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7/2/13 12:48 AM
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zFugitive
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If you don't think they can afford to throw in an extra 240k split for the undercard, you are out of your fkn mind. They made what? 90 million/year from the Fox deal alone? Nevermind their PPV intake, license fees, merch, or sponsors.

32 events at 240k extra is ~8 million a year extra for lower-level fighters.


Or how about this...instead of taking the OTN bonuses, how about DW stop gambling away hundreds of thousands, and instead give that to the fighters, you know, out of the kindness of his heart that he likes to always talk about.
7/2/13 12:56 AM
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Mike_in_CA
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Lets say the UFC does 500 million revenue. At best I would estimate they clear 3 percent profit after taxes. So let's call it 15 million in profit. Now take if they keep the bonuses and increase fighter pay by equal amount ... Say 6 million now we are looking at 9 million in profit. Phone Post
7/2/13 12:57 AM
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BUFFGEO
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Woah! This is a REALLY fuckin bad idea!!!
7/2/13 1:00 AM
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rufus
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mrwhipple - 
rufus - 
Macedawgg - 
MMALOGIC - 
nobones -  Hmmm hilarious how everyone here plays accountant. Do people even realize that Zuffa has a $400 million loan payment due this year? Phone Post

that loan has already been refinanced... it's due in 2020 now.


Not to mention-the "loan" was used to fund distributions to the owners.  The vast majority of those funds were not operational. 


How did you get access to Zuffa's internal financials?


S&P statement were released that detailed that most of their $325 million loan would be used to finance a special one time dividend payment. This was estimated to be $199 by Kelly Thompson. Another statement in 2009 detailed how they took a $100 million loan to refinance their revolving loan and pay out another special dividend estimated at $70 million by Moody's. That's $269 million and doesn't include their regular dividend payments or what they made when they sold 10% of the company to Flash.

Thanks

7/2/13 1:01 AM
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LILBROCK
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Mike_in_CA -  Lets say the UFC does 500 million revenue. At best I would estimate they clear 3 percent profit after taxes. So let's call it 15 million in profit. Now take if they keep the bonuses and increase fighter pay by equal amount ... Say 6 million now we are looking at 9 million in profit. Phone Post

You believe a company estimated at a worth of $2B to only net $15M a year in profit?

Completely unrelated, but the UG thinks they are going to pay Eddie ALvarez $1M per fight, so if he fights 3 times a year, they are expecting to shell out $20% of their annual profits for him.
7/2/13 1:15 AM
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Macedawgg
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rufus - 
mrwhipple - 
rufus - 
Macedawgg - 
MMALOGIC - 
nobones -  Hmmm hilarious how everyone here plays accountant. Do people even realize that Zuffa has a $400 million loan payment due this year? Phone Post

that loan has already been refinanced... it's due in 2020 now.


Not to mention-the "loan" was used to fund distributions to the owners.  The vast majority of those funds were not operational. 


How did you get access to Zuffa's internal financials?


S&P statement were released that detailed that most of their $325 million loan would be used to finance a special one time dividend payment. This was estimated to be $199 by Kelly Thompson. Another statement in 2009 detailed how they took a $100 million loan to refinance their revolving loan and pay out another special dividend estimated at $70 million by Moody's. That's $269 million and doesn't include their regular dividend payments or what they made when they sold 10% of the company to Flash.

Thanks


Yup, thanks Mr. Whipple--that is 100% correct. 

7/2/13 1:15 AM
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Brian McLaughlin
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Higher pay in place of bonuses would be amazing

7/2/13 1:17 AM
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Macedawgg
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LILBROCK - 
Mike_in_CA -  Lets say the UFC does 500 million revenue. At best I would estimate they clear 3 percent profit after taxes. So let's call it 15 million in profit. Now take if they keep the bonuses and increase fighter pay by equal amount ... Say 6 million now we are looking at 9 million in profit. Phone Post

You believe a company estimated at a worth of $2B to only net $15M a year in profit?

Completely unrelated, but the UG thinks they are going to pay Eddie ALvarez $1M per fight, so if he fights 3 times a year, they are expecting to shell out $20% of their annual profits for him.

LOL!

C'Mon Mike_in_CA--that's absurd. 

7/2/13 1:21 AM
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Mihow
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I usually side with business doing what it pleases but jesus lol @ this. Do both
7/2/13 1:39 AM
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ThunderDove
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Maybe bumping up the base pay (not win) of the undercard fighters could help them continue to train full time.

Like many others, I am concerned with this idea of eliminating bonuses altogether. If it happens, hopefully it won't take long for the UFC to recognize the increase in fights that went the distance and to snooze-ville!

Keep the bonuses for the PPV fighters. Phone Post
7/2/13 1:42 AM
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ThunderDove
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How about instead of three $50k bonuses, just one of the earlier mentioned "finish" bonuses worth $100k?
Everyone on the main card is eligible, no matter how you make the fight NOT go the distance. Phone Post
7/2/13 1:55 AM
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Mike_in_CA
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Macedawgg - 
LILBROCK - 
Mike_in_CA -  Lets say the UFC does 500 million revenue. At best I would estimate they clear 3 percent profit after taxes. So let's call it 15 million in profit. Now take if they keep the bonuses and increase fighter pay by equal amount ... Say 6 million now we are looking at 9 million in profit. Phone Post

You believe a company estimated at a worth of $2B to only net $15M a year in profit?

Completely unrelated, but the UG thinks they are going to pay Eddie ALvarez $1M per fight, so if he fights 3 times a year, they are expecting to shell out $20% of their annual profits for him.

LOL!

C'Mon Mike_in_CA--that's absurd. 


its not absurd..... when I say the they make 15 million a year in profit that is after operating expenses and after the executive pay themselves.

So when they have to pay more for fighter payroll it has to come from somewhere.... I don't think the Fertitta brothers and Dana Whit work for free.

Of course I could be way off base and talking out of my ass but I doubt the UFC is rolling in the money like everyone thinks.
7/2/13 1:56 AM
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jimbonice
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Dana and Lorenzo are just like Robin and Hood. Steal from the rich, and give to the poor. My, how magnanimous. Phone Post
7/2/13 2:16 AM
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CindyO
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I always enjoy the part where everyone assumes they know that the UFC can afford to do both.

What is the proof?

Affliction could do both! Pride could do both! Strikeforce could do both!

Funny thing is we know for a fact that Viacom can do both. They can also afford health insurance . Fuck I bet their entry level office staff gets health insurance. They pay less, they have no insurance, but the complaining fans only bug the UFC over pay somehow. At the same time they defend them over the Alvarez thing as "just business."

 

 

And VTFU;)

 

Cindy

7/2/13 2:19 AM
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CindyO
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mrwhipple - Well, apparently all the talk by Cholish, Volkmann, Fitch, Kennedy, and Quarry got to Zuffa. That's why I don't understand fans that told fighters to shut up and take it. If they kept their mouths shut do you think the UFC would be thinking of ways to stem this?

LOL@ anyone on that list having an ounce of influence!

 

Cindy

7/2/13 2:23 AM
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Smellde Gluve
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Get a sponsor to pay for the bonuses.

7/2/13 2:26 AM
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Mike_in_CA
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"The UFC is in the neighborhood of the major professional sports in terms of payout percentages compared to revenue generated in the same way as I am in the 'neighborhood' of challenging for Anderson Silva's middleweight title," Maysey said.

After examining pay-per-view numbers, live gate proceeds
and other revenue streams, Maysey estimates the UFC has annual revenues between $350 million and $450 million.

Yet the median per fight income for fighters remains low, between $17,000 and $23,000, figures he said he obtained from his many conversations with current fighters.


http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/UFCpay/ufc-fighters-say-low-pay-most-painful-hit-all
7/2/13 2:29 AM
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CindyO
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Lynchman - 
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luctaro - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


I suppose they can but this is no chump change. They put on 33 events, at their current 50K bonus, thats 6 mil 600k extra to share.

$6.6 million is chump change to a company that makes over $500 million in revenue.


Unless you have some idea as to the yearly expenses, don't make assumptions.

Dana recently said the Boston problem has been taken care of, the foreign fighters will be able to fight. The UFC has an office whose main job is to deal with visas, work papers and whatnot. The company employs 400 people, the majority of which are not $10 an hour people, they are highly skilled and often among the best at what they do.

Revenue does not equal profits.

Fighter pay should continue to improve, but I don't think the UFC has quite the profit level that some seem to think.

Lorenzo told me that when they do events around 1,000 people get checks and a lot goes into  planning an event from its inception, pre-promotion, press conferences, media, marketing, bout agreements, transportation, accommodations, travel, arena, etc, etc, etc. From start to finish its a beast. Would lllllllllllove for epwar to take a stab at estimating/giving a breakdown of event expenses instead of always preaching "rrrrrevenue, revenue, revenue" as if its profit:)

 

Cindy

7/2/13 2:36 AM
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CindyO
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Macedawgg - 
Lynchman - 
epwar - 
luctaro - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


I suppose they can but this is no chump change. They put on 33 events, at their current 50K bonus, thats 6 mil 600k extra to share.

$6.6 million is chump change to a company that makes over $500 million in revenue.


Unless you have some idea as to the yearly expenses, don't make assumptions.

Dana recently said the Boston problem has been taken care of, the foreign fighters will be able to fight. The UFC has an office whose main job is to deal with visas, work papers and whatnot. The company employs 400 people, the majority of which are not $10 an hour people, they are highly skilled and often among the best at what they do.

Revenue does not equal profits.

Fighter pay should continue to improve, but I don't think the UFC has quite the profit level that some seem to think.

At $100,000 per employee (which is way high), you are at $40 million in employee costs. 

How much do you think the staff costs? 

We have a very good idea as to the revenue--they themselves state it is over $500 million. 

It is far from impossible to get a very good idea as to the other expenses as well. 

 

That said, this is a good move.  Pay should be guarantied base. 


Mace, what are their expenses? Do you have a breakdown of what it cost to run this well oiled machine? That might help to determine what tney net. Maybe just even ONE event example? You pick the event and tell us how it all shakes out. These guesses aren't very effective, are they?

 

Cindy

7/2/13 2:41 AM
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Macedawgg
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Nah, not going to do your dance Cindy O.  Unless the data was signed by Dana and Lorenzo, you wouldn't accept it anyway, would you?

Yes, I have a very good idea. 

7/2/13 2:42 AM
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Macedawgg
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CindyO - 
time traveling 12er - 
ironyuppie - 
I always enjoy the part where everyone assumes they know that the UFC can afford to do both.

What is the proof?

Affliction could do both! Pride could do both! Strikeforce could do both!

Funny thing is we know for a fact that Viacom can do both. They can also afford health insurance . Fuck I bet their entry level office staff gets health insurance. They pay less, they have no insurance, but the complaining fans only bug the UFC over pay somehow. At the same time they defend them over the Alvarez thing as "just business."

 

 

And VTFU;)

 

Cindy


We do however have a very good idea what Bellator is making, don't we Cindy O? 

Is Bellator making money?

7/2/13 2:43 AM
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Macedawgg
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Mike_in_CA - "The UFC is in the neighborhood of the major professional sports in terms of payout percentages compared to revenue generated in the same way as I am in the 'neighborhood' of challenging for Anderson Silva's middleweight title," Maysey said.

After examining pay-per-view numbers, live gate proceeds
and other revenue streams, Maysey estimates the UFC has annual revenues between $350 million and $450 million.

Yet the median per fight income for fighters remains low, between $17,000 and $23,000, figures he said he obtained from his many conversations with current fighters.


http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/UFCpay/ufc-fighters-say-low-pay-most-painful-hit-all

Yup--those quotes, from memory, were given in July of 2011. 

Those figures have increased. 

7/2/13 2:44 AM
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CindyO
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Sliva_Plated_Fedor - Currently, watching the fighters ask if they won FOTN or KOTN bonus on Dana's vlogs is like watching starving dogs beg for scraps.

The UFC is making more than enough to leave the bonuses as is and increase base pay. If they weren't, they'd disclose the revenue Vs fighter pay figures instead of hiding behind "we're a private company" slogan.

Do you really think that if fighter pay was even remotely close to 50% of the take for an event Dana wouldn't be screaming it from the rooftops??? "Fuck you goof, we pay out X% of our revenue to fighters"

I would be astounded if fighter pay made up 20% of revenue for any event in the past 3 years. Zuffa could easily get an independent accounting firm in to calculate this and publish this without disclosing any other financial info. Phone Post 3.0

Viacom specifically got into the MMA business by buying majority ownership in Bellator so they could call the shots. How much can Viacom afford to pay THEIR athletes?

 

Cindy

7/2/13 2:48 AM
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CindyO
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Mike_in_CA - "The UFC is in the neighborhood of the major professional sports in terms of payout percentages compared to revenue generated in the same way as I am in the 'neighborhood' of challenging for Anderson Silva's middleweight title," Maysey said.

After examining pay-per-view numbers, live gate proceeds
and other revenue streams, Maysey estimates the UFC has annual revenues between $350 million and $450 million.

Yet the median per fight income for fighters remains low, between $17,000 and $23,000, figures he said he obtained from his many conversations with current fighters.


http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/UFCpay/ufc-fighters-say-low-pay-most-painful-hit-all

Would lllllove to see Mace's documentation of these figures and actual expenses instead of just "estimations" of revenue because we all know revenue generated is NOT profit.

 

Cindy

7/2/13 2:52 AM
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Macedawgg
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The figures have been reported in multiple sources Cindy O.  Go to google, type in "UFC $500 million" or "annual revenue" or "half a billion."  You will find them.  Chump sources like Fast Company, Bloomberg, Fortune--small fry like that. 

As to "profit"--ALL the other sports pay on gross figures Cindy-O--not net. 


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