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UnderGround Forums >> UFC considers removing bonuses to pay for...


7/2/13 1:12 PM
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Tad Ghostal
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How about they just stop giving bonuses to guys that are already making 6 figures to show? I've always thought it's a little ridiculous when e.g. Anderson gets an extra $50K for KO of the night.
7/2/13 1:21 PM
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FeardBucker
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Sliva_Plated_Fedor - Currently, watching the fighters ask if they won FOTN or KOTN bonus on Dana's vlogs is like watching starving dogs beg for scraps.

The UFC is making more than enough to leave the bonuses as is and increase base pay. If they weren't, they'd disclose the revenue Vs fighter pay figures instead of hiding behind "we're a private company" slogan.

Do you really think that if fighter pay was even remotely close to 50% of the take for an event Dana wouldn't be screaming it from the rooftops??? "Fuck you goof, we pay out X% of our revenue to fighters"

I would be astounded if fighter pay made up 20% of revenue for any event in the past 3 years. Zuffa could easily get an independent accounting firm in to calculate this and publish this without disclosing any other financial info. Phone Post 3.0
You post your pay stubs and w-2 on the forum then you can have the tight to cry about someone else's. It's not your business. You have absolutely no right to their finances. Phone Post
7/2/13 1:22 PM
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FeardBucker
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man meets fate -
leifdawg - 
epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


Whether they can or not, why should they have to?

Ummm so people can live? If they didn't have to pay coaches and all that shit and have their sponsoring money yea they would be ok. These guys are not like dana and lorenzo and can afford a $25k steak.
They can choose a different profession as well.... Phone Post
7/2/13 1:24 PM
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random_muppett
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I wonder if they could afford to do both if everyone who stole PPVs actually paid for them?

$200k in bonuses, divided by $50 (to keep the math easy) is 40k.

Do you think 40,000 people steal PPVS? I think the number might be right. And I bet some of them are posting on this thread about how the UFC should 'do both'. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 1:34 PM
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StratTone
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random_muppett - I wonder if they could afford to do both if everyone who stole PPVs actually paid for them?

$200k in bonuses, divided by $50 (to keep the math easy) is 40k.

Do you think 40,000 people steal PPVS? I think the number might be right. And I bet some of them are posting on this thread about how the UFC should 'do both'. Phone Post 3.0

It wouldn't surprise me at all that someone is on here posting about how someone doesn't make what they think they should be "entitled" to while not providing any funds to make that happen.

7/2/13 1:34 PM
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IIAces
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BeatonHauff -
CindyO -
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy

Oh yeah, I forgot Bill Gates and and big name actors and actresses generated their wealth from having fighters under shitty contracts. Dana and the fertitas deserve to be very well compensated for how far they brought the sport and built it up from nothing, but greed is never good, ultimately the product will suffer. By your logic, it's all fine because the ufc is better then Bellator, who've already been proven to be a pretty shady company, good job. Phone Post
The ratio between min pay and star pay in those sports are way greater than MMA. MMA spreads their money fairer than mainstream sports.

MLB base pay for minors. A ball gets 30k, AA ball is 50k and you make AAA you get 90k. If you make the pros you get 400k min while Arod make 29million a year now that's a big difference between bottom and top pay.

It only took baseball 100 years to get that way. The first million dollar contract in baseball was in the 80s. Nolan Ryan to the Astros I believe was the first million dollar contract. That way 30 years ago.

And if your on prelims and FB cards you are a single a-AA player. You get paid shit and live in other people's houses. Make a main card you get 30-60k. Be a champion / contender you are in the majors. Events are sold by your name and popularity. So you make 100k. GSP got a 260k with win bonus last fight.

All the PPV points and bonuses are because your a star and earn them. UFC doesn't have to give those out. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 1:52 PM
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Haulport
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random_muppett - I wonder if they could afford to do both if everyone who stole PPVs actually paid for them?

$200k in bonuses, divided by $50 (to keep the math easy) is 40k.

Do you think 40,000 people steal PPVS? I think the number might be right. And I bet some of them are posting on this thread about how the UFC should 'do both'. Phone Post 3.0

not very good at math: 200k divided by 50 is 4000 not 40k.

Also, PPV revs for Zuffa are 50% of what customers pay. So it's probably an avg of $27

7/2/13 2:02 PM
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luctaro
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The Sultan -  They absolutely can afford to do both. No one said take away the bonuses. That's weak that they went that route.

The UFC isn doing well. They can afford to do both. Dana routinely tips waitresses 10K showing off. He blows money at the strip clubs balling out.

Why don't you look at your lower level guys and "ball out" with them?

Those bonuses help make your cards more exciting. If you increase fighter pay AND keep the bonuses, you can reasonably expect culture and happiness to improve within your organization while simultaneously making your cards more exciting.

Win win for ufc. Phone Post

Maybe they should strip for him in that strip club you mention????








I mean we DO have a female division......
7/2/13 2:20 PM
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whitejoe
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They cant do both? Lmfao brutal biz Phone Post
7/2/13 2:21 PM
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BeatonHauff
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IIAces -
BeatonHauff -
CindyO -
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy

Oh yeah, I forgot Bill Gates and and big name actors and actresses generated their wealth from having fighters under shitty contracts. Dana and the fertitas deserve to be very well compensated for how far they brought the sport and built it up from nothing, but greed is never good, ultimately the product will suffer. By your logic, it's all fine because the ufc is better then Bellator, who've already been proven to be a pretty shady company, good job. Phone Post
The ratio between min pay and star pay in those sports are way greater than MMA. MMA spreads their money fairer than mainstream sports.

MLB base pay for minors. A ball gets 30k, AA ball is 50k and you make AAA you get 90k. If you make the pros you get 400k min while Arod make 29million a year now that's a big difference between bottom and top pay.

It only took baseball 100 years to get that way. The first million dollar contract in baseball was in the 80s. Nolan Ryan to the Astros I believe was the first million dollar contract. That way 30 years ago.

And if your on prelims and FB cards you are a single a-AA player. You get paid shit and live in other people's houses. Make a main card you get 30-60k. Be a champion / contender you are in the majors. Events are sold by your name and popularity. So you make 100k. GSP got a 260k with win bonus last fight.

All the PPV points and bonuses are because your a star and earn them. UFC doesn't have to give those out. Phone Post 3.0
That's great and all, but the reason it took so long for baseball players to start making serious money is because 100 years ago, there was no TV, Internet, or ppvs, there's more money in sports now then ever. I get your point when you bring up AA and AAA, but that's what smaller mma organizations are. A lot of the casual fans have the misconception that if you're in the UFC your are making a decent living, which is the opposite for the majority of the fighters. The bottom line is greed, there's no doubt they can afford to pay a little more, or pay a percentage of the fighters camp or something, what can you do with 12000$(if you win) over a few months after training, management and living expenses? Not a whole lot. Phone Post
7/2/13 2:21 PM
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whitejoe
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KingofBJJ -
daba - 
CindyO -
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy

Your Bill Gates argument is terrible.

At companies like Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, etc. employees were rewarded when their companies exploded in growth. In some cases the lowest paid employees like office assistants became millionaires because they had shares and options in the company.

When those companies grew the employees shared in the wealth. Phone Post 3.0

I was going to reply to that blatantly ridiculous argument, but you beat me to it.

Lmfaoooo

UFC is hella cheap Cindy cmon. Phone Post
7/2/13 2:27 PM
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random_muppett
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Haulport -
random_muppett - I wonder if they could afford to do both if everyone who stole PPVs actually paid for them?

$200k in bonuses, divided by $50 (to keep the math easy) is 40k.

Do you think 40,000 people steal PPVS? I think the number might be right. And I bet some of them are posting on this thread about how the UFC should 'do both'. Phone Post 3.0

not very good at math: 200k divided by 50 is 4000 not 40k.

Also, PPV revs for Zuffa are 50% of what customers pay. So it's probably an avg of $27

Fair point on the maths. My bad. But it makes the stats even worse. 8k rather than 40k. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 2:37 PM
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IIAces
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BeatonHauff -
IIAces -
BeatonHauff -
CindyO -
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy

Oh yeah, I forgot Bill Gates and and big name actors and actresses generated their wealth from having fighters under shitty contracts. Dana and the fertitas deserve to be very well compensated for how far they brought the sport and built it up from nothing, but greed is never good, ultimately the product will suffer. By your logic, it's all fine because the ufc is better then Bellator, who've already been proven to be a pretty shady company, good job. Phone Post
The ratio between min pay and star pay in those sports are way greater than MMA. MMA spreads their money fairer than mainstream sports.

MLB base pay for minors. A ball gets 30k, AA ball is 50k and you make AAA you get 90k. If you make the pros you get 400k min while Arod make 29million a year now that's a big difference between bottom and top pay.

It only took baseball 100 years to get that way. The first million dollar contract in baseball was in the 80s. Nolan Ryan to the Astros I believe was the first million dollar contract. That way 30 years ago.

And if your on prelims and FB cards you are a single a-AA player. You get paid shit and live in other people's houses. Make a main card you get 30-60k. Be a champion / contender you are in the majors. Events are sold by your name and popularity. So you make 100k. GSP got a 260k with win bonus last fight.

All the PPV points and bonuses are because your a star and earn them. UFC doesn't have to give those out. Phone Post 3.0
That's great and all, but the reason it took so long for baseball players to start making serious money is because 100 years ago, there was no TV, Internet, or ppvs, there's more money in sports now then ever. I get your point when you bring up AA and AAA, but that's what smaller mma organizations are. A lot of the casual fans have the misconception that if you're in the UFC your are making a decent living, which is the opposite for the majority of the fighters. The bottom line is greed, there's no doubt they can afford to pay a little more, or pay a percentage of the fighters camp or something, what can you do with 12000$(if you win) over a few months after training, management and living expenses? Not a whole lot. Phone Post
Your wrong. Playing Australian ball or In Japan ect are like smaller MMA organizations. You make decent money there just like at bellator. Min pay may be a little lower but the big names make decent money. And you hope to get picked up by the MLB/UFC. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 2:55 PM
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willyboy
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Not sure if brought up yet, but, what about the guys that have been in a the ufc while and already have 15/15 contracts? Now some new kid starting out is making the same? Is that fair? So I guess they get a raise to 25/25? and the guys who already make 25/25 go up to 50/50?And on and on up the ladder. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 2:57 PM
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random_muppett
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Guys it easy....

Want th fighters paid more? Stop stealing PPVs Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 2:58 PM
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BeatonHauff
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IIAces -
BeatonHauff -
IIAces -
BeatonHauff -
CindyO -
BeatonHauff -  The worst players in any professional sports are making a decent living, I bet NFL kickers make more in a year then the top ufc fighters make in a year, and don't have nearly the amount of expenses. Is it even possible to make a living fighting for 12 grand every couple months after taxes, managers fees, gym fees? Imagine trying to plan for your future with no retirement or pension plan, and not being able to save money I'm not saying they can afford to do both, but when Dana brags about losing a million dollars in one night gambling, and you have lower level fighters that would never be able to get by without a second job, it makes the situation laughable, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues. And stop fucking bring up bellator, it's about the UFC. Phone Post

Should millionaire actors pay their staff substantially more than their peers doing the same thing make just because they can "afford" to? When Gates gets a fat check does he spread the wealth to his workers just because he is a nice guy, a baller and can afford to? Or do they get reg. raises that are inline with their peers? If I had to guess, I think his maid must be a millionaire by now with that logic.

EVERYONE wants to make more money. Just because your boss is a baller it doesn't mean he owes the same to his staff, especially when a contract outlining pay was agreed upon and signed by both parties.

As long as Zuffa is paying better than anyone else, offers better benefits and bonuses, provides insurance that none of their "competitors" do, as well as ensures an even playing field via drug testing 100% of their athletes, they are doing MORE (and better than ) than the rest so I don't see the heartburn, really. Wah!

 

Cindy

Oh yeah, I forgot Bill Gates and and big name actors and actresses generated their wealth from having fighters under shitty contracts. Dana and the fertitas deserve to be very well compensated for how far they brought the sport and built it up from nothing, but greed is never good, ultimately the product will suffer. By your logic, it's all fine because the ufc is better then Bellator, who've already been proven to be a pretty shady company, good job. Phone Post
The ratio between min pay and star pay in those sports are way greater than MMA. MMA spreads their money fairer than mainstream sports.

MLB base pay for minors. A ball gets 30k, AA ball is 50k and you make AAA you get 90k. If you make the pros you get 400k min while Arod make 29million a year now that's a big difference between bottom and top pay.

It only took baseball 100 years to get that way. The first million dollar contract in baseball was in the 80s. Nolan Ryan to the Astros I believe was the first million dollar contract. That way 30 years ago.

And if your on prelims and FB cards you are a single a-AA player. You get paid shit and live in other people's houses. Make a main card you get 30-60k. Be a champion / contender you are in the majors. Events are sold by your name and popularity. So you make 100k. GSP got a 260k with win bonus last fight.

All the PPV points and bonuses are because your a star and earn them. UFC doesn't have to give those out. Phone Post 3.0
That's great and all, but the reason it took so long for baseball players to start making serious money is because 100 years ago, there was no TV, Internet, or ppvs, there's more money in sports now then ever. I get your point when you bring up AA and AAA, but that's what smaller mma organizations are. A lot of the casual fans have the misconception that if you're in the UFC your are making a decent living, which is the opposite for the majority of the fighters. The bottom line is greed, there's no doubt they can afford to pay a little more, or pay a percentage of the fighters camp or something, what can you do with 12000$(if you win) over a few months after training, management and living expenses? Not a whole lot. Phone Post
Your wrong. Playing Australian ball or In Japan ect are like smaller MMA organizations. You make decent money there just like at bellator. Min pay may be a little lower but the big names make decent money. And you hope to get picked up by the MLB/UFC. Phone Post 3.0
That's my point, the UFC is suppose to be the big leagues, they should be able to pay enough to lower tier fighters to at least make a living and not have to get a second job, the minimum pay is too low for what these guys do. Phone Post
7/2/13 3:26 PM
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newjack900
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I would assume Bc the UFC has become such a global brand they are pulling in serious revenue. I think that's what is causing the confusion / unrest. We are constantly being reminded by Dana how huge the ufc has become yet the fighter pay hasn't seemed to have changed that drastically (at least at the bottom of cards). I don't think its a reach to think the fighters could be paid a little more while the bonuses remain.
7/2/13 3:37 PM
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Vikingknee
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Fertittas bros are billionaires right? If you make just 5% return on a billion dollars you are making 50 million a year. Or 137,000 a day. They could pay fighters on interest alone without tapping into anything business related with profits ect. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 3:53 PM
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Thacommish
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random_muppett - Guys it easy....

Want th fighters paid more? Stop stealing PPVs Phone Post 3.0

this is the answer! because we know all those low level fighters that got raises after ufc 100 sold over a million buys. Oh wait my bad that totally didnt happen
7/2/13 4:01 PM
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IIAces
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Vikingknee - Fertittas bros are billionaires right? If you make just 5% return on a billion dollars you are making 50 million a year. Or 137,000 a day. They could pay fighters on interest alone without tapping into anything business related with profits ect. Phone Post 3.0
Their casino business isn't tied to Zuffa. So their wealth has nothing to do with it. They have many business like Viacom. So tell bellator to bump their pay too since they are so fucking wealthy.

Zuffa doesn't gross $500 million a year like many think. That's currently what Zuffa is worth if they sold it. They don't make that yearly.

Either way it's privately owned so no one knows the real numbers. All the expenses for merchandise, payroll for employes (lawyers, people in the office ect.), fighter pay, production cost, venue and hotel rental, plus many many many other things. And they do this every event, besides the office stuff. It's not fucking cheap to put events on. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 4:06 PM
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smoogy
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If you read the comments Dana made it's pretty clear he is NOT in favor of giving lower fighter raises and is only talking about cutting performance bonuses as a scare tactic to change the conversation toward the trivial, as he tends to do. It's a really disingenuous way of addressing all the recent talk about fighter purses in UFC being so low.

Keep in mind that people like CindyO are 100% aware of this and continue to lard threads like this with her garbage talking points anyway. Once UFC is set on a message, people like her and MMALogic just seek to spread that message as much as they can, knowing what kind of stupifying effect it has on genuine debate.

7/2/13 4:10 PM
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IIAces
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newjack900 - I would assume Bc the UFC has become such a global brand they are pulling in serious revenue. I think that's what is causing the confusion / unrest. We are constantly being reminded by Dana how huge the ufc has become yet the fighter pay hasn't seemed to have changed that drastically (at least at the bottom of cards). I don't think its a reach to think the fighters could be paid a little more while the bonuses remain.
Many of the older stars we love to watch so much started at 3/3 I think. New fighters are starting out at 6/6. They have doubled it. The UFC was in the red when they bought it. It stayed there for a while and they invested a fuck load of money into it before it was a success and in the green. That took years to accomplish. So I think they compensate better as the sport grows as they have. Just like the NFL, NBA, and MLB have done. They aren't nearly the size or mainstream of those sports. Dana says they are the top level for their sport like the NFL, MLB, and NBA. But they aren't even close to the size, revenue ect as the main stream sports. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 4:12 PM
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Kneeblock
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I can't wait to read the rest of this thread later tonight, but all I'll say for now is this passive aggressive statement is a clear divide and conquer tactic and is the oldest management trick in the book.

7/2/13 4:25 PM
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lookoutawhale
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epwar - 
Wonkamaster - Like they can't afford to do both? Lol.

This.  

Dana & Lorenzo discussing doing this to look magnanimous.  The fact is they can easily do BOTH!    


+1

hehe UFC making themselves look like they are barely scraping by financially like some neighbourhood startup company.

there seriously needs to be a union in play here.

7/2/13 4:46 PM
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MITman2k
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Member Since: 8/28/02
Posts: 3213

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been posted already:

From Bloodyelbow citing more comments from dana about this:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/7/1/4485134/dana-white-increase-ufc-fighter-pay-but-no-more-f-ing-bonuses-mma-news

"

"You don't like the structure? All right, we'll pay the lower-level guys more money – no more f--king bonuses," Dana White said. "You guys come in, you negotiate your contracts, and we do away with all bonuses. That's what I'm thinking about doing."

"The bonuses are something we've been doing out of the kindness of our f--king heart," White said. "It was something we liked to do. Apparently, people don't like it. They want the lower-level guys to get paid more money."


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