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UnderGround Forums >> Silva: I Prefer Jones; GSP Is No Good


7/2/13 1:55 AM
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LILBROCK
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UGCTT_NKTKDace -  Ninja I just wanted to stop in and say you will never win arguing with some of these fools but watching them scramble and babble has been a small light to my really dark day

Rofl at calling Vera big Ahahaha and lilswock do homework before you flap it bro. Now how many fights at heavy for rashad before tuf??

He only brought it up about 110485839 times how he just hated fighting them big guys but when you get a chance for the show you do what you gotta.

Okay enough from me. Ninja, please ...back to tard stomping lmao ^5 Phone Post

"Rofl at calling Vera big"

Funny you should bring up Vera. I trained with him for about 1.5 years at City Boxing in downtown San Diego roughly 7-8 years ago. Have you been around him and if so, you think he is small? You know he's going back to HW his next UFC fight because it's a struggle for him to make LWH, right?
7/2/13 1:56 AM
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UGCTT_zackthewop
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LILBROCK -
Oontyex - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 

This!
There's a huge difference between eg Maia and marquar leaving the mw division to go ww after the champ beats them compared to eg chael and vitor vs bones or Bj and Serra vs gsp where a fighter from a lower weight class moved up weight to fight them.

Guys wanting to leave silva's division is in no way a hit against him Phone Post 3.0

WTF are you talking about? This discussion is about a fighter competing against a smaller opponent. Regardless of when the weight is cut, Anderson was fighting men who are capable of making WW, just like Jones fought guys capable of making MW. There is absolutely no difference at what point in time the weight was cut.

Fighters move weight classes and I have no issue with it at all, but if someone is going to say Jones fights MW, then they better be of the opinion that Anderson fights WW's and GSP fights LW's too.
By this logic is Anderson silva a welter weight since he did make that weight class before? Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 1:58 AM
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Oontyex
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LILBROCK -
Oontyex - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 

This!
There's a huge difference between eg Maia and marquar leaving the mw division to go ww after the champ beats them compared to eg chael and vitor vs bones or Bj and Serra vs gsp where a fighter from a lower weight class moved up weight to fight them.

Guys wanting to leave silva's division is in no way a hit against him Phone Post 3.0

WTF are you talking about? This discussion is about a fighter competing against a smaller opponent. Regardless of when the weight is cut, Anderson was fighting men who are capable of making WW, just like Jones fought guys capable of making MW. There is absolutely no difference at what point in time the weight was cut.

Fighters move weight classes and I have no issue with it at all, but if someone is going to say Jones fights MW, then they better be of the opinion that Anderson fights WW's and GSP fights LW's too.
The difference is this;
Fighters generally change some size throughout their career, fighter X during a period of fighting at eg mw will be bigger than when they are during a period of fighting at ww.
If the fighter is in a period of fighter at ww and moves up to fight at mw, it seems reasonable to expect that their size would be closer to their ww size, or at least not a full mw size.

Conversely a fighter who had been consistently fighting at mw but then decides to drop down to ww would need to find a way to reduce their size to make the new restrictions. I.e they would have been at full mw size before dropping but would need to find a way to reduce size later to accommodate the lower limit. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 2:03 AM
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LILBROCK
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UGCTT_zackthewop - 
LILBROCK -
Oontyex - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 

This!
There's a huge difference between eg Maia and marquar leaving the mw division to go ww after the champ beats them compared to eg chael and vitor vs bones or Bj and Serra vs gsp where a fighter from a lower weight class moved up weight to fight them.

Guys wanting to leave silva's division is in no way a hit against him Phone Post 3.0

WTF are you talking about? This discussion is about a fighter competing against a smaller opponent. Regardless of when the weight is cut, Anderson was fighting men who are capable of making WW, just like Jones fought guys capable of making MW. There is absolutely no difference at what point in time the weight was cut.

Fighters move weight classes and I have no issue with it at all, but if someone is going to say Jones fights MW, then they better be of the opinion that Anderson fights WW's and GSP fights LW's too.
By this logic is Anderson silva a welter weight since he did make that weight class before? Phone Post 3.0

You're asking if he IS a WW? Not sure. He says he could still make it but I don't know. His body is completely different than is was 8 years ago. There is a difference between someone like Vitor, Franklin, Wand, or Chael who can realistically fight at either weight class, fighters like Marquardt, Maia, or Cote who can drop to WW and compete, and a guy who fought at a weight class nearly a decade ago. For instance, I wouldn't consider Overeem a LHW any longer.
7/2/13 2:05 AM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
Oontyex - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 

This!
There's a huge difference between eg Maia and marquar leaving the mw division to go ww after the champ beats them compared to eg chael and vitor vs bones or Bj and Serra vs gsp where a fighter from a lower weight class moved up weight to fight them.

Guys wanting to leave silva's division is in no way a hit against him Phone Post 3.0

You mention guys who bounce around weight classes when you talk about guys "moving up" as if they haven't already fought at both weight classes. So if Vitor moves down to 185 after a ton of fights at 205, and fights a few times at 185, then goes to 205 to fight Jones he is actually "moving up" ? As if he had no fights at 205? Can say the same thing in regards to BJ and Chael and Serra.

When you show me a guy who has never fought at a weight class then we can say he "moved up" otherwise he is just a fighter who bounces weight classes.

Well what we can say is that Anderson is the only champion of the three to actually move UP a weight class and fight opponents at that weight class above. 

Jones has only ever fought at LHW

GSP has only ever fought at WW

Silva floated into a third division after being #1 in the two that best fit his size at the time. 


Anderson was older than GSP and Jones before he had his first fight at LHW so it's a moot point. We can't make career comparisons like that when we are talking about an ancient fighter in mma years vs younger guys. He developed into a MW so he doesn't get some type of extra credit for moving from ww to mw, he has turned into 1 of the bigger MWs so surely this is where he belongs and is the healthy weight for him.

Also, 2 of those fights were against Irvin and Bonnar, I just don't see a scenario where GSP can leave the SEC conference to move up and fight a guy who isn't in the top 10. He would instantly be facing the top guy in the division and this isn't really a fair comparison is it? Surely you can be a little bit objective, even when it comes to Anderson Silva
7/2/13 2:16 AM
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UGCTT_ScarecrowRio
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - 
Oontyex - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Samoa - Oh, I see says the blind man. I fucked that up. I didn't understand who you were talking about. My bad. Phone Post 3.0

You didn't fuck it up, he just used very incorrect language. Anderson's opponents moved down AFTER they fought, where GSP and Jones' opponents were fighters "from" the division below. 

This!
There's a huge difference between eg Maia and marquar leaving the mw division to go ww after the champ beats them compared to eg chael and vitor vs bones or Bj and Serra vs gsp where a fighter from a lower weight class moved up weight to fight them.

Guys wanting to leave silva's division is in no way a hit against him Phone Post 3.0

You mention guys who bounce around weight classes when you talk about guys "moving up" as if they haven't already fought at both weight classes. So if Vitor moves down to 185 after a ton of fights at 205, and fights a few times at 185, then goes to 205 to fight Jones he is actually "moving up" ? As if he had no fights at 205? Can say the same thing in regards to BJ and Chael and Serra.

When you show me a guy who has never fought at a weight class then we can say he "moved up" otherwise he is just a fighter who bounces weight classes.

Well what we can say is that Anderson is the only champion of the three to actually move UP a weight class and fight opponents at that weight class above. 

Jones has only ever fought at LHW

GSP has only ever fought at WW

Silva floated into a third division after being #1 in the two that best fit his size at the time. 


Anderson was older than GSP and Jones before he had his first fight at LHW so it's a moot point. We can't make career comparisons like that when we are talking about an ancient fighter in mma years vs younger guys. He developed into a MW so he doesn't get some type of extra credit for moving from ww to mw, he has turned into 1 of the bigger MWs so surely this is where he belongs and is the healthy weight for him.

Also, 2 of those fights were against Irvin and Bonnar, I just don't see a scenario where GSP can leave the SEC conference to move up and fight a guy who isn't in the top 10. He would instantly be facing the top guy in the division and this isn't really a fair comparison is it? Surely you can be a little bit objective, even when it comes to Anderson Silva

Fair point right here. Would be similar if GSP moved up and fought Leben or Lombard, then went on and fought former champion Franklin. But his first would be Anderson, which is not only the champion, but another P4P ranked fighter.

The weightclasses are so vastly different, hard to pinpoint an exact comparrison, so I am sorry if relating Irvin, Bonnar and Griffin to the fighters listed above is not on point.

7/2/13 5:48 AM
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ShowtimeWreckedMyLeever
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Big gsp fan here. But I honestly don't see him breaking Andy's record. Infarct I could see him lose/retire very soon. That knee injury was very very serious and I think he looked like a shell of himself vs condit and dial since coming back. I'd be curious to see how many more fights he actually has left in him. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 6:58 AM
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Leck Brosnar
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ShowtimeWreckedMyLeever - Big gsp fan here. But I honestly don't see him breaking Andy's record. Infarct I could see him lose/retire very soon. That knee injury was very very serious and I think he looked like a shell of himself vs condit and dial since coming back. I'd be curious to see how many more fights he actually has left in him. Phone Post 3.0

Wat, he looked awesome against a prime Condit and was coming straight back from what, a 1,5 year layoff? Dominated Diaz like he was a white belt, while apparently sick. I don't think GSP has slowed down at all.
7/2/13 7:06 AM
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malryan
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Wow! These threads get real stupid, real quick. Why can't you just accept that Jones, Anderson and GSP are all P4P greats, and speculating on them potentially fighting each other and and making up hypotheticals as to why one is better than the other is about as retarded as it gets. If the fights ever get announced then we will obviously get some answers, until then just focus on their accomplishments and the fights that will be happening.
Talking shit on the GOATs is completely disrespectful and makes us all stupider for having read this bullshit. Phone Post 3.0
7/2/13 7:13 AM
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Motivated Penn
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I think GSP and Anderson Silva are very concerned about their legacy. They know how quickly you go from being considered an all time great to dropping off that list completely. One loss is all it takes.

So from a rational perspective, I understand their hesitance to fight the champion in the higher weight class.

However, I would give massive respect to whoever does decide to roll the dice, go up and risk being humiliated.

Case in point:

BJ Penn. If he'd have done what GSP did, what Anderson did, and just kept crushing guys at LW, instead of constantly take on bigger, younger guys, nobody would doubt his status as a legend. Now, a lot of people do, they give no credit to fighters taking on bigger guys, what matters is the length of your win streak, unfortunately.
7/2/13 8:37 AM
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eljamaiquino
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun -
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK - 
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
LILBROCK - Shocker he'd say that. Considering he's the one champ in the UFC who has fought the most opponents from a weight class below, I'd think he'd want another WW under his belt.
He's also the champ that's fought the most guys a weight class above Phone Post

100%... I like Anderson. It's just funny how LnP never fails to mention Jones' "massive size advantage" and how much GSP weighs but always somehow neglects to point out how 3 of Anderson's title defenses are against current WW's. That's more title defenses than any other UFC champ in history, including Jones and GSP.

 

Relative to his total title defenses, that is actually a lower PERCENTAGE of opponents who were from a class below compared to both of them having two....

 

So you basically are trying to shit on Anderson for having more title defenses then both of them???

 

Lets also not forget GSP LOST one of those fights....OOPS. 

 

 

Try a different angle, as that one is a massive failure.


What are the odds that GSP won't blow his title defense record out of the window when he is 7 years older or Jones when he is 13-14 years older. When Silva was 32 he was getting flying heel hooked and was not on anyones pound for pound list, he was just seen as a good fighter with potential

Gsp probably will retire within 18 months of Anderson. He's said as much that he's on the last few years of his career. GSP has maybe 3 more years on the outside.... Phone Post
7/2/13 8:56 AM
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sitchpack
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun - Calling out someone from a lower weight class and saying he is no good at the same time. Nuff said

clearly didnt watch the video

7/2/13 9:33 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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LILBROCK -
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 

 

Let's rephrase for Jones for a moment to actually drive hom my main point:

How many opponents of Jones would you actually HONESTLY consider bigger than he was in the cage?


Prob quite a few considering he really didn't cut weight and guys like Bader, Vera, Chael, Rampage, Bonnar, etc.. are all pretty big. No way of knowing though considering they don't weigh in on fight night.

"In the past, one of Rashad's main advantages over me was that he was more seasoned and a lot more stronger than I was. When I first joined the UFC, I never really cut weight, I came in extremely thin. Walking around at 213, 210. Now I walk around at almost 230 at times."

 

Vera/Bonnar are the only guy on that list that I would consider the beggining of his UFC career, and Vera is a stretch. 

 

Jones himself said he was 226 in the cage for the fight against the Janitor, so clearly he meant VERY early in his UFC career. 


OK so Jones has said he weighed around 205 in the cage, 218 in the cage, and according to you, 226 in the cage. Yet, every time I see you post on the topic, you claim he is 226 on fight night. Of course you take the highest extreme possible and always claim that as fact. If you're taking his opinion, why not use the lower extreme?
Because as you pilointed out, he only said he barely cut any weight in the very beggining of his career in the ufc.

He is a young kid, who has clearly gotten bigger and bigger. This is obvious. None of it is according to me, its according Jones. He himself said 224 for rashad and 226 for the janitor. 218 for shogun. He himself says he doesn't know how much longer he can stay at lhw. Phone Post
7/2/13 9:37 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Motivated Penn - I think GSP and Anderson Silva are very concerned about their legacy. They know how quickly you go from being considered an all time great to dropping off that list completely. One loss is all it takes.

So from a rational perspective, I understand their hesitance to fight the champion in the higher weight class.

However, I would give massive respect to whoever does decide to roll the dice, go up and risk being humiliated.

Case in point:

BJ Penn. If he'd have done what GSP did, what Anderson did, and just kept crushing guys at LW, instead of constantly take on bigger, younger guys, nobody would doubt his status as a legend. Now, a lot of people do, they give no credit to fighters taking on bigger guys, what matters is the length of your win streak, unfortunately.
Jones is concerned about his legacy as well. He directly said as much in a recent quote I posted.

The difference is that Andy and Jones are willing to do it...:-) Phone Post
7/2/13 9:46 AM
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orcus
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LILBROCK - Shocker he'd say that. Considering he's the one champ in the UFC who has fought the most opponents from a weight class below, I'd think he'd want another WW under his belt.

So when guys realize they don't have a hope in hell of ever winning a title in Anderson's division and instead drop down to make a run for GSP's, that's somehow a knock on Anderson?

7/2/13 9:48 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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onandon - Video has been removed?!
Why would ESPN do that? Odd.... Phone Post
7/2/13 9:59 AM
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LILBROCK
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orcus - 
LILBROCK - Shocker he'd say that. Considering he's the one champ in the UFC who has fought the most opponents from a weight class below, I'd think he'd want another WW under his belt.

So when guys realize they don't have a hope in hell of ever winning a title in Anderson's division and instead drop down to make a run for GSP's, that's somehow a knock on Anderson?


When Shogun and Lyoto turn down title shots but Vitor and Sonnen are willing to step up it's a knock against Jones?
7/2/13 10:04 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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LILBROCK -
orcus - 
LILBROCK - Shocker he'd say that. Considering he's the one champ in the UFC who has fought the most opponents from a weight class below, I'd think he'd want another WW under his belt.

So when guys realize they don't have a hope in hell of ever winning a title in Anderson's division and instead drop down to make a run for GSP's, that's somehow a knock on Anderson?


When Shogun and Lyoto turn down title shots but Vitor and Sonnen are willing to step up it's a knock against Jones?
Its not, and it shouldn't be. Just remember who started stressing that certain opponents of champions have changed weight classes....

The reality you cannot seem to come to grips with:
Jones is NEVER at a size disadvantage lately. Ever.

Anderson and GSP have recently fought competition that are larger than they are. Jones never will unless he moves up to HW. Phone Post
7/2/13 10:21 AM
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Phil999
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
7/2/13 10:22 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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Phil999 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Just to clarify for people who will post without watching, he meant a fight with GSP is no good.

And thanks Ninja Phone Post


so the thread title is misleading?
Yes. I channeled my inner UGBlog. Phone Post
7/2/13 10:28 AM
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LILBROCK
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It sure as shit wasn't me who brought it up. UG has been saying all Jones does is fight MW's, and then of course they want him to fight Hendo and after he'd win, they'd say all he does is fight MW's.

Regarding him NEVER fighting anyone bigger, that's your opinion. Unless you're going to show me the in cage weight of him and his opponents for every single UFC fight, you're talking out your ass, as usual.

Like I said, you are so transparent. The heaviest you've ever heard Jones say he was on fight night was 226 back in 2010. Even though you admit he was 218 in 2011 against Shogun, which weight do you ALWAYS bring up? In every single Jones or Anderson weight related thread, what do you claim his weight to be? It's 226 every single time when we know he's claimed to be 205ish, 218, and 224. You'll only use the older weight and most extreme example so you can try and hammer your point home instead of being somewhat objective. What do you claim GSP's weight to be? The highest you've ever heard it on one extreme example which is around 193-195. You'll never use his lower confirmations. It's like the only way you know how to be an Anderson fan is to try and shit on and minimize the accomplishments of every other fighter that may be a threat to him.
7/2/13 10:31 AM
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LILBROCK
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Stephen Holder - Unless Jones somehow loses every fight from this point on, I think its pretty safe to say he will have an amazing mma career legacy when its all said and done.

Theres pretty much nothing Silva can do at this point to ruin his already established/confimred legacy as an elite fighter which could aguably even surpass that of Fedor.

GSP will not be remembered beyond even a few years of his last fight when he hangs up his gloves. It will be like he never existed. That might be a harsh thing to say about the guy but its just the truth.

If you dont believe me, ask the guys who produce the commercials/hype vids for the ufc.


I like Anderson and Jones more than GSP but this is not true. GSP draws more than any other champ in UFC history (other than Lesnar) and while many on the UG think he's boring, he has a ton of fans. I believe he's averaged 800K+ PPV buys since 2008 or something like that. Pretty insane numbers and no one else is even close.
7/2/13 10:45 AM
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UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA
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LILBROCK - It sure as shit wasn't me who brought it up. UG has been saying all Jones does is fight MW's, and then of course they want him to fight Hendo and after he'd win, they'd say all he does is fight MW's.

Regarding him NEVER fighting anyone bigger, that's your opinion. Unless you're going to show me the in cage weight of him and his opponents for every single UFC fight, you're talking out your ass, as usual.

Like I said, you are so transparent. The heaviest you've ever heard Jones say he was on fight night was 226 back in 2010. Even though you admit he was 218 in 2011 against Shogun, which weight do you ALWAYS bring up? In every single Jones or Anderson weight related thread, what do you claim his weight to be? It's 226 every single time when we know he's claimed to be 205ish, 218, and 224. You'll only use the older weight and most extreme example so you can try and hammer your point home instead of being somewhat objective. What do you claim GSP's weight to be? The highest you've ever heard it on one extreme example which is around 193-195. You'll never use his lower confirmations. It's like the only way you know how to be an Anderson fan is to try and shit on and minimize the accomplishments of every other fighter that may be a threat to him.
Um....you brought it up first in THIS thread iirc. So yeah.

I, much like you, usually talk about Jones being 220-225.

There is no opinion in me saying Jones has never faced a bigger opponent than he is lately. I am not just talking about weight. Please name ANY opponent since he was fighting for his belt who was even remotely close in overall size. Was it 5'11" rashad who gave up almost a foot of reach?

It is reality that Jones is bigger overall then everyone he has fought in the past 2-3 years, not opinion. You just don't like it because you think anyone who points it out is trying to say Jones sucks and only wins because he is big, which is grossly inaccurate. Phone Post
7/2/13 11:00 AM
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LILBROCK
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So now height and reach are the end all be all when it comes to size? Fun little fact for you. The UFC uses weight classes and we don't know what fighters weigh on fight night. They do not use height classes nor arm length classes.

If height is such an advantage, why don't you bring up Anderson? You do know that he has never faced a MW in the UFC taller than him and that Lutter was the only one who matched him at 6'2", right? He has been taller than Leben and every single title defense in the UFC. Why don't you ever bring that up?
7/2/13 11:04 AM
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LILBROCK
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"I, much like you, usually talk about Jones being 220-225."

No you don't and you know it. Don't start lying now. You say he's 226 or 224-226 because you'll only use the highest extreme. And thanks for not denying it when it comes to GSP. You know you always claim he's in the 190's as well.

Regarding Jones, his most recent examples are 218 and 224, correct? Why not take the average and say he's 221 on average from here on out? Or take all 4 weights of 205, 218, 224, and 226 and say he's 218 on average? Sure 205 is way back but so is the 226 example so if you're taking one out, might as well remove the other.

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