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UnderGround Forums >> UFC considers removing bonuses to pay for...


7/2/13 6:46 AM
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Macedawgg
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Yup--of course it is. I'ma guess they post up, yet again, an incorrect version of the bill too. 

7/2/13 6:48 AM
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Macedawgg
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^^^

I think so too.

7/2/13 7:10 AM
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gw99
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lower level guys need to get paid better. Whatever it takes to make it happen.
7/2/13 8:55 AM
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Authority Figure
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UK Asylum - Not a bad idea, an extra $200,000 split between the fighters every event.

That's not what this means. There aint no "split". It's still bigger star, bigger pay - as it should be.

7/2/13 9:23 AM
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Whambo
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CindyO - 
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy


MMA isn't a perfect competition model, therefore the few companies (one in particular) hold a ton of power over the market place in terms of what they can charge and what they can pay employees.

The fact that you don't associate the UFC doing well with an incentive to increase the fighters pay should be told to every single fighter employed by Zuffa. Keep preaching it Cindy, and I want Dana to come on here and state he agrees with that because it's gonna get this sport unionized that much faster. This is why the big 4 sports unions fight tooth and nail for revenue sharing.

7/2/13 9:25 AM
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chaplinshouse
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he is the president of a company he is proud of.  you really can't compare your "by" decisions to dana white's.  

7/2/13 9:42 AM
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StratTone
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BanjaCop - 
SE555 -
BLAF's entirely at fault here because he is failing to motivate his fighters. He needs to share more inside stories like blowing 1 million cash on blackjack at the casino, or tipping a dealer 100,000 dollars, or buying one a new car, show more video of him flying his friend the tooth out to one of his three houses and riding brand new motorbikes, or show him sunning in his over sized illegal pool that is heated year round through what was it 3000 dollars per month, heck show the Ferttita brothers 30 million dollar beach houses in California. This surely will motivate his fighters to cut the boxes at Wal-Mart faster in between training, maybe ask for more hours, and feed their babies their diluted generic baby formula split between two, faster, in order to train more and harder.  To be just as successful as them.
This is someone that is NOT their own boss. Phone Post 3.0

Thats the entitled for yah

7/2/13 9:51 AM
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Cro_Core
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Since Dana stated that he and Lorenzo are giving away bonuses "from the heart" and something "they want to do", well then kind sir's keep paying bonuses since you like it so much, but also pay low tier fighters a bit more because if things stay this way in a few years they will run out of talent. Or to put it better this way, young athletes will definitely choose another career path because unlike other sports in my opinion being a fighter requires large amount of $$$ investment to get to the top. I'm not preaching some socialism but in order for sport to evolve, you also need to invest, and by invest i mean invest in one thing that drives this sport forward and those are - fighters. Period.
7/2/13 9:54 AM
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Don_Dada
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7/2/13 10:03 AM
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leifdawg
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epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


Whether they can or not, why should they have to?
7/2/13 10:07 AM
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leifdawg
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epwar - 
luctaro - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


I suppose they can but this is no chump change. They put on 33 events, at their current 50K bonus, thats 6 mil 600k extra to share.

$6.6 million is chump change to a company that makes over $500 million in revenue.


how much of that 500 million goes right back into the company
7/2/13 10:23 AM
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man meets fate
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leifdawg - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


Whether they can or not, why should they have to?

Ummm so people can live? If they didn't have to pay coaches and all that shit and have their sponsoring money yea they would be ok. These guys are not like dana and lorenzo and can afford a $25k steak.
7/2/13 10:37 AM
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MagSlim
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leifdawg - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


Whether they can or not, why should they have to?

They have to improve their product. There are guys that are working other jobs that interfere with their training. That's compromising the product they're putting out.

Half of the fighters - everyone on the undercard - barely makes a 'living wage' that allows them to only have one job. That's no way to treat your business investments if you have the money to allow them to cultivate their talent, rather than waste it by picking up a second job and wearing down their bodies they're supposed to be training for elite competition.

They need to keep the bonuses to keep the young guys super hungry, but they also need them to only have one job and feel secure enough to try something in their fight that may get a 'oh shit' but could cause them to lose.

If you want them to be 'free to entertain' then having to make your win money to eat = more boring fights. Same goes for throwing that wild spinning backfist - if you think it might cause you to lose and get cut early you don't throw it.

In that sense, the cuts before 3 UFC fights and the show money not being sustainable are creating behavior that is the opposite of what the UFC is trying to cultivate.
7/2/13 10:42 AM
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StratTone
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zFugitive - If you don't think they can afford to throw in an extra 240k split for the undercard, you are out of your fkn mind. They made what? 90 million/year from the Fox deal alone? Nevermind their PPV intake, license fees, merch, or sponsors.

32 events at 240k extra is ~8 million a year extra for lower-level fighters.


Or how about this...instead of taking the OTN bonuses, how about DW stop gambling away hundreds of thousands, and instead give that to the fighters, you know, out of the kindness of his heart that he likes to always talk about.

I do not understand this mentality.

7/2/13 10:50 AM
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Granpa
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epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


Yup. Greedy, bullshit, typical corporate move. They can easily afford to pay fighter bonuses and raise the pay of the lower tier fighters. We've seen the numbers Dana, you can't fool us you.
7/2/13 10:52 AM
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leifdawg
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Edited: 07/02/13 10:56 AM
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man meets fate - 
leifdawg - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.


This.  



Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


Whether they can or not, why should they have to?

Ummm so people can live? If they didn't have to pay coaches and all that shit and have their sponsoring money yea they would be ok. These guys are not like dana and lorenzo and can afford a $25k steak.

Fighters should not be on the bottom of the pay scale for more than a year (aprox 3 fights). If you haven't moved up the card by then, you probably never will and you're probably taking a lot of damage and should look at another career.

Not everyone can make a living as a professional fighter.
7/2/13 10:59 AM
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bryanand
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First of all, what a company is "worth" has dick to do with their revenue.

Second, what a company generates in revenue has dick to do with their net income. For example, I worked for a company that did 2 billion/year in revenues and went bankrupt.

7/2/13 11:06 AM
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Handsome Jack
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All My Holes Overflowing With Jones' CREam - Dana you can probably afford to do both bro..

I don't think Dana is a cheap dude at all, I don't think that Lorenzo is cheap at all either, I just think as businessmen they are extremely shrewd with a strong focus on maximizing profits during peak years.

The reality is that for the UFC to maintain sustained growth they need profit capital to finance venturing into other markets full bore.

The UFC has lots of behind the scenes employees they have to pay, they have marketing costs, being strategic with their finances is ultra important. Paying guys more simply because you can is absurd in a sense, I doubt I would be doing anything differently than Dana/Lorenzo.

As a friend/person Dana and Lorenzo are probably extremely generous and giving, as Zuffa suits it is their job to maximize profits.

As a consumer and UFC fan I genuinely trust that the right decision will be made here, it just far more complicated than people think to just hand guys more money it is not that easy.

Aaaaaaand from way out in left field, a rational, intelligent post by CRE. I'm honestly not sure whether or not he's trolling.
7/2/13 11:14 AM
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MagSlim
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GSP24 - Fight night bonuses changed Chris Lytle into an animal near the end of his career.

The PPV bonuses used to be around 65k or more, they're now 50k. That's $60k savings right there.

Keep the bonuses at 50k and raise beginner pay to 12k/12k. Phone Post 3.0

I really think it should be about 30k/10-15k.

If they lose three fights their take home pay would be roughly what someone with a decent corporate job makes after they pay out coaches and such. They could eat well, have one job, travel a bit to train.

Then pay them a little win money on top of that.
7/2/13 12:02 PM
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nostripewhite
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MagSlim -
GSP24 - Fight night bonuses changed Chris Lytle into an animal near the end of his career.

The PPV bonuses used to be around 65k or more, they're now 50k. That's $60k savings right there.

Keep the bonuses at 50k and raise beginner pay to 12k/12k. Phone Post 3.0

I really think it should be about 30k/10-15k.

If they lose three fights their take home pay would be roughly what someone with a decent corporate job makes after they pay out coaches and such. They could eat well, have one job, travel a bit to train.

Then pay them a little win money on top of that.
Just silly. Paying guys 30k in their UFC debut would fuck the payscale for the industry at large.

Guys main eventing small shows don't even get that.

You really think that won't have a negative effect on the industry? Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 12:14 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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Handsome Jack - 
All My Holes Overflowing With Jones' CREam - Dana you can probably afford to do both bro..

I don't think Dana is a cheap dude at all, I don't think that Lorenzo is cheap at all either, I just think as businessmen they are extremely shrewd with a strong focus on maximizing profits during peak years.

The reality is that for the UFC to maintain sustained growth they need profit capital to finance venturing into other markets full bore.

The UFC has lots of behind the scenes employees they have to pay, they have marketing costs, being strategic with their finances is ultra important. Paying guys more simply because you can is absurd in a sense, I doubt I would be doing anything differently than Dana/Lorenzo.

As a friend/person Dana and Lorenzo are probably extremely generous and giving, as Zuffa suits it is their job to maximize profits.

As a consumer and UFC fan I genuinely trust that the right decision will be made here, it just far more complicated than people think to just hand guys more money it is not that easy.

Aaaaaaand from way out in left field, a rational, intelligent post by CRE. I'm honestly not sure whether or not he's trolling.

This threw me off as well....
7/2/13 12:18 PM
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MagSlim
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nostripewhite - 
MagSlim -
GSP24 - Fight night bonuses changed Chris Lytle into an animal near the end of his career.

The PPV bonuses used to be around 65k or more, they're now 50k. That's $60k savings right there.

Keep the bonuses at 50k and raise beginner pay to 12k/12k. Phone Post 3.0

I really think it should be about 30k/10-15k.

If they lose three fights their take home pay would be roughly what someone with a decent corporate job makes after they pay out coaches and such. They could eat well, have one job, travel a bit to train.

Then pay them a little win money on top of that.
Just silly. Paying guys 30k in their UFC debut would fuck the payscale for the industry at large.

Guys main eventing small shows don't even get that.

You really think that won't have a negative effect on the industry? Phone Post 3.0

It would definitely shake things up, but I don't know what you mean by 'fuck' the industry.

Everyone would want to fight in the UFC, not local promotions. So they would lose out. UFC new comers would be getting more money than anyone else in the industry besides top tier fighters for the other big promotions. So what?

If the UFC can afford to do it, wouldn't it bring more talent into the octagon?

I'm saying 30 with 3 fights guaranteed too. I'd be a different paradigm for sure, where they take care of their investments, maybe have less fighters under contract, give them more guaranteed fights, spend more time promoting the small guys.

I don't know how this 'fucks' the industry.
7/2/13 12:20 PM
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tdunning
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I don't feel like going through 10 pages, so sorry if this has been addressed. Were they talking about win bonuses, FOTN/KOTN/SOTN bonuses, or locker room bonuses?
7/2/13 12:38 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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Class warfare.

Make the young fight with the old. The black fight with the white.

Make them fight each other rather than band together to fight us.

Keep them fighting each other and you will retain control.

It's simple. This move makes higher card guys pissed off at losing bonuses and instead of being mad at the boss they will be mad at the lower card guys who now get paid that money.

Smart move by Zuffa. Phone Post
7/2/13 1:10 PM
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BeatonHauff
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CindyO -
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy

Oh yeah, I forgot Bill Gates and and big name actors and actresses generated their wealth from having fighters under shitty contracts. Dana and the fertitas deserve to be very well compensated for how far they brought the sport and built it up from nothing, but greed is never good, ultimately the product will suffer. By your logic, it's all fine because the ufc is better then Bellator, who've already been proven to be a pretty shady company, good job. Phone Post

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