuses. They are just trying to scare fighters into not complaining about fighter pay in public. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 10:36 PM
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IIAces
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Fighters get way more in locker room bonus than y'all think too. That's not disclosed to the public. So they may get a chunk of change for a finish already.

Ask the all the mainstream fighters now that make $$$ for the UFC(not the ones past their prime released from UFC with no chance for return) if they want Dana to take away all bonus money. OTN and locker room. But bet not one would open their mouth. Make money for Zuffa and you will make more money. Phone Post 3.0
7/1/13 10:37 PM
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I think they should pay bonuses to guys who go out and lay it on the line and try to finish the fight, and I think they should fine people who come out and play it safe.

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